List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings



Latest news and rumours:


  • Zane Trew, Jamaine Jones and Jordyn Baker delisted

  • List Manager Matt Clarke appeared on Gettable - Click spoiler below for summary
    On the draft: "We predicted that the draft was strong, but it's probably gotten stronger during the year."

    On top end of draft: "You could probably make five or six different choices and get it right."

    On Pick 3: "I reckon there's five (players) around that mark."

    On splitting: "I think you want to hold an early selection if you can. The depth of this group allows you to maybe have some movement there, and see what you can do to bring in more talent in the first 20-25 picks. Easier said than done, and I think most clubs would be saying the same thing. We'll see what we can do."

    On Liam Baker: "He's still yet to make a decision. They're still weighing up a few things. We'd love to get Liam on board from what he offers from a talent and leadership point of view. We understand where we're at as a group, we're rebuilding our group, we need to add some guys in the middle tier to support our young group."

    On Jack Graham: "We've got a number of players that we're speaking to. A bit of a wait and see on that one as well. We'll talk to a number of guys."

    On Shai Bolton: "I think it will be difficult for anybody, really. He's heavily contracted and a high quality player."

    On James Peatling: "He's heavily involved in a finals series at the moment so I don't want to comment too much on it, but I think there's a number of guys that have been playing really good footy this year that could suit what we do and what other clubs do. He's taken his footy to another level this year."

    On Tom Barrass: "We've had an early discussion with Hawthorn about it, they understand where we're at. He's nominated Hawthorn as his ideal destination. We want what we think he's worth, as a genuine key back in the competition that can do what he can do. We're obviously mindful of getting an appropriate deal for West Coast."

    On Tom Clurey: "Maybe (note: sounded very non enthused). We'd probably need some key back depth, whether that's through the draft or trade and free agency."

    On Jack Darling: "We've had initial discussions with his management group about (moving). We're open to talking, as we are with all of our players, but Jack's contracted with us."

    On Liam Ryan: "I expect him to be at West Coast next year, yes." (The most definitive answer of the day by a mile, a non-starter of a talking point.)

    On out of contact players e.g. Rotham, Witherden, Jones: "We're still working through what it looks like from a list point of view, and how many selections we'll want to have, and players that may come in and potentially may go out. You might want to give a coach an opportunity to look at these guys."

    On Harley Reid: "We've had discussions most of the year with his management group. I think it sits in a really good place. We're open to doing really whatever they want to do to be honest. We're really confident in building the right system around Harley, on and off field, to make sure that he's really comfortable, that he's going to play his best footy, and his long term future."

    On Jake Waterman's new deal: "Yep, really close. We're working really closely with his management on that. I expect that we'll have something done pretty soon."

    On Oscar Allen: "We've been talking with Oscar and his manager most of the year on that one. We're going through some stuff at the moment. I think we'll be ok with that one."






 
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Lalor's being under-rated in the popular online draft discourse. I reckon plenty of recruiters probably have him pushing number 1 on their boards, and I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if come draft night he's firmly in that conversation for Richmond's pick.*

Travaglia and Lindsay will be the two best value picks in the first round of the draft and to the surprise of absolutely no one are my two favourite players. If we can find a way to get both I’m all for exploring it. 3 for 6 and 9 may well get us Lalor, Travaglia and then Lindsay at 13.

3 for 9 and 10 probably means we miss Travaglia and end up with Lindsay, Berry and Allan.

Case in point ^^. I'm fairly confident Lalor's not getting to 6.
 

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Obviously I disagree with you on Langford though

To return to this.

I want ground ball players. Langford's physicality is fine and he has decent stoppage awareness but he has poor agility, isn't evasive and tends to get jammed up by hand. To my eyes he's still very much a 'ball in front of his eyes' kick--mark sort of player. Combine that with the fact that I don't really rate his kicking either. It's booming and catches the eye but lacks a lot of touch.

Having said that, a lot rides on his combine athletic testing. Probably a bigger swing margin than any other player.
 
Don't get all the Draper zealots on this post. He’s OK but there 6 other mids with very good traits.

IMO...FOS, Ried & Smith are similar in size and have better skills. It's a very even top 6.
FOS - Drafting on potential, rather than proven performance. I get injuries, blah. Whatever.
1726800947213.png

Reid - **** the highlighted scares the shit out of me.
1726801030724.png

Jagga Smith - will be gone before our pick.

So you post proves my point. Pick the proven player, who ticks every box.
1726801118490.png
 
I see Draper as a really safe pick and I don't mean that in any negative way, good enough to be the best player from the draft and would suit our midfield perfectly. I don't have a knock on him.
 
Happy for Darling.
Think he would've provided good leadership in the Beagles but gives us an extra list spot and cap space. Plus a token pick to match any Champion bid. He gets an extra year on his contract and an opportunity to prove he can still play AFL.

I think we're expecting a bit much for Barrass, I can't see it being two first rounders even if we give something back.
I'd do Barrass and 59 for 13 & 30. Baker for a F2 take it or leave it.

Leaves us with 3,13,23,30,58 which is a pretty good draft hand.
Don't want to split 3. We will have an extra R1 pick this year with the Barrass trade and I don't see the need to split and drop back again. We need to bring in the top elite talent which are normally found in the top 5. The top 5 or 6 may be fairly even but I would still like first choice of them.

My current ideal draft for needs and balance would be
3- Jagga or Draper - A ball winner and clearance player is top prioroity. Our leading avg disposal player was Kelly with 24 a game. Yeo second with 22.
Lalor / FOS may have more upside but I think we need a ball pig here. We have Yeo, Reid, Ginbey (maybe) as big bullocking mids. We also have Hewett and Hall who are both pretty big. Jagga has elite hands and him feeding it out to Harley on the burst would be a site to behold.

13 - Lindsay or TT - Run and kicking skils of the HBF and Wing.
23 - Hynes / Davis - Both 190cm mid/fwds who can get up the ground, kick goals with good vision.
30 - M Whitlock / Barrat - A KPD to develop
58 - Champion - skillful small forward
 
FOS - Drafting on potential, rather than proven performance. I get injuries, blah. Whatever.
View attachment 2115567

Reid - **** the highlighted scares the shit out of me.
View attachment 2115568

Jagga Smith - will be gone before our pick.

So you post proves my point. Pick the proven player, who ticks every box.
View attachment 2115569
That’s not entirely true or at least i don’t personally agree with that highlighted part on M Reid. He’s got enough speed and it’s been underestimated along with his agility and composure in tight. He operates as well as anyone in and out of traffic.

He along with most ball winning pigs at 18`s level generally aren’t renowned for there defensive efforts so it shouldn’t be a surprise or concern.
 
I don’t have stats but he’s a very good, penetrating kick. One area I feel he can improve is that knowing he is a good kick he sometimes bites off more than he can chew. There’s a few good examples of this in noobermensch champs videos.

When it comes off it looks sublime but sometimes results in a turnover. Lewis Jetta used to do the same despite being one of the best kicks. Lindsay is the Gippsland captain and by all accounts he’s very coachable so once he learns the time to take on the dangerous kick I don’t think this will be a concern in the medium or long term.
No shade to Eastcoasteagle, just talking in generalities here.

I think people are tricked/biased by watching predominantly AFL which is played in huge stadiums that block 90% of the wind or even block out all external conditions altogether (docklands). These kids play in all sorts... most commonly heavy breeze, but also rain or at least heavy rain drenched tracks and waterlogged footys etc.

The other thing is they're not kicking to Charlie Curnow out there. They're kicking to young and inexperienced forward who more often than not lack the game awareness to anticipate the flight of the ball or body size to hold off an opponent, or even lack the forward craft or foot speed to get out on the lead and create a good option for a ball carrier.

There are a lot of reasons why disposal efficiency at junior level is a lot lower across the board, even for the really elite kicks. Xavier is an excellent kick to my mind, one of the best in the draft.
I'll start by saying I've watched him plenty, and I'm a tad surprised he gets such glowing reviews on here and if TT is gone he's a must. Seems to have stemmed off the back of his last champs game, as I thought he was underwhelming in the previous games in the champs. My overall sentiment on him he rolls onto his left like an elite player, then at times has a beautiful kick and then also at times has an atrocious kick that either does one of two things scrubs across the ground or is in the general direction of the player he's kicking to but not really to advantage of them. Call me harsh, but I would expect from someone that has rolled onto their preferred foot and then has time to assess and kick that it would be more damaging. So this is the reason I was asking about his kicking efficiency.

I got thinking maybe I was being overly critical on the lad, so went back and watched a few of Noobers videos on him and they only supported my thoughts on him. I then thought to myself well it's been overly windy here in Victoria of late (so yes good point Noobermesch), let's go back and watch him indoors at Marvel in the last game of the champs. It did improve but there was still plenty of kicks that weren't good enough for the type of player he presents as at AFL level - winger, half back.

Don't get me wrong, I love the rest of his game, his kicking is my only knock.
 

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I'll start by saying I've watched him plenty, and I'm a tad surprised he gets such glowing reviews on here and if TT is gone he's a must. Seems to have stemmed off the back of his last champs game, as I thought he was underwhelming in the previous games in the champs. My overall sentiment on him he rolls onto his left like an elite player, then at times has a beautiful kick and then also at times has an atrocious kick that either does one of two things scrubs across the ground or is in the general direction of the player he's kicking to but not really to advantage of them. Call me harsh, but I would expect from someone that has rolled onto their preferred foot and then has time to assess and kick that it would be more damaging. So this is the reason I was asking about his kicking efficiency.

I got thinking maybe I was being overly critical on the lad, so went back and watched a few of Noobers videos on him and they only supported my thoughts on him. I then thought to myself well it's been overly windy here in Victoria of late (so yes good point Noobermesch), let's go back and watch him indoors at Marvel in the last game of the champs. It did improve but there was still plenty of kicks that weren't good enough for the type of player he presents as at AFL level - winger, half back.

Don't get me wrong, I love the rest of his game, his kicking is my only knock.
I think it’s actually really important to have balance between praise and criticism, especially when people get attached to a particular player so glad you brought it up.

I’ve only had the opportunity to see him once in the flesh and was very impressed, the rest of my assessment comes off footage. The vast majority of your posts regarding talent I agree with, I’ll go back and have a more critical look at his kicking 👍
 
I see Draper as a really safe pick and I don't mean that in any negative way, good enough to be the best player from the draft and would suit our midfield perfectly. I don't have a knock on him.
I was thinking of a better way to put it as "safe" feels underwhelming. My view is that Draper provides me with the most confidence he will make it as a top line midfielder at the next level. And while he does not get the tic-tac stats of Will Ashcroft do 1-2 with mates, he gets a load of possessions. We do not have a you high possession mid on our list.

My view on Draper is that he is the most balanced of the top end mids. He has it all and while each may not be the best of the 7, I believe he has the least flaws. Being damn good at most things is actually quite elite. I also look at it with Harley in mind. Harley is a burst player and like Dusty, you do not want him at every stoppage expecting a clearance.

If I was to pair up a combination that best works, then it is Harley and Draper, especially if Hewett can get his body right. Harley Draper and Hewett give us a great trio and you can always get a more defensive mid in the mix. This may well be Hutchinson (albeit on a small sample size), Yeo (ask him to be doing less at stoppages), Graham, Peatling, and even Duggan or Ginbey. We are likely to either get another top Mid in 2025 or we trade for Chad or someone similar next year.

Each of the others in the top 7 have ????
  • Smith - too small and short kick
  • FOS - gone missing much of this year and lower possession mid
  • Murphy Reid - more outside leaning and will unlikely like leaving his Bayside mummy
  • Lalor - endurance, soft tissue run and plays the hard nut too much like Harley
  • Langford - speed and athleticism are questionable
  • Smillie - had the man child already reached his ceiling
Given we cannot afford to screw up our R1 picks, we probably should avoid a high risk high reward. Draper feels like a low risk but high reward pick.

(PS - apart from Murphy Reid as a flight risk, there is still a lot to like about the other options)
 
I got thinking maybe I was being overly critical on the lad, so went back and watched a few of Noobers videos on him and they only supported my thoughts on him. I then thought to myself well it's been overly windy here in Victoria of late (so yes good point Noobermesch), let's go back and watch him indoors at Marvel in the last game of the champs. It did improve but there was still plenty of kicks that weren't good enough for the type of player he presents as at AFL level - winger, half back.

Don't get me wrong, I love the rest of his game, his kicking is my only knock.
Nice, you fell for my evil plan. I only post comments on these boards to trick people into watching my videos more often.
 
Given that we’ve got quite a long period of time to argue over who will be our number 3 pick, unless of course we trade it. Has anyone got any dead set certainties for the Melbourne cup? Just the 1st 4 in order will be fine.
 
What is missed here is that Draper is quick and agile. He's not a Chris Masten prospect who lacks pace on the outside and size on the inside. He's also played league football to a decent standard which should arrest any concerns about his transition to the highest level.

If you're comparing him to Smith he's got more pace, longer kick, stronger in the clenches. It's really Smiths freakish outside game that puts him higher in the draft order.
 

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List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Post Season

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