Autopsy Cats lose their way in 18 points loss to Saints

[Hinkley29]

Looking at the whole season is what the ladder is all about.
What is your honest own perception of where we stand in the 8 as it is now?
Do you believe we are well enough equipped to beat any of those teams in the next few weeks?
I'm not saying we can't, and am reacting to yesterday. Hence the question about next week.

We would be underdogs in all games against the other top 4 teams away from home, but not huge underdogs.

Think 2.40 vs 1.50.

Maybe a bit closer against Sydney and GWS, a bit more pronounced against port in Adelaide.

We would be longer odds against the bulldogs, but they are just as likely to get bounced in round 1 as they are as getting to play us.

If we play Brisbane it will be at mcg, and we would be even money in that game.

Against Hawthorn we would be slight favourites, we have beaten them twice handily this year.

Against Carlton and freo we would warm favourites.

 

[Hinkley29]

First half centre bounce and Danger was flying. Now it might have been just me but second half I couldn’t see him there to take or fight for centre possession. Did they make some move to prevent it, or was he off the ground a lot? I don’t have access to replay this week (in apathetic afl Sydney) so can’t tell why they cruised it out of midfield repeatedly. Such a turnaround mystery.

My working theory is that the intense freo game in warm weather and a long trip back from WA cooked us for this week.

Before we ran out of gas we were a class above. It was really noticeable to me that we couldn’t raise a gallop from about 5 mins into the third qtr. that could only be because of the effects of last weeks game.

 

[Play it Sam]

My working theory is that the intense freo game in warm weather and a long trip back from WA cooked us for this week.

Before we ran out of gas we were a class above. It was really noticeable to me that we couldn’t raise a gallop from about 5 mins into the third qtr. that could only be because of the effects of last weeks game.

Some commentator said at half time the score didn't feel reflective of STK effort- and it's true that they took time to settle and some of our goals were flukey. Just the same, a good start.
So as it turned out they were better and fitter, easier able to adjust than we gave credit for - except for Mr Meow 's table of close STK losses we here should have considered a warning.
Scott stopped short of blaming Marvel, but happy no finals there, so that says something too. OK 4 hours to Perth-But if we are playing interstate finals, I don't want to hear the poor little flowers travel fading excuse again.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

As ive posted previously its not the end of the world losing that game against StK , because obviously top 4 place not lost

Its interesting with the bye after the last round so you really need i think the best team to play against the Eagles ,otherwise they have too long a break , basically with the exception of SDK ( injured , but if recovered will certainly be picked for the 1st final )

What id love Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

to do ( but he wont ) but i reckon a couple of prior Geel coaches would , namely Malcolm Blight and Billy Goggin , and they might even go public with it , and theyd say , look ive told Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

33

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

and Ollie Henry there is only 1 spot available in the team for you ( like alot of posters have said on this board ) and whichever of you plays best against West Coast , then that player will be picked in the 1st final

You cant get any fairer than that

 

[Hinkley29]

Some commentator said at half time the score didn't feel reflective of STK effort- and it's true that they took time to settle and some of our goals were flukey. Just the same, a good start.
So as it turned out they were better and fitter, easier able to adjust than we gave credit for - except for Mr Meow 's table of close STK losses we here should have considered a warning.
Scott stopped short of blaming Marvel, but happy no finals there, so that says something too. OK 4 hours to Perth-But if we are playing interstate finals, I don't want to hear the poor little flowers travel fading excuse again.

Did you see the interview with danger after the freo game? He was absolutely spent, more fatigued than I can remember for a long time. The rest of the players looked the same.

The trip was a very minor factor, the intensity of the game was the bigger issue.

I honestly could not give a rats if you don’t want to hear the little flowers travel excuse again. The Negative impact of hard games on following week’s performance are real, whether you are happy about it or not.

Watch port crap the bed this week in freo, the lingering effects of the slowdown against the crows will be real.

 

[Hinkley29]

As ive posted previously its not the end of the world losing that game against StK , because obviously top 4 place not lost

Its interesting with the bye after the last round so you really need i think the best team to play against the Eagles ,otherwise they have too long a break , basically with the exception of SDK ( injured , but if recovered will certainly be picked for the 1st final )

What id love Chris Scott to do ( but he wont ) but i reckon a couple of prior Geel coaches would , namely Malcolm Blight and Billy Goggin , and they might even go public with it , and theyd say , look ive told Gary Rohan and Ollie Henry there is only 1 spot available in the team for you ( like alot of posters have said on this board ) and whichever of you plays best against West Coast , then that player will be picked in the 1st final

You cant get any fairer than that

Maybe that is why blight and goggin were serial underachievers as coaches and why Scott is a multiple premiership winning coach.

Holding a gun to your players head is a very easy way to lose the playing group.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Maybe that is why blight and goggin were serial underachievers as coaches and why Scott is a multiple premiership winning coach.

Holding a gun to your players head is a very easy way to lose the playing group.

In all due respect id rather listen to the opinion of Gary Dempsey champion ruckman , Brownlow medalist and about a 5-6 times best and fairest winner , and he recently ( its on the Kelvin Templeton legend tribute video ) called Billy Goggin a great coach

 

[Hinkley29]

In all due respect id rather listen to the opinion of Gary Dempsey champion ruckman , Brownlow medalist and about a 5-6 times best and fairest winner , and he recently ( its on the Kelvin Templeton legend tribute video ) called Billy Goggin a great coach

His Geelong teams in the early 80’s were loaded with talent, but serial underachievers.

Unfortunate but true

 

[Play it Sam]

Did you see the interview with danger after the freo game? He was absolutely spent, more fatigued than I can remember for a long time. The rest of the players looked the same.

The trip was a very minor factor, the intensity of the game was the bigger issue.

I honestly could not give a rats if you don’t want to hear the little flowers travel excuse again. The Negative impact of hard games on following week’s performance are real, whether you are happy about it or not.

Watch port crap the bed this week in freo, the lingering effects of the slowdown against the crows will be real.

No need for nastiness- I was agreeing with you, but denoted added factors that combined to cause a loss, including STK were better than we thought. In reality, it's only Syd, Bris, Port that could be getting home games, and if you want to make hard games and travel a debilitating factor, then try being West Coast during their premiership years. You did write "the long trip" BTW.

My point was (in this day and age of travel forethought, rotations and selection) I'm not taking that as an excuse for finals losses, because they are all hard games- man up and recover ready for the next final or tap out.

 

[Hinkley29]

No need for nastiness- I was agreeing with you, but denoted added factors that combined to cause a loss, including STK were better than we thought. In reality, it's only Syd, Bris, Port that could be getting home games, and if you want to make hard games and travel a debilitating factor, then try being West Coast during their premiership years. You did write "the long trip" BTW.

My point was (in this day and age of travel forethought, rotations and selection) I'm not taking that as an excuse for finals losses, because they are all hard games- man up and recover ready for the next final or tap out.

Apologies if I came across as nasty.

But my point remains - hard games and travel do have an impact, whether we want to admit it or not.

It isn’t about “manning up” or not being “little flowers”. Fatigue is not something you can just magically decide won’t affect you by force of will. It is a real factor, and is why our only realistic hope of having a deep finals run is if we win our first final and get a straight run to a home prelim.

 

[Vdubs]

In all due respect id rather listen to the opinion of Gary Dempsey champion ruckman , Brownlow medalist and about a 5-6 times best and fairest winner , and he recently ( its on the Kelvin Templeton legend tribute video ) called Billy Goggin a great coach

Billy WAS a great coach in a different era. I saw him verbally abuse and berate players mercilessly, and got the best out of most players. His methods would not stand up in today's society with the entitled nature of the age group that plays footy now. PC etc !! Better to Listen to a modern day hero like Selwood, or Cotchin, or Isaac Smith

 

[Vdubs]

His Geelong teams in the early 80’s were loaded with talent, but serial underachievers.

Unfortunate but true

But bereft of a decent forward line. Using Mossop and Turner as our main goal scorers was never enough. We had brilliance all over the ground except up forward

 

[D BRIDGE]

I agree we struggled coming back after the WA game.

I mentioned earlier in the week that winning any week after a WA round trip is never a given or easy.

It's only a small thing... but Hardie could have been used for that game as he would have been fresh for it.

 

[CHAWKTS]

He averages less than 1 clearance and 5 contested possessions a game. At this stage he is as close to a purely uncontested player as you can get.

Interesting…made me compare to Dempsey (given that was the comment he was more contested than him). Dempsey has 6 more clearances, 11 more tackles and 40 more contested possessions, 7 more contested marks and 16 more ground ball gets…. Nothing dramatic but certainly can’t say from stats this year that Darcy is dramatically more potential than Dempsey to play midfield?

 

[And_ROOS]

Yes , I've been banging on about this for some time - you can't play Rohan and Henry in the same side.
They are both stay at home forwards , low possession players who can hit the scoreboard - you can't play two of these types , it's counter productive and deprives you of a player who can play between the arcs.
Rohan can be better defensively but Henry slightly better offensively - take your pick depending on the opposition.

I'd have Henry on a huge running program this preseason - give him the Dempsey treatment.
I think he can contribute up the ground provided he gets rock hard fit.
If he plays more mobile rather than stay at home his marking becomes a significant asset once again.
He has huge potential provided he commits fully to getting fit and adding to his game.

Its why it was working so well with OHenry as the sub in my opinion.

Neale struggling? Sub him.
Rohan struggling? Sub him instead.

 

[Warhorse]

Interesting…made me compare to Dempsey (given that was the comment he was more contested than him). Dempsey has 6 more clearances, 11 more tackles and 40 more contested possessions, 7 more contested marks and 16 more ground ball gets…. Nothing dramatic but certainly can’t say from stats this year that Darcy is dramatically more potential than Dempsey to play midfield?

Still a very very good player but can see why we went with COS

 

[Finknottle]

About as clever a response as I've come to expect from you. I imagine these one liners do sound clever in your head, so maybe that's where they should stay.

It's all sarcasm without substance or balance from you lately. No rebuttal to anything put together involving basic things like facts and logic.

I admit I like a bit of sarcasm. I have a problem with people consistently defending players who are underperforming. It is not the player's fault if the MC keeps rewarding them. I sometimes have a problem with the MC and their decisions. Perhaps I should be more forgiving, they are only human and make decisions like the rest of us.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Apologies if I came across as nasty.

But my point remains - hard games and travel do have an impact, whether we want to admit it or not.

It isn’t about “manning up” or not being “little flowers”. Fatigue is not something you can just magically decide won’t affect you by force of will. It is a real factor, and is why our only realistic hope of having a deep finals run is if we win our first final and get a straight run to a home prelim.

I think factors like hard games , short breaks and travel are particularly significant this season.
With +/- 5% separating the top 10 or so teams they could be the deciding factor.

 

[Mr Meow]

I admit I like a bit of sarcasm. I have a problem with people consistently defending players who are underperforming. It is not the player's fault if the MC keeps rewarding them. I sometimes have a problem with the MC and their decisions. Perhaps I should be more forgiving, they are only human and make decisions like the rest of us.

I'm not saying the MC can do no wrong. I'm also not saying players form is not allowed to be scrutinised.

If your posting style is 100% sniping though, and upon challenge you go straight to a strawman argument or a sarcastic jab, it doesn't really allow for any meaningful discussion. Which gives the impression that you just want to vent then shut up shop rather than come to a more balanced view.

Anyway it's up to you how you post. Exaggerated critiques will likely draw out exaggerated defences, which is probably why you think everyone here is delusional while you are the sole person who can see the light.

 

[Mr Meow]

It's interesting that the two players elevated from the VFL, Mannah snd Humphries, are now amongst our best and most consistent players. They were solid in the VFL but weren't standing out. Since being elevated both have risen to the occasion. We have more talent in the Magoos just like them but we won't see them playing this year. We keep giving chances to repeat failures in Bews, Parfitt and Knevitt because the MC lacks initiative. Oh yeah...IN MC WE TRUST.

So to go back to this original post and now have a conversation in good faith:

1. Any credit to the MC for actually integrating 3 players (Dempsey, Mannagh, Humphries) to the team in 2024 who are now high performers? Or is using that as a stick to beat them over the head with a more clever line of logic?

2. Look at the 2020 Geelong grand final team. 2021: 4 new players in the best 22 (Cameron, Close, Zuthrie, Smith). 2022: 3 new players in the best 23 (SDK, Stengle, Holmes). 2023: 3 new players in the best 23 (Bruhn, O.Henry, Bowes). 2024: 4 new players in the best 23 (Demspey, Mannagh, Humphries, Neale).

2025? If their bodies and form lines hold up, you'd think Smith (if it happens), Clark, Conway and Mullin will be permanent fixtures. Guys like COS (maybe still a year away), Willis and Clohesy are wild cards.

The MC doesn't have its head in the sand. They're trying to remain competitive while turning over about 4 players a year (from retiring/declining veterans) with players of a range of different age/experience levels.

So what are you complaining about besides referring to your typical Hardie rants? That the MC should be turning over 6-7 players a year, even if VFL form by most candidates isn't knocking down the door at all? In years we have been top 4, premiers, missing finals (shocking injury year) and top 4?

The above list of names who have made it into the best 23 give an indication the MC's track record is decent. So the exaggerated "I am the sole arbiter of truth, shining the light on all of you evangelical MC devotees" act really is a bit much.

Agree/disagree? Feel free to contest anything I've said in a civil way.

 

[BIGANT]

But bereft of a decent forward line. Using Mossop and Turner as our main goal scorers was never enough. We had brilliance all over the ground except up forward

Aw the memories. That 81 final series
My parents took me as a 10 yr old to that 1st semi vs Collingwood. Magro flattened Terry Bright.

 

[Vdubs]

Aw the memories. That 81 final series
My parents took me as a 10 yr old to that 1st semi vs Collingwood. Magro flattened Terry Bright.

Anybody recall Rene Kink on Bruns in a ? game or a final. Pretty sure it was a final. The mate I was with was so upset about Kink, nearly had to hold him back from jumping the fence

 

[My Tilly]

Anybody recall Rene Kink on Bruns in a ? game or a final. Pretty sure it was a final. The mate I was with was so upset about Kink, nearly had to hold him back from jumping the fence

Your friend is very lucky he remained behind the fence.

 

[you pick one]

Anybody recall Rene Kink on Bruns in a ? game or a final. Pretty sure it was a final. The mate I was with was so upset about Kink, nearly had to hold him back from jumping the fence

1980 or 81 Prelim I'm thinking 81 split his head open like a ripe watermelon with a shoulder.

 

[Vdubs]

Your friend is very lucky he remained behind the fence.

Dead set right in front of us