Unofficial Preview Changes V Sydney (Cloke, JDG in & White, Schazza, Maynard emergencies, see team in OP)

[doodles98]

Were you so keen to drop Presti when he tallied 0 kicks, 1 handball, 0 tackles and 0 rebound 50's?

For one thing, he ain't Presti. For another, he's going to have a very short career if he keeps returning stats like that... especially against B grade forwards and teams. For another, you can negate an opponent and also tackle and win the ball yourself.. it can be done. Maybe he needs to do a bit more of this if we are to be a contender with him in the side.. is all I'm pointing out.. simple realy.

 

[ppoiter]

Only problem with that basic change is who will be the second ruck? Frost?

Good point. Whoever it is, I think conceding the tap outs while providing an honest contest is a better alternative to how slow we are with two rucks

 

[Apex36]

White has done not a Heap more as a Forward either.

Moore Offers more as a Forward then White

Not really. Moore has had 1 game where he's actually hit the scoreboard in 6 now. Yes, he puts his body on the line, tries his hardest to make contests, does the right things, but at this point he doesn't offer the same consistent scoreboard impact, and is not even in the same conversation as White when it comes to ruck relief.

I know you love Darcy, and he will end up being a far better forward than White, but he just flat out is not offering more as a forward than him at the moment. If you think a forward line with Cloke and Reid would function better with Moore instead of White at this stage, you're kidding yourself.

 

[JB1975]

White to play at his old stomping ground please

Not sure that has ever had a stomping ground so much as a prairie for prancing...but I think he'd be useful this week as well.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

For one thing, he ain't Presti. For another, he's going to have a very short career if he keeps returning stats like that... especially against B grade forwards and teams. For another, you can negate an opponent and also tackle and win the ball yourself.. it can be done. Maybe he needs to do a bit more of this if we are to be a contender with him in the side.. is all I'm pointing out.. simple realy.

Frost is a 23yo with 39 games to his name. He averages 8.2 disposals a game.

Brown is a 26yo with 110 games to his name, and averages 9 disposals a game.

Are you sure you are going after the right man?

I agree it is ordinary having two tall defenders with no rebounding ability, but to me Brown is the problem. He is way more experienced and should be doing more.
Brown isn't good enough defensively or good enough at helping third man up for his offensive game to not matter, imo. Frost is selfless and given another 70 games to develop, will be a far better player than Brown.

 

[alfio]

I'd like to see White in purely to play the second ruck role due to his athletic ability and give him a rev up to prove something to Sydney.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Oh and also on that whole tackling thing Frost averages almost one more tackle a game than Brown.

 

[alfio]

In:Cloke White Karnezis
Out: Adams, Moore, Toovey

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Frost is a 23yo with 39 games to his name. He averages 8.2 disposals a game.

Brown is a 26yo with 110 games to his name, and averages 9 disposals a game.

Are you sure you are going after the right man?

I agree it is ordinary having two tall defenders with no rebounding ability, but to me Brown is the problem. He is way more experienced and should be doing more.
Brown isn't good enough defensively or good enough at helping third man up for his offensive game to not matter, imo. Frost is selfless and given another 70 games to develop, will be a far better player than Brown.

Tend to agree. Its not a topic of debate for this year but in 2016 with Marsh ready to take over and a fully fit Reid back, one of these guys will have to make way for somebody more creative. I like the closing speed of Frost. Wouldnt be assuming Brown is the long term incumbernt over him.

 

[MyManLynch]

In:Cloke White Karnezis
Out: Adams, Moore, Toovey

That's close...but I think that Tooves will stay & 1 of Marnard or Marsh goes out.
Don't write off Goldsack getting a call up.
Could be:
In: Cloke, White, Goldsack
Out: Moore, Adams, Maynard

We need some senior experience & bigger, harder bodies to beat Sydney...if too many teens in defence...we would get smashed.

 

[Kappa]

Not really. Moore has had 1 game where he's actually hit the scoreboard in 6 now. Yes, he puts his body on the line, tries his hardest to make contests, does the right things, but at this point he doesn't offer the same consistent scoreboard impact, and is not even in the same conversation as White when it comes to ruck relief.

I know you love Darcy, and he will end up being a far better forward than White, but he just flat out is not offering more as a forward than him at the moment. If you think a forward line with Cloke and Reid would function better with Moore instead of White at this stage, you're kidding yourself.

How many of those 6 was he a defender?

 

[Apex36]

How many of those 6 was he a defender?

1? He only played in defence against Port didn't he?

My point still stands.

 

[alfio]

That's close...but I think that Tooves will stay & 1 of Marnard or Marsh goes out.
Don't write off Goldsack getting a call up.
Could be:
In: Cloke, White, Goldsack
Out: Moore, Adams, Maynard

We need some senior experience & bigger, harder bodies to beat Sydney...if too many teens in defence...we would get smashed.

There was a time in circa 2010 when we dropped them experience, bigger bodies you speak of aka Obree Lockyer for that young dash that you see in Maynard and Marsh. Time to reward young invincibility that they posses. Dare and dash off half back can never be underestimated.
Goldsack didn't exactly set the world on fire v zero opposition on Saturday his form before then has not been great. Freo match he had still sits in my mind as a nightmare.
I also doubt bucks will drop tooves but it isnt far away hopefully.

 

[doodles98]

Frost is a 23yo with 39 games to his name. He averages 8.2 disposals a game.

Brown is a 26yo with 110 games to his name, and averages 9 disposals a game.

Are you sure you are going after the right man?

I agree it is ordinary having two tall defenders with no rebounding ability, but to me Brown is the problem. He is way more experienced and should be doing more.
Brown isn't good enough defensively or good enough at helping third man up for his offensive game to not matter, imo. Frost is selfless and given another 70 games to develop, will be a far better player than Brown.

You make a good point but I prefer Brown as a footballer for now. I get scared when Frost has the ball and Brown is much steadier and does give more rebound and intercept marking than Frost. He's also a pretty important experienced leader down back for us which should not be underestimated in it's importance given the Youth of our back group. Long term I just don't see enough footballing ability in Frost to make me think he's ever going to change that much. I think Marsh will force one of them out next year and my moneys on it being Frost. Right now Frosty would have trade currency and we'd be foolish not to consider it given also that Keefe could be back at some stage next year too.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

You make a good point but I prefer Brown as a footballer for now. I get scared when Frost has the ball and Brown is much steadier and does give more rebound and intercept marking than Frost. He's also a pretty important experienced leader down back for us which should not be underestimated in it's importance given the Youth of our back group. Long term I just don't see enough footballing ability in Frost to make me think he's ever going to change that much. I think Marsh will force one of them out next year and my moneys on it being Frost. Right now Frosty would have trade currency and we'd be foolish not to consider it given also that Keefe could be back at some stage next year too.

I wouldn't be too far off your thinking given the leadership thing, but I've seen Brown not go off his direct opponent to help out so many times this year that it makes me think all he cares about is his direct opponents goals.
Whatever u say about Frost, he will go and he is not afraid to help out the other defenders.

 

[doodles98]

I wouldn't be too far off your thinking given the leadership thing, but I've seen Brown not go off his direct opponent to help out so many times this year that it makes me think all he cares about is his direct opponents goals.
Whatever u say about Frost, he will go and he is not afraid to help out the other defenders.

Yep he does do that better than Brown and probably better than most other key backs in the game too. His speed allows him to do it (Brown not so much) and it's his big strength. I like the guy and I'm happy we have him but he would be a very good choice of player for us to consider trading at years end imo. We are going to have to give up some players of worth to get ones we want like Treloar.

 

[DrDavoren]

Frost is a 23yo with 39 games to his name. He averages 8.2 disposals a game.

Brown is a 26yo with 110 games to his name, and averages 9 disposals a game.

Are you sure you are going after the right man?

I agree it is ordinary having two tall defenders with no rebounding ability, but to me Brown is the problem. He is way more experienced and should be doing more.
Brown isn't good enough defensively or good enough at helping third man up for his offensive game to not matter, imo. Frost is selfless and given another 70 games to develop, will be a far better player than Brown.

Talia doesn't get record disposals but quells his man, not everything comes down to numbers. Maybe the key stat is their opponents scoring.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Talia doesn't get record disposals but quells his man, not everything comes down to numbers. Maybe the key stat is their opponents scoring.

Agreed. Our discussion was more about who was better out of frost or brown for this role. I think Frost given his youth and general athleticism

 

[Kirby]

I'd be playing White this week at the expense of Moore. If Cloke comes back it gives us our perfect forward set up with Reid up there too. This allows White to play as the third tall and relieving ruck for the first time since he's been with us and this is the role he was recruited for.

He also played quite well in the VFL and has earned the recall. As an added bonus he gets to play against his old team and at a ground that he knows well.

Moore is a great prospect and going back to the VFL to get a few runs on the board I think will be a good thing.

 

[Ulahoopski]

You make a good point but I prefer Brown as a footballer for now. I get scared when Frost has the ball and Brown is much steadier and does give more rebound and intercept marking than Frost. He's also a pretty important experienced leader down back for us which should not be underestimated in it's importance given the Youth of our back group. Long term I just don't see enough footballing ability in Frost to make me think he's ever going to change that much. I think Marsh will force one of them out next year and my moneys on it being Frost. Right now Frosty would have trade currency and we'd be foolish not to consider it given also that Keefe could be back at some stage next year too.

Lol, you are kidding aren't you? I'll take any amount of money you want to throw away on Frost being replaced let alone traded. One of the most laughable suggestions of the year. I do enjoy a laugh though. Thanks.

 

[DrDavoren]

Agreed. Our discussion was more about who was better out of frost or brown for this role. I think Frost given his youth and general athleticism

I think both are very different and we need both.
Maybe not in every game though, I get concerned with how often Frost gets caught out with his opponent getting a Joe the goose. But I am wrapped when he comes third man up and breaks through contests winning it.

Brown is a dour defender and best suited to Hawkins type but can also go awry with poor decision making and skill errors.

Hopefully we can get better going forward and think you're right that Frost has more upside and as we get better as a team the easy goals he leaks will reduce.

 

[Adz]

Swans by 44.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Were you so keen to drop Presti when he tallied 0 kicks, 1 handball, 0 tackles and 0 rebound 50's?

But Presti never made monumental errors that would cost us big time, was quite good by foot when required too

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

But Presti never made monumental errors that would cost us big time, was quite good by foot when required too

Yes he did. And he was terrible by foot!

Frost will be fine. Hes still developing. Hes not even made it on to a senior list yet!

 

[Frankie23]

That's close...but I think that Tooves will stay & 1 of Marnard or Marsh goes out.
Don't write off Goldsack getting a call up.
Could be:
In: Cloke, White, Goldsack
Out: Moore, Adams, Maynard

We need some senior experience & bigger, harder bodies to beat Sydney...if too many teens in defence...we would get smashed.

This, Goldsack needs to come in the more I think about it. Our defence is too young, need an experienced leader back there