Changes / Team for 2010

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Re: So what now

We must continue with our aggressive list development this means providing more opportunity for Sloane, Walker, Davis and SMACK to make our 22

On Goody, Macca, Edwards, Burton and Doughty, IMO there is no way that we can take the risk and keep five players on our list that are 30+ years old. The game and injuries catch up with you veryy quickly just look at Scott Lucas. I am concerned that if all 5 continue the club will continue to play them no matter what and this will impact our list development

IMO time for Burton, Macca and Zoomer all to retire while they are still the class acts and while they still have their dignity
 
Re: So what now

Craig usually doesn't trade players who don't want to go - but with Reilly coming from Victoria, I doubt he'll fight the urge to go back there and if Carlton want him, they can have him, the catch is - ONLY ACCEPT GIBBS FOR HIM! Carlton won't want to give him up - but Adelaide, PLEASE don't trade him for some useless hack that will spend his time on the Crows list struggling to make the league side in the SANFL.
We're usually bad at trades, so let this one be a big WIN!
 

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Re: So what now

The Sloane Ranger said:
We must continue with our aggressive list development this means providing more opportunity for Sloane, Walker, Davis and SMACK to make our 22

On Goody, Macca, Edwards, Burton and Doughty, IMO there is no way that we can take the risk and keep five players on our list that are 30+ years old. The game and injuries catch up with you veryy quickly just look at Scott Lucas. I am concerned that if all 5 continue the club will continue to play them no matter what and this will impact our list development

IMO time for Burton, Macca and Zoomer all to retire while they are still the class acts and while they still have their dignity
Click to expand...
.

Agreed.

2 of Goody/Macca/Tyson/Birdman/Doughty should go.

Shirley must go, as must Gill (the only obvious delist).
 
Re: So what now

I feel absolutely gutted.

What I did see tonight was our future.

Mackay for me was our best - he broke the lines and if luck would have it he could have scored a few goals.

Danger was terrifc too - his ability to fend off and keep his feet and use his pace to advantage was terrifc.

Then I saw Shirely's kick for goal from 50m. Out on the full when we really needed a goal or at least a good kick to the goals square. A very good servant but as et to I have said for years whilst people like Shirley play we will continue to be a side that does not get past the first or second week of the finals. Sloane needs to be given the opportunity to be the new Shirley. Whilst Shirley is there he is holding back Sloanes development.

Burton is also on thin ice. He and Trent looked very slow tonight. McKernan will be a matchwinner and must play next year. One of these two may need to go or simply be a depth player next year.

Davis must also play. He can play at either end of the field and is a star in the making.

Armstrong, Cook, Petrenko, Henderson etc also need some game time next year.

Over the past few years Craigy has shown us real tougness in gettng rid of Torney, Massie, Skipworth etc. We need to bite the bullet again and ensure that our list devleopment continues to evolve.

We are on the threshold of a great era -but we do need a crumbing forward, another one or two quick midfielders and a tall ruckman who can mark and dominate play.

The number of A grade players is growing. With Tippett, Mackay, Dangerfield, Vince etc all entering their prime we need to continue to evolve.

One or tow older players may need to go and we may need to trade to get a pick which will net us two or three players in the top 20.
 
Re: So what now

To answer the topic question directly, if we're going to win the premiership either next year or the year after the following things need to happen:

- Keep Tippett.

- Develop McKernan in Sellar's current ruck/forward role. He's quicker, more agile, aggressive and more talented all round. I admire the improvement in Sellar but McKernan is a cut above. Bigman is on the mark with this kid, will win matches for the AFC. Excitement machine. (where the **** has all this quality tall timber come from all of a sudden?!)

- Full pre season for Dangerfield. Once that happens we've got three top shelf midfielders who have their best ahead of them: Vince, Mackay and the Danger Man himself. With Thompson as the senior influence we'll have a blend of pace and grunt that will perform under finals pressure. Add supporting rotations around them as you please, which brings me to...

- 15+ games for Sloane. You haven't yet seen just how good a footballer this young man will be. Injury permitting, a guaranteed RS nomination next year. One of Shirley or Reilly to make way.

- In: Taylor Walker, Out: Brett Burton. Love the Birdman but in Tex we have someone who will hold our structure up across half forward should a repeat of the Knights fiasco occur. No need to say anything further, we know what a prospect Walker is.

- Make a tough call on McLeod and begin a half back apprenticeship for young Petrenko. Tough little bugger who seems to enjoy the high pressure situations, with pace to burn. Sloane could start here too, that is something the coaching staff will explore in terms of rotations no doubt.

- Phil Davis. Heard great things but I still haven't seen a great deal of him. Giving the club the benefit of the doubt and assuming he will play a good 10+ games next year.

- The obvious one. Don't hand games to middle aged or older players who have shown themselves not to be up for it when it counts. Swear to God if I see Sloane play less than 12 or so games next year while certain individuals continue to crack on the big stage I'll approach Craigy myself at a training session to lecture him.

Also a rough suggestion, if they're keen to play Davis forward rather than in defense, might be worth blooding Young in the Stevens role. He's probably another year away from being primed for AFL football but he has some handy attributes.
 
Re: So what now

Never to fear: we will sprout the same bullshit: "we need to get better at that", destination disease, etc. No lessons will be learned and Douglas and Taylor Walker will no doubt be blamed for the loss. Oh well as long as we make the 8, thats all that we want isnt it? FFS.
 
Re: So what now

The ONLY positive i can see coming out of this match (ok thats over the top as young blokes performed well also) is that we wont be happy with the finish of this season (whereas a close losss to Geelong in a prelim would have been 'par' given our advantages this week) and keep some older blokes who shouldn't be kept on.

This bitter pill should serve to make a couple hard decisions which may not have been made (though Burton would've been dropped for Bock next week...but we'll never know).

Specifically, unless the medical staff believe a PS will cause a huge turnaround, then Burton should be delisted. If Walker wasn't here and Hentschel didn't recover he would be kept for depth but it shouldn't be necessary now.

Shirley can also go now Sloane is around.

McLeod and Edwards will probably reserve the right to judge on their own future but extremely frank discussions must be had to ensure these decisions are right for the club. If both parties believe it's best then they probably play on for their final crack in 2010.

Gill, Gallman still under the pump.

Griffin, Douglas, and even Reilly are all tradeable.


Let's say we have a mass exodus of the older players (except Goodwin who i cannot imagine retiring now), this is our team:

B: Johncock, Rutten, Davis
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Symes
C: Mackay, Vince, Otten
HF: Knights, Tippett, Goodwin
F: Porplyzia, Walker, Hentschel/Stevens
1R: Moran, Dangerfield, Thompson
I: McKernan, Doughty, Sloane, Reilly

Next in: Maric, Sellar, Armstrong, Petrenko, Cook, Young

If Edwards and/or McLeod play on our smalls depth is improved.

Let's atone next year cos this hurts...a GF victory over Collingwood is required to erase this pain.
 
Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Really disappointed after last nights loss, especially with our senior players in the 29 and older age bracket – Goody/Edwards/Macca/Burton (was he fit), Shirley and Doughty. Then throw in below par physical performances from Reilly and Stevens and it’s a credit to some of our big hearted youngsters that the score line was so close.

Under Neil Craig we never seem to over perform in finals and that’s the most disappointing thing for me. We never have an unexpected finals win. We either lose to marginally better sides or lose to sides that are about the same level as us – ie Collingwood/Hawthorn.

So where too from here with the senior players listed above?

Delist this year:

-Edwards – Legend of the club but his time has come.
-Burton – See Edwards.
-Shirley – Love the little guy as he has a big heart but time to make way for the likes of Sloane.
-Reilly – Has only really ever had one consistently good year. His lack of any physical presence last night was appalling. He stood back while AFC players half his size such as McKay were putting their body on the line time and time again.

One more year:

-Goodwin – Has had a fantastic year but must hand over the captaincy to Thomson.

-Macca – Count himself lucky

-Stevens – Insurance. Will make way for the likes of Davis. Not a genuine KPP. Gets out bodied time and time again by quality kpp's.

-Doughty – 1 more year before the Trigg over 30 policy sees him culled.
 
Re: So what now

Very tough call on the older players this year. Doughty seems to have lifted in his tagging role this year, which could see Shirley delisted.

Edwards form wasn't great in the last few games but I think people forget how good he was for most of the season. If he wants to go again I would keep him.

Goodwin got better and better as the season went on and I think he will definately stay.

McLeod may bow out. Who knows. He has lost alot of his pace but has shown he can still step up in games. Hard one.

Burton may get the flick to make way for the likes of younger Walker and McKernan. But I just cant see Adelaide delisting him.

They're all incredibly tough calls but I agree with others on here 2 probably need to go.

Keep Hentschel.

Keep Stevens (very valuable)

Unless we could get something worthwhile for Reilly I would keep him as a depth midfielder.

Ditto for Douglas. I dont think either of them would have any great value at trade week.

More games for Walker, Sloane, Davis, McKernan and Petrenko next year. They are the best kids outside our 22 hands down.
 
Re: So what now

jackster83 said:
Never to fear: we will sprout the same bullshit: "we need to get better at that", destination disease, etc. No lessons will be learned and Douglas and Taylor Walker will no doubt be blamed for the loss. Oh well as long as we make the 8, thats all that we want isnt it? FFS.
Click to expand...

If Craig hasnt woken up from that mindset after this year I would be very very worried

Surely the realisation has set in for Craig now, Craig had his destination disease mentality this year when Shirley and Burton were brought back as we loaded up for September to the same hopes from the coaching staff and many people here that they would bring us success in September only to find that yet again we werent good enough when it counts.
 

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Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

CaptainDangerfield said:
Delist this year:

-Edwards – Legend of the club but his time has come.
-Burton – See Edwards.
-Shirley – Love the little guy as he has a big heart but time to make way for the likes of Sloane.
-Reilly – Has only really ever had one consistently good year. His lack of any physical presence last night was appalling. He stood back while AFC players half his size such as McKay were putting their body on the line time and time again.
.
Click to expand...

Maybe all 4 get Vanberlo back, Bock,plus Davis,Sloane,McKernnan
 
Re: So what now

TheLeftFist8 said:
Let's say we have a mass exodus of the older players (except Goodwin who i cannot imagine retiring now), this is our team:

B: Johncock, Rutten, Davis
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Symes
C: Mackay, Vince, Otten
HF: Knights, Tippett, Goodwin
F: Porplyzia, Walker, Hentschel/Stevens
1R: Moran, Dangerfield, Thompson
I: McKernan, Doughty, Sloane, Reilly

Next in: Maric, Sellar, Armstrong, Petrenko, Cook, Young

If Edwards and/or McLeod play on our smalls depth is improved.

Let's atone next year cos this hurts...a GF victory over Collingwood is required to erase this pain.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of this and love the Davis in a back pocket and Otten on a wing but would still have Goodwin on that half back flank for leadership coming out of defence.

IMO Ivan Maric deserves to be the first ruckman as his second half of the year was outstanding. His level of improved was out of site in the last 9 or 10 weeks, Moran was good but Maric IMO was far superior.

Would move Porplyzia to a half forward flnak and play the saem sort of role as Chris Knights. In and out of the midfield with their rotation as well as still being that goal kicking option.

Hentschel would be the first option if he can stay fit and then Stevens but one or the other in that postion - doesn't really matter who. Walker and Tippett have to be the 2 key forwards with McKernan offering back up for ruck or forward line.

My side at this stage would look something like this.

B: Johncock, Rutten, Davis
HB: van Berlo, Bock, Goodwin
C: Mackay, Vince, Otten
HF: Knights, Tippett, Porplyzia
F: Sloane, Walker, Hentschel/Stevens
1R: Maric, Dangerfield, Thompson
I: McKernan, Doughty, Symes, Reilly

Next in: Moran Sellar, Armstrong, Petrenko, Young, Cook
 
Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Mcleod will get 1 more year, same with goodwin..

Burton should go, he looks lost.. He cant find a ball but 2nd efforts are terrible which is the real issue i have with him at the mo.. Edwards has had a pretty poor second half of the year and looks to be really slowing down, he relied on being zippy to get out of trouble a lot..

We cant keep all our senior players and these 2 probably look the best choices to have to let go..

Shirley and stevens must go, doughty will get at least 1 more year..

Reilly again went into his shell when the heat is on, and as stated, let his younger and smaller team mates do the things he should have been doing.. Trade

We need a good ruckman if we are going to be a serious threat, maric is ok at best..

More young players to get a go next year, mckernan, sloane, davis etc

Captaincy - i have no idea.. Which is not a good sign.. But thats the price we pay for this gulf on our list, no top notch players or leaders in the 25-30 age group..
 
Re: So what now

relapse said:
If Craig hasnt woken up from that mindset after this year I would be very very worried

Surely the realisation has set in for Craig now, Craig had his destination disease mentality this year when Shirley and Burton were brought back as we loaded up for September to the same hopes from the coaching staff and many people here that they would bring us success in September only to find that yet again we werent good enough when it counts.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from but surely even the most cynical supporter would be happy with the development on the young group of players we have.

How man rising star noms? how may debut players? sure we went to Burton and Shirley but I think 99% of suuporters expect us to play the team with the bet chance of winning.

Next season I hope for our sake that some of the younger guys makes it impossible to pick players like Burton.

Whilst T Walker is going to be a star, he isn't at the moment. I am hoping that a big pre-season is going to see something different from him next year.
 
Re: So what now

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but do we need to practice and play 'one-on-one' a lot more next year. Teams are going to keep doing it to us, so we need to be competitive in this scenario.

When the Victorians repeat ad nauseam that the Crows are a well-drilled team, is that code that we can play a zone but can't handle intense one-on-one?

Hell, if we get good at one-on-one, we can turn it against our opposition at will. Wouldn't that be a plan B?
 
Re: So what now

Carl Spackler said:
Trade Stevens.
Click to expand...

Agreed. He is a decent depth player but with Bock returning he will be keeping Davis out of the side. Makes some stupid decisions and doesn't seem terribly footy smart. I would keep Hentschel as a backup swingman - he's more damaging than Stevens whether forward or back. He would be very valuable to a few sides and might help us get the crumbing forward we so desperately need.

Let's not forget Burton was coming back from a knee reco and I think was playing sore after that injury in Round 19. I would hang onto him for one more year because I reckon with better match fitness he still has something to offer.
 
Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Look at our emergencies, two very young, one young, all with form to justify a spot.... could be some hard calls, even if not delistments, they may say, look you could spend a lot of the year out of our best team.

Not the year to go nits on drafting (and we shouldn't anyway)

Trade week will play a massive part.
 
Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

WALL-e said:
Look at our emergencies, two very young, one young, all with form to justify a spot.... could be some hard calls, even if not delistments, they may say, look you could spend a lot of the year out of our best team.

Not the year to go nits on drafting (and we shouldn't anyway)

Trade week will play a massive part.
Click to expand...

Every year I get excited about trade week and **** all happens.

I wouldnt expect us to look for players but either trade or delist a few!

We need a little minor cleanout imo we cannot lose all our experience in one year, good call bad call ! :confused:

To be fair we lost the one player that we could not afford to lose - BOCK.
 
Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

Must Trade bait- Reilly, Griff
Trade if right- Douglas, Stevens
Delist- Gallman, Gill, Moss
Retire- Shirley, Rusty.
Upgrade- Henderson
Players to push for permanent selection next year- Sloane, Davis, Walker, McKernan, Sellar.
Players trying to get in for any game, Petrenko, Cook, Kite, Armstrong, 2009 1st draft pick.
Players to be kept (if unable to trade/retire) as depth layers- Stevens, Burton, Edwards, Reilly, Douglas
 
Re: Our senior players let us down – where too from here.

midway through the year I thought that of the big trio, Goody and Tys would stay, then I thought it would be Tys and Macca after Goody looked to have lower leg problems, now I seem to be leaning to Macca and Goody as Tys has dropped off.

I think Shirley is gone, or at least should be. Sloane will take is spot if not his role in the event of VB being injured and if the Crows keep Martin on the list i'd rather see him played that Shirls.

Burton would be lucky to get a game above Walker next year who is his logical replacement. Smack is also in the frame and Davis if the Crows swing him forward which they may do. Time to roll out a young forward line arounf Tipp with Knighta and Porps providing the small option.

Stevens is under threat by the likes of Davis who can obviously play back and showed he can go forward as well. Stevo will stay on the list tho' they would be mad to get rid of him.

Dogga is saved by his year and can play the tagger, IMO better than Shirley whilst kicking the odd goal.

Reilly is under pressure form the likes of Sloane, but could end up on the list as a depth player if they don't get a trade interest which is likely.
 

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