List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Mark Stevens said that Hawks are willing to trade him out to get JOM. Not sure if that means Sicily to GCS or getting another club involved, didn't see any further detail about it.

We can certianly assist in that trade with Witts part of the package...I'm all for it

 

[Tassiepies83]

Dave, why do you answer like this?

Nowhere have I used the words 'superstar' and 'front runner'.

Stop jumping to conclusions that aren't there and misinterpreting posts.

Just saying that for the money and length of contract, IN MY OPINION, Mayne is not worth it.

We have Fasolo and Eliott (hopefully coming back fit) and have enough of that type of player.

But in the end what I think is not what the Club may decide so not relevant.

Mayne and blair aren't quite the same play you said that in every thing else but marks they are similar, I think marks are the key here. If you watch a few free games Mayne is used as that link up between wing and FF taking marks on lead presenting a target for our mids. Something I don't see to much of from blair, that was an area we struggled in this yeah.

 

[inxs88]

Player 1. James Sicily, CP 5.6, DE 68.7, 1% 1,.2
Player 2. Alex Fasolo, CP 6.00, DE 78.3, 1% 0.9
Player 3. Luke Bruest, CP 7.6, DE 65.0, 1% 0.9
Player 4. Chris Mayne, CP 5.3, DE 75.7, 1% 1.2
Player 5. Jarryd Blair, CP 6.9, DE 69.6, 1% 0.9
Player 6. Shane Kersten, CP 4.6, DE 70.9, 1% 1.5

Not much separating them, don't know why Blair gets such a bad rap.

Because he is shit!

 

[inxs88]

I don't agree that Williams for 30 is unders.

I do agree that Frost and Oxley are unders for Pick 20 so yeah we would need to sling them another fringe player like Goodyear

So you contend that Marley is a better player than Oxley?? Are you sure you want to be known for that??

 

[jadami1973]

Wells played 19 games this year, and none of the games he missed were due to his Achilles.

It must have been last year. Either way he doesn't have a great record with injuries over his career.

 

[mike123]

On Blair and Mayne: Using afl tables web (assume its accurate).
Blair's best tally of goals is 26 in 2011. Mayne has kicked more than that on 3 occasions since then.
Blair's best marking tally is 60 in 2014. Maybe has hit 100 plus in the last 5 years.
Blair's best asset is his tackling which he has laid over 100 tackles in 4 seasons. Maybe has on 3 occasions and laid more tackles in 2016 than Blair.
Blair has a few more disposals per game but i'd take Mayne better leading and marking over that.
Given that players sometimes become stagnant when spending too much time at one club, you could argue for both that a change of scenery would be well worth it.

The 39 goals Mayne has kicked in one season in 2012 is more than the leading goal kicker for us over the last 2 years. He is not a star but well worth a free pick!

I'd rather neither in our best 22

 

[jadami1973]

It would be quite ironic if Stewart found his way home…

We do have a need for somebody though.
With just Moore, White and Cox it's very light on and thin.
At 20/21yrs old, Stewart would fit the bill to develop a partnership with Moore.

It was obvious to many that Stewart & followed by Moore together would be a decent KPF line to build around in Stewart's draft.
Any half decent father sons should be selected. If they aren't that good then they won't cost much even a rookie spot

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's a total G-up that any of those G's got on our list in the first place. G whiz!

Good

 

[NT.Thunder]

Hogan would be a massive get for WCE if they're into him.

Not interested in Mayne, wouldn't be part of any serious tilt at a flag IMO.

Marley Williams - why are we trading him? Does he want out? Kid has good potential and we should try and hold.

Speed and skills, speed and skills we should be targeting - the right speed and not the Bennell type

 

[Crazy Tails]

Anyone hearing anything about where the Nathan Brown contract situation is at?

If Frost is gone then we need to retain him. As we would be lefty without a def stopper to play on the gorillas. In saying that I'm not sure there is a lot of value in either party (Collingwood or Brown) coming to terms just yet. No harm in waiting to see what other offers he gets from other clubs as a RFA. If it's not too unreasonable then we just match it and move on. Compo would be negligible anyway if we are bringing in Mayne/Wells etc.

 

[mike123]

Still pretty close when you compare against the Hawthorn players and the team around them.

Yeah but even when we were smashing it Blair wasn't a regular goal kicker.

I don't have such a dislike against him like most on the board. (But that is not surprising).

I don't either although you like him more than me. I think he should just be a depth player from now on. I don't mind him coming in putting pressure on the kids to perform and being there if someone goes done with an injury but I wouldn't have him first choice 22.

Fasolo is the one that compares really well, do we need another?

I'd take two Fasolo's in the side any day of the week.

Do we need another straight shooting high goal kicker who's elite at kicking inside 50. I'd say yes. And I think Bruest reads crumbs better than Fasolo as well which is another need.

 

[Sasuke]

Stats are funny things...
Interesting that Blair's best result in Goals was when we were still contenders and Mayne's have been when Freo were doing well.
Given that Blair is two years younger, would rather stick with him as this year is a much better guide when both teams performed poorly and the goals for each player Blair 0.7 and Mayne 0.8 are not that much different. Mayne has taken a lot more marks but not sure those stats mean much on their own especially if the rumours of amount to be paid and length of contract.

View attachment 290149

Definitely true though Mayne's best year was when Freo finished 7th. It would also have been around the time they changed coaches. Perhaps he thrives in a new environment. I think Blair's best will not improve our current team. I could see others playing his role better than him, Degoey on end of season form is more explosive, a better mark and more likely to kick goals. Mayne on best form is a big improvement to our team if he plays the 3rd tall link forward hitting the wing. Jesse W players better as a wingman and we can't rely on him to be a hitup target for our defenders. FWIW i wouldnt sign Mayne on a 4 year deal anyway but do think he is an slight upgrade to our team.

 

[Hardas]

Anyone hearing anything about where the Nathan Brown contract situation is at?

If Frost is gone then we need to retain him. As we would be lefty without a def stopper to play on the gorillas. In saying that I'm not sure there is a lot of value in either party (Collingwood or Brown) coming to terms just yet. No harm in waiting to see what other offers he gets from other clubs as a RFA. If it's not too unreasonable then we just match it and move on. Compo would be negligible anyway if we are bringing in Mayne/Wells etc.

With Bucks praising his off-field leadership again the other day, and being picked before Frost most of the season's second half, I'd be expecting us to keep him. Sounds like Frost is the one on the outer.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Would rather a fit and consistent Fasolo and Elliot also but just hadn't and doesn't look like happening. Would add Breust to our list, we need reliable goal kickers.

I think our current list needs Blair in the squad but we need to be looking at developing the list to move him on.

 

[jadami1973]

Iyt

Sign Wells, Mayne and Maric as free agents.

Trade 1:

West Coast:

Gain: Marley Williams
Lose: Pick 30

Collingwood:

Gain: Pick 30
Lose: Marley Williams

Trade 2:

Gold Coast:

Gain: Witts, Jong, Player from Hawks
Lose: O'Meara

Dogs:

Gain: Cloke
Lose: Jong

Hawthorn:

Gain: O'Meara
Lose: Pick 14, Player???

Collingwood:

Gain: Pick 14
Lose: Witts and Cloke

Trade 3:

Brisbane:

Gain: Frost, Oxley
Lose: Pick 20

Collingwood:

Gain: Pick 20
Lose: Frost, Oxley

Trade 4:

GWS:

Gain: 2017 2nd Rnd, 2016 3rd Rnd
Lose: WHE, Stewart

Collingwood:

Gain: WHE, Stewart
Lose 2017 2nd Rnd, 2016 3rd Rnd

Pick 30 onwards used for the points needed for Daicos and Brown

Take Picks 14, 20 and 25 to the draft taking the best available kpp's

Following this we:

* Add a few experienced heads for the ones lost this year.
* Have a back up ruckman in Maric who can also teach Brodie.
* Add new young talent onto the list.
* Have depth in the kpp stocks. I know Stewart hasn't done much but at the very least he will provide support for Darcy and has shown glimpses. We will be targeting an elite kpf in next years offseason.
* Using a 1st rnd this years draft gives us the currency to go after an elite tall fwd next year.
* Pick crumbing fwds in Brown and Daicos

In what reality is Frost & Oxley worth 6 spots lower in the draft than Cloke & Witts ?
unlike many other posters aside from the above I think the worth of our players is accurate. I suspect we will be getting more from Witts and Cloke and probably less for Frost & Oxley though. Don't you think that a player from Freo or the pick they offer for Hill from the Hawks could be involved in the O'Meara deal ?

 

[TradeDraft]

Hogan would be a massive get for WCE if they're into him.

Not interested in Mayne, wouldn't be part of any serious tilt at a flag IMO.

Marley Williams - why are we trading him? Does he want out? Kid has good potential and we should try and hold.

Speed and skills, speed and skills we should be targeting - the right speed and not the Bennell type

Williams rumored not to be very happy and wants home.

How do you know 100% Mayne won't be part of a Top 4 Side?

 

[NT.Thunder]

Williams rumored not to be very happy and wants home.

How do you know 100% Mayne won't be part of a Top 4 Side?

When I have a few drinks these things just come to me, call me gifted - LOL

 

[jadami1973]

I am really keen on these older players. Matthew Lloyd just said that he thought it would be crazy for us to go after these older players.

The way I see it, is that you are either at the Start of a Rebuild, Middle of a Rebuild or not in a Rebuild at all. We have been in the middle of a Rebuild for a few years now.

We have Nathan Buckley, who I believe will just get better and better as a coach, and if he misses finals again, Pie fans will bash there way into the Holden Centre to carry him out of there.

I believe that our problem is a problem that has happened time and time again at Collingwood. And that is, almost all of our aged players, seem to get injury prone, lose form, or retire earlier than 30. If not before 30, just after.

I think it is unfair to bag players like DeGoey, Adams, Aish, Marsh, Langdon, or any of our other young kids, and predict their doom, when they are set up in this way. Their games are so important to us, and we rely on them to play well. If they were at Hawthorn or Sydney or any of the other stronger clubs, they would be getting regular games, but beside many other experienced players. When they drop in form for a couple of weeks, the team still wins. When they do for us, we look at them as disappointments. This is the start or the first 4-5 years of a career at Collingwood, and thrown in there are multiple block busters and other teams despite their ladder position or ours, they play hard against us.


As a result, by 28, we are wrecked. All finished or very close to. Meanwhile over at the Hawks, we have players playing until 35, North Melbourne, the same.

So this year, we lose Swan, MacAffer, Toovey and Cloke gone. Goldsack is an old car backfiring down the road, he seems to be trying to put in but he keeps getting smashed. I don't think we would get too much out of him, and there is someone I think is very similar that we should go for, who is not as beat up. White as well, not confident on what he can do next year, because we all know that his consistency is the issue. Brown, had mixed beliefs in our supporter group, some say he was terrible, and some say he was good. I think he was ok. But another player that is not about to grab a game by the throat and help us over the line. Varcoe can, but he doesn't do it enough, but he is one from another club in his later stage of his career that has worked out. Levi Greenwood exactly the same as Varcoe. Was very happy with Howe this year, who is on the younger end of the experienced player. Pendlebury and Sidebottom can't do it themselves. When the chips are down, we rely on these older players to bring us back into it. Not the young guys.

So I can't see what is wrong with replacing like for like on our list. But recruiting players at the same age as the players we lose, but ones who are fit enough in their older years to keep going into the short term future to have us competitive short term, get into finals, save Buckley, and let the younger players be inconsistent like young players are. Let them develop without having that extreme judgement on their ability's first up. Let them get the lesser players of the stronger sides, not the best of them.

Brown is rumoured to be on the trade table, so in this exercise, I will replace him.

Here is the players in our list that were born in the 80's and I have included 1990, those who will be over 27 in 2017 and what they could be replaced with or to stick with them. Also Jarrod Witts thrown in there as well;

Macaffer 29 - Nick Dal Santo 33
Swan 33 - Daniel Wells 32
Cloke 30 - Sam Reid 25 (James Stewart)
Goldsack 30 - Hoskin Elliott 24
Brown 28 - Frost and Keeffe will replace Brown. So this will be a draft pick.
Blair 27 - Chris Mayne 28
Witts 25 - Ivan Maric 31 Age made up with Goldsack/Hoskin-Elliott
Toovey 30 - Ricky Henderson 28

White 28- Stick with him one more year
Varcoe 29 - Stick with
Greenwood 29 - Stick with
Reid 28 - No Brainer
Pendlebury 28 - No brainer

Marley Williams to be traded for a draft pick, effectively Nathan Brown for Brown, Williams for Josh Daicos.

I would be happy to trade Blair, Brown, Williams, Cloke and Witts and Draft picks to upgrade our picks to ensure we get both Callum Brown and Josh Daicos. If we don't get Dal Santo or Sam Reid, which are two that haven't been rumoured to be leaving or coming in this year, I wouldn't mind looking at VFL players like Gus Borthwick, Michael Still, Ash Close, Jordan Kelly.

I think you have some contradictions in your blurb.

We are getting injuries to young players because we are moving older players on.
The coaching experiment has been a disaster look at the young coaches coming through that started with similar/worse lists than ours and that have been coaching for fewer years.
Don Pyke
Luke Bevridge
and even Adam Simpson

The wholesale changes year in year out are unsettling and don't do much for team morale and some "efforts" this year were reflective of that.
Currently list wise we are stuck in no-man's land 9-12

 

[Go Woods]

Why? I know nothing about Sicily, why is he an ideal fit? What talent has he demonstrated so far?

He will be a very good medium forward. YouTube him, he already would have some good highlight videos of him to date.

 

[regpies]

In the real world Williams is worth about pick 40-50, Oxley about 50-60.

If any club offers a better deal than that they must be on drugs and we should be arrested for highway robbery.

Nothing more than draft points to help land Daicos and Brown so we can keep a higher pick.

 

[mike123]

In the real world Williams is worth about pick 40-50, Oxley about 50-60.

If any club offers a better deal than that they must be on drugs and we should be arrested for highway robbery.

Nothing more than draft points to help land Daicos and Brown so we can keep a higher pick.

You're underselling Williams

 

[NT.Thunder]

In the real world Williams is worth about pick 40-50, Oxley about 50-60.

If any club offers a better deal than that they must be on drugs and we should be arrested for highway robbery.

Nothing more than draft points to help land Daicos and Brown so we can keep a higher pick.

Surely Williams is worth more than that?

Wouldn't even contemplate letting him go for anything over 30- 35

 

[Maggie5]

Definitely true though Mayne's best year was when Freo finished 7th. It would also have been around the time they changed coaches. Perhaps he thrives in a new environment. I think Blair's best will not improve our current team. I could see others playing his role better than him, Degoey on end of season form is more explosive, a better mark and more likely to kick goals. Mayne on best form is a big improvement to our team if he plays the 3rd tall link forward hitting the wing. Jesse W players better as a wingman and we can't rely on him to be a hitup target for our defenders. FWIW i wouldnt sign Mayne on a 4 year deal anyway but do think he is an slight upgrade to our team.

I wasn't really making this about Blair, it was just that his name was on that list.
Personally I think if Broomhead stays and is fit he or Fasolo fits that role. Just don't want Mayne.
Blair's role is there for the taking...

 

[regpies]

Surely Williams is worth more than that?

Wouldn't even contemplate letting him go for anything over 30- 35

He struggled to get a game for a team that had a heap of injuries and finished 12th.

Imagine if Williams was playing for Richmond and he was in and out of the team. We would all be going on about how we'd offer Richmond pick 70 or just get him in the Pre Season draft.

 

[Maggie5]

Yeah but even when we were smashing it Blair wasn't a regular goal kicker.

I don't either although you like him more than me. I think he should just be a depth player from now on. I don't mind him coming in putting pressure on the kids to perform and being there if someone goes done with an injury but I wouldn't have him first choice 22.

I'd take two Fasolo's in the side any day of the week.
Do we need another straight shooting high goal kicker who's elite at kicking inside 50. I'd say yes. And I think Bruest reads crumbs better than Fasolo as well which is another need.

Can't disagree with any of this. Blair is only there until someone else takes his place, just not Mayne.