List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

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TradeDraft said:
Being in a Gun Side would Really help Sicly
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I wonder how much better Sicily would have gone this year if Roughy had played?. Sicily was their main foward for much of the season and he is only 186cm. Bruest also had to play closer to goal this year without Roughy so his stats were marginally lower as last year he had spent some time in the midfield.
 
Roverjg said:
I wonder how much better Sicily would have gone this year if Roughy had played?. Sicily was their main foward for much of the season and he is only 186cm. Bruest also had to play closer to goal this year without Roughy so his stats were marginally lower as last year he had spent some time in the midfield.
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Would be Intresting and Would he played as many AFL Games?
 

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Chrispiesssss said:
I'm still very keen on Jack Grimes would love his leadership, and he would come free. If we are gonna lose Nathan Brown, let's make the most of it and get a few free agents in.
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Agree and He would Add a Area of Need
 
Chrispiesssss said:
Yea don't think he has played more than 10 minutes in the forward line all season.

FWIW, I like him better down back anyways.
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I like him down back too, but if we get some regulars back in who knows for next year.

Probably spoil Moore anyway...
 
I don't agree that Williams for 30 is unders.

I do agree that Frost and Oxley are unders for Pick 20 so yeah we would need to sling them another fringe player like Goodyear
 
Vicky Park said:
Gold? Gault? I'm assuming they will be delisted.
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I was talking senior list but yeah maybe. In fact I think Gaults time as a rookie has ended so its promoted our out.

By all accounts Golds was improved in the second half of the year and may warrent another year on the rookie list.
 
On Blair and Mayne: Using afl tables web (assume its accurate).
Blair's best tally of goals is 26 in 2011. Mayne has kicked more than that on 3 occasions since then.
Blair's best marking tally is 60 in 2014. Maybe has hit 100 plus in the last 5 years.
Blair's best asset is his tackling which he has laid over 100 tackles in 4 seasons. Maybe has on 3 occasions and laid more tackles in 2016 than Blair.
Blair has a few more disposals per game but i'd take Mayne better leading and marking over that.
Given that players sometimes become stagnant when spending too much time at one club, you could argue for both that a change of scenery would be well worth it.

The 39 goals Mayne has kicked in one season in 2012 is more than the leading goal kicker for us over the last 2 years. He is not a star but well worth a free pick!
 
I am really keen on these older players. Matthew Lloyd just said that he thought it would be crazy for us to go after these older players.

The way I see it, is that you are either at the Start of a Rebuild, Middle of a Rebuild or not in a Rebuild at all. We have been in the middle of a Rebuild for a few years now.

We have Nathan Buckley, who I believe will just get better and better as a coach, and if he misses finals again, Pie fans will bash there way into the Holden Centre to carry him out of there.

I believe that our problem is a problem that has happened time and time again at Collingwood. And that is, almost all of our aged players, seem to get injury prone, lose form, or retire earlier than 30. If not before 30, just after.

I think it is unfair to bag players like DeGoey, Adams, Aish, Marsh, Langdon, or any of our other young kids, and predict their doom, when they are set up in this way. Their games are so important to us, and we rely on them to play well. If they were at Hawthorn or Sydney or any of the other stronger clubs, they would be getting regular games, but beside many other experienced players. When they drop in form for a couple of weeks, the team still wins. When they do for us, we look at them as disappointments. This is the start or the first 4-5 years of a career at Collingwood, and thrown in there are multiple block busters and other teams despite their ladder position or ours, they play hard against us.

As a result, by 28, we are wrecked. All finished or very close to. Meanwhile over at the Hawks, we have players playing until 35, North Melbourne, the same.

So this year, we lose Swan, MacAffer, Toovey and Cloke gone. Goldsack is an old car backfiring down the road, he seems to be trying to put in but he keeps getting smashed. I don't think we would get too much out of him, and there is someone I think is very similar that we should go for, who is not as beat up. White as well, not confident on what he can do next year, because we all know that his consistency is the issue. Brown, had mixed beliefs in our supporter group, some say he was terrible, and some say he was good. I think he was ok. But another player that is not about to grab a game by the throat and help us over the line. Varcoe can, but he doesn't do it enough, but he is one from another club in his later stage of his career that has worked out. Levi Greenwood exactly the same as Varcoe. Was very happy with Howe this year, who is on the younger end of the experienced player. Pendlebury and Sidebottom can't do it themselves. When the chips are down, we rely on these older players to bring us back into it. Not the young guys.

So I can't see what is wrong with replacing like for like on our list. But recruiting players at the same age as the players we lose, but ones who are fit enough in their older years to keep going into the short term future to have us competitive short term, get into finals, save Buckley, and let the younger players be inconsistent like young players are. Let them develop without having that extreme judgement on their ability's first up. Let them get the lesser players of the stronger sides, not the best of them.

Brown is rumoured to be on the trade table, so in this exercise, I will replace him.

Here is the players in our list that were born in the 80's and I have included 1990, those who will be over 27 in 2017 and what they could be replaced with or to stick with them. Also Jarrod Witts thrown in there as well;

Macaffer 29 - Nick Dal Santo 33
Swan 33 - Daniel Wells 32
Cloke 30 - Sam Reid 25 (James Stewart)
Goldsack 30 - Hoskin Elliott 24
Brown 28 - Frost and Keeffe will replace Brown. So this will be a draft pick.
Blair 27 - Chris Mayne 28
Witts 25 - Ivan Maric 31 Age made up with Goldsack/Hoskin-Elliott
Toovey 30 - Ricky Henderson 28

White 28- Stick with him one more year
Varcoe 29 - Stick with
Greenwood 29 - Stick with
Reid 28 - No Brainer
Pendlebury 28 - No brainer

Marley Williams to be traded for a draft pick, effectively Nathan Brown for Brown, Williams for Josh Daicos.

I would be happy to trade Blair, Brown, Williams, Cloke and Witts and Draft picks to upgrade our picks to ensure we get both Callum Brown and Josh Daicos. If we don't get Dal Santo or Sam Reid, which are two that haven't been rumoured to be leaving or coming in this year, I wouldn't mind looking at VFL players like Gus Borthwick, Michael Still, Ash Close, Jordan Kelly.
 
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Carlton are reportedly offering their first pick (5 or 6) for both Marchbank and Stewart. Stewart supposedly leaning towards Carlton as Silvagni picked him at GWS. WCE has also reportedly offered Hogan $1.4m a year for 5 years.
 
Sasuke said:
On Blair and Mayne: Using afl tables web (assume its accurate).
Blair's best tally of goals is 26 in 2011. Mayne has kicked more than that on 3 occasions since then.
Blair's best marking tally is 60 in 2014. Maybe has hit 100 plus in the last 5 years.
Blair's best asset is his tackling which he has laid over 100 tackles in 4 seasons. Maybe has on 3 occasions and laid more tackles in 2016 than Blair.
Blair has a few more disposals per game but i'd take Mayne better leading and marking over that.
Given that players sometimes become stagnant when spending too much time at one club, you could argue for both that a change of scenery would be well worth it.

The 39 goals Mayne has kicked in one season in 2012 is more than the leading goal kicker for us over the last 2 years. He is not a star but well worth a free pick!
Click to expand...
Stats are funny things...
Interesting that Blair's best result in Goals was when we were still contenders and Mayne's have been when Freo were doing well.
Given that Blair is two years younger, would rather stick with him as this year is a much better guide when both teams performed poorly and the goals for each player Blair 0.7 and Mayne 0.8 are not that much different. Mayne has taken a lot more marks but not sure those stats mean much on their own especially if the rumours of amount to be paid and length of contract.

upload_2016-9-18_15-58-11.png
 

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DNine said:
I am really keen on these older players. Matthew Lloyd just said that he thought it would be crazy for us to go after these older players.

The way I see it, is that you are either at the Start of a Rebuild, Middle of a Rebuild or not in a Rebuild at all. We have been in the middle of a Rebuild for a few years now.

We have Nathan Buckley, who I believe will just get better and better as a coach, and if he misses finals again, Pie fans will bash there way into the Holden Centre to carry him out of there.

I believe that our problem is a problem that has happened time and time again at Collingwood. And that is, almost all of our aged players, seem to get injury prone, lose form, or retire earlier than 30. If not before 30, just after.

I think it is unfair to bag players like DeGoey, Adams, Aish, Marsh, Langdon, or any of our other young kids, and predict their doom, when they are set up in this way. Their games are so important to us, and we rely on them to play well. If they were at Hawthorn or Sydney or any of the other stronger clubs, they would be getting regular games, but beside many other experienced players. When they drop in form for a couple of weeks, the team still wins. When they do for us, we look at them as disappointments. This is the start or the first 4-5 years of a career at Collingwood, and thrown in there are multiple block busters and other teams despite their ladder position or ours, they play hard against us.

As a result, by 28, we are wrecked. All finished or very close to. Meanwhile over at the Hawks, we have players playing until 35, North Melbourne, the same.

So this year, we lose Swan, MacAffer, Toovey and Cloke gone. Goldsack is an old car backfiring down the road, he seems to be trying to put in but he keeps getting smashed. I don't think we would get too much out of him, and there is someone I think is very similar that we should go for, who is not as beat up. White as well, not confident on what he can do next year, because we all know that his consistency is the issue. Brown, had mixed beliefs in our supporter group, some say he was terrible, and some say he was good. I think he was ok. But another player that is not about to grab a game by the throat and help us over the line. Varcoe can, but he doesn't do it enough, but he is one from another club in his later stage of his career that has worked out. Levi Greenwood exactly the same as Varcoe. Was very happy with Howe this year, who is on the younger end of the experienced player. Pendlebury and Sidebottom can't do it themselves. When the chips are down, we rely on these older players to bring us back into it. Not the young guys.

So I can't see what is wrong with replacing like for like on our list. But recruiting players at the same age as the players we lose, but ones who are fit enough in their older years to keep going into the short term future to have us competitive short term, get into finals, save Buckley, and let the younger players be inconsistent like young players are. Let them develop without having that extreme judgement on their ability's first up. Let them get the lesser players of the stronger sides, not the best of them.

Brown is rumoured to be on the trade table, so in this exercise, I will replace him.

Here is the players in our list that were born in the 80's and I have included 1990, those who will be over 27 in 2017 and what they could be replaced with or to stick with them. Also Jarrod Witts thrown in there as well;

Macaffer 29 - Nick Dal Santo 33
Swan 33 - Daniel Wells 32
Cloke 30 - Sam Reid 25 (James Stewart)
Goldsack 30 - Hoskin Elliott 24
Brown 28 - Frost and Keeffe will replace Brown. So this will be a draft pick.
Blair 27 - Chris Mayne 28
Witts 25 - Ivan Maric 31 Age made up with Goldsack/Hoskin-Elliott
Toovey 30 - Ricky Henderson 28

White 28- Stick with him one more year
Varcoe 29 - Stick with
Greenwood 29 - Stick with
Reid 28 - No Brainer
Pendlebury 28 - No brainer

Marley Williams to be traded for a draft pick, effectively Nathan Brown for Brown, Williams for Josh Daicos.

I would be happy to trade Blair, Brown, Williams, Cloke and Witts and Draft picks to upgrade our picks to ensure we get both Callum Brown and Josh Daicos. If we don't get Dal Santo or Sam Reid, which are two that haven't been rumoured to be leaving or coming in this year, I wouldn't mind looking at VFL players like Gus Borthwick, Michael Still, Ash Close, Jordan Kelly.
Click to expand...
Frost is being traded
 
DNine said:
I believe that our problem is a problem that has happened time and time again at Collingwood. And that is, almost all of our aged players, seem to get injury prone, lose form, or retire earlier than 30. If not before 30, just after.

I think it is unfair to bag players like DeGoey, Adams, Aish, Marsh, Langdon, or any of our other young kids, and predict their doom, when they are set up in this way. Their games are so important to us, and we rely on them to play well. If they were at Hawthorn or Sydney or any of the other stronger clubs, they would be getting regular games, but beside many other experienced players. When they drop in form for a couple of weeks, the team still wins. When they do for us, we look at them as disappointments. This is the start or the first 4-5 years of a career at Collingwood, and thrown in there are multiple block busters and other teams despite their ladder position or ours, they play hard against us.

As a result, by 28, we are wrecked. All finished or very close to. Meanwhile over at the Hawks, we have players playing until 35, North Melbourne, the same.

So this year, we lose Swan, MacAffer, Toovey and Cloke gone. Goldsack is an old car backfiring down the road, he seems to be trying to put in but he keeps getting smashed. I don't think we would get too much out of him, and there is someone I think is very similar that we should go for, who is not as beat up. White as well, not confident on what he can do next year, because we all know that his consistency is the issue. Brown, had mixed beliefs in our supporter group, some say he was terrible, and some say he was good. I think he was ok. But another player that is not about to grab a game by the throat and help us over the line. Varcoe can, but he doesn't do it enough, but he is one from another club in his later stage of his career that has worked out. Levi Greenwood exactly the same as Varcoe. Was very happy with Howe this year, who is on the younger end of the experienced player. Pendlebury and Sidebottom can't do it themselves. When the chips are down, we rely on these older players to bring us back into it. Not the young guys.
y.
Click to expand...

So who's Fault that lot of our Players start to go Backwards Badly at around 28-29 Years old?

Who is saying Players Like Aish and De Goey are Crap?
 
Timmy from Thomastown said:
I was talking senior list but yeah maybe. In fact I think Gaults time as a rookie has ended so its promoted our out.

By all accounts Golds was improved in the second half of the year and may warrent another year on the rookie list.
Click to expand...

Imo it's a waste to rookie players like Golds. he is a mile off playing. Those spots could be used for a young tall & small forward and a couple depth players with senior afl experience.
 
Maggie5 said:
Stats are funny things...
Interesting that Blair's best result in Goals was when we were still contenders and Mayne's have been when Freo were doing well.
Given that Blair is two years younger, would rather stick with him as this year is a much better guide when both teams performed poorly and the goals for each player Blair 0.7 and Mayne 0.8 are not that much different. Mayne has taken a lot more marks but not sure those stats mean much on their own especially if the rumours of amount to be paid and length of contract.

View attachment 290149
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So Blair is a Superstar and Mayne is a FrontRunner?
 
TradeDraft said:
So Blair is a Superstar and Mayne is a FrontRunner?
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Dave, why do you answer like this?

Nowhere have I used the words 'superstar' and 'front runner'.

Stop jumping to conclusions that aren't there and misinterpreting posts.

Just saying that for the money and length of contract, IN MY OPINION, Mayne is not worth it.

We have Fasolo and Eliott (hopefully coming back fit) and have enough of that type of player.

But in the end what I think is not what the Club may decide so not relevant.
 
HFF said:
Of that lot only Crocker fills me with confidence in that he actually has a few neat tricks up his sleeve.
He can crumb, he is a straight shooter, can mark over head and has a bit of toe to boot.

Wills seems like a honest trier and Phillips is still a little in between at the moment.
Click to expand...
Crocker is anything but a straight shooter. It's why he fell to pick 65 in 2015 draft!
 
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