List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Bestbird]

I sort of agree but it does concern me that we've gotten to the point where Dockers are a preferred destination over us

Mind you with the current injury curse. You would be worried about stubbing your toe on some furniture. Next minute you are out for the season and looking at possible amputation.

 

[PremiershipNo4]

One thing that really shits me is how we have overlooked so much home grown talent, particularly quick talented midfielders.
I hope we can see a change there.

 

[Godfather32]

One thing that really shits me is how we have overlooked so much home grown talent, particularly quick talented midfielders.
I hope we can see a change there.

Probably because the pieman is based in Victoria

 

[briztoon]

He watches a lot,claims he doesnt look at any other mock drafts then loves saying how he's the only one who has such n such higher than anyone else
Usually he brings his back in line with everyone else close to the draft

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

He doesn’t watch anywhere near as much as he makes out.

He does has access to Champion Data, which most other draft watchers do not, and extrapolates a lot from stats.

 

[Keys]

One thing that really shits me is how we have overlooked so much home grown talent, particularly quick talented midfielders.
I hope we can see a change there.

Like who for example ?

 

[squashface]

Not that it matters but

Could preface a fair few recent posts in this thread with this one

 

[Obeanie1]

How do you think Richmond and Melbourne built their flag teams?

Drafting top 3 mids with no go home factor from the biggest pool of local mids in the competition. With priority picks gifted by the AFL.

Two things the Eagles dont have access to and wont have access to. Do you understand this fact?

This is just two of the factors your simplistic view doesnt take into consideration.

Crap Vic teams who got good picks to pick the best Vic mids with little to no risk of leaving.

And no Hewett is not in the top 2 or 3 rated mids this draft. The top 2-3 mids are not from WA. Sheezel as a mid forward is also a big risk. Wardlaw isnt playing and has low accumulation numbers. So another risk of uncertain productivity. Ashcroft will likely go to the Lions. So there are your top 3. All very risky or not acvailable.

If we were a Vic team your simplistic view has some credibility. But we arent.

 

[Obeanie1]

Like who for example ?

Bolton.

Warner.

 

[Obeanie1]

I don't totally understand what you are saying.

Are you arguing that the position of your draft pick doesn't matter, i.e. pick 3 is no more valuable than pick 8, and backing that up by cherry picking from a very narrow handful of players taken at later draft picks from previous drafts that turned out to be A graders as examples of why draft position doesn't matter because there is always a good player left somewhere in the draft no matter where your pick is?

No. That is what you have incorrectly interpreted.

How much better is Brayshaw v Cerra?

How much better is Wardlaw v Hewett v Phillapou. Who is better?

 

[Keys]

Bolton.

Warner.

Bolton was pick 29 in 2016 - with pick 13 we took Venables. Many here, myself included, wanted us to take Powell-Pepper. More astute posters thought we should have taken Berry. Bolton would have been a reach at 13

Warner was pick 39 in 2019 - due to the Kelly trade our first pick wasn’t until 49 so we hardly overlooked him. Whether we would have been better not trading for Kelly so we had access to the likes of Warner, and others, is a separate conversation

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Drafting top 3 mids with no go home factor from the biggest pool of local mids in the competition. With priority picks gifted by the AFL.

Two things the Eagles dont have access to and wont have access to. Do you understand this fact?

This is just two of the factors your simplistic view doesnt take into consideration.

Crap Vic teams who got good picks to pick the best Vic mids with little to no risk of leaving.

And no Hewett is not in the top 2 or 3 rated mids this draft. The top 2-3 mids are not from WA. Sheezel as a mid forward is also a big risk. Wardlaw isnt playing and has low accumulation numbers. So another risk of uncertain productivity. Ashcroft will likely go to the Lions. So there are your top 3. All very risky or not acvailable.

If we were a Vic team your simplistic view has some credibility. But we arent.

You do know that we had 2 priority picks shuey and darling in our last premiership team .

Darling also dodged recruiters phone calls and played the bad boy so he would slip to pick 26 so we could pick him .

It sucks that player do shit like that but it won't change .

I have a feeling that sheed did the same to slip to pick 11 after being the best performer at the u18 champs as a true goal kicking mid .

It will happen again this year . We don't like it but norf will get priority pick of some sort . There is also sheezel top 3 who won't want to leave Vic .

Hopefully we can trade back to 5 or 6 and pocket some decent compo then get Hewett to play the go home card too.

Hewett really is what we need . Mid with power and break away speed who is also adept around goals to replace shuey . Seems like we were hiding him earlier in the season at the swans league team playing out of position

We were very lucky to get Culley the tall big bodied extractor with overhead marking skills and a raking kick .

Hewett and culley would make a very good platform for our next group

 

[Chump Change]

Drafting top 3 mids with no go home factor from the biggest pool of local mids in the competition. With priority picks gifted by the AFL.

Two things the Eagles dont have access to and wont have access to. Do you understand this fact?

This is just two of the factors your simplistic view doesnt take into consideration.

Crap Vic teams who got good picks to pick the best Vic mids with little to no risk of leaving.

And no Hewett is not in the top 2 or 3 rated mids this draft. The top 2-3 mids are not from WA. Sheezel as a mid forward is also a big risk. Wardlaw isnt playing and has low accumulation numbers. So another risk of uncertain productivity. Ashcroft will likely go to the Lions. So there are your top 3. All very risky or not acvailable.

If we were a Vic team your simplistic view has some credibility. But we arent.

You have parts of things that matter, and parts of things that are neither here nor there. Priority picks have nothing to do with anything. The mere fact you think they are important concerns me. From memory Rance might have been a priority pick. He only had a small influence.

You mention my view is simplistic. Sure, it's simplistic because the mechanics of building a list to win a flag is simplistic. The hard bit is making the right decisions, then the game plan on top and then the coaching ability etc. But the underlying mechanics of a list build - it's simple to understand but hard to do.

Contrary, you're view is jumbled and you place importance on things that aren't really important, and underrate the things that really do matter.


Let's have a look how Richmond built a list that won 3 flags;


2017, 2019, 2020 Premiership Teams
3 flags
Cotchin
Martin
Riewoldt
Prestia
Edwards
Grimes
Vlastuin
Broad
Rioli
Lambert
Castagna
Houli
Astbury
Nankervis

2 flags
Lynch
Ellis
Mcintosh
Caddy
Bolton
Graham
Short
Baker
Pickett

1 flag
Rance
Butler
Townsend
Grigg
Soldo
Balta

Draft Pick Distribution

Top 5 picks
2007 Cotchin #02
2009 Martin #03

Picks #6 - #13
2012 Vlastuin #09
2006 Riewoldt #13

First round trades
2017 Prestia #06
2019 Lynch #03 (#03 is not what Richmond paid, rather the compensation GC received)

Picks #14 - #26
2011 Ellis #15
2015 Rioli #15
2007 Rance #18
2017 Balta #25
2006 Edwards #26

Picks #27 - #67
2016 Bolton #29
2012 Mcintosh #32
2009 Astbury #35
2016 Graham #53
2014 Butler #67
2015 Broad #67

Trades for 2nd - 5th rounders
2017 Caddy 2nd rounder
2017 Nankervis 3rd rounder
2011 Houli 3rd rounder
2016 Townsend 4th rounder
2011 Grigg Swap for a guy no one's ever heard of

Rookie Draft, Pre-season Draft, Pre-season Rookie Draft
2010 Grimes PSD
2015 Short RD
2015 Castagna RD
2015 Lambert RD
2015 Soldo RD
2018 Baker RD
2019 Pickett MSRD

Where did they get their midfield from?
2007 Cotchin #02
2009 Martin #03
2017 Prestia #06
2006 Edwards #26
2016 Bolton #29

Where did they get their KPFs from?
2019 Lynch Trade
2006 Riewoldt #13

Where did they get their defensive unit from?
2012 Vlastuin #09
2007 Rance #18
2009 Astbury #35
2015 Broad #67
2011 Houli 3rd rounder
2010 Grimes PSD

Where did they get their ruck division from?
2017 Nankervis 3rd rounder
2015 Soldo RD
2011 Grigg Swap for a guy no one's ever heard of

Drafting timeline

2006
#13 Riewoldt
#26 Edwards

2007
#02 Cotchin
#18 Rance

2009
#03 Martin
#35 Astbury

2010
PSD Grimes

2011
#15 Ellis
Trade Houli - effectively a 3rd rounder
Trade Grigg - swap for a guy no one's ever heard of

2012
#09 Vlastuin
#32 Mcintosh

2014
#67 Butler

2015
#15 Rioli
#67 Broad
RD Short
RD Castagna
RD Lambert
RD Soldo

2016
#29 Bolton
#53 Graham
Trade Townsend - 4th round pick

2017
#25 Balta
Trade Prestia 1st rounder
Trade Caddy 2nd rounder
Trade Nankervis 3rd rounder

2018
RD Baker

2019
Trade Lynch 1st rounder
MSRD Pickett


What are the take-aways from this?

1 One quarter of their players are players who were not seen to be good enough to be drafted. This fits with the “80% of AFL players are soldiers” theory where their performance is largely determined by the team they are part of. They play like a million bucks in a top 4 side, ok in a middling side, and like dogshit in a bad side.
2 Midfielders and KPFs win flags. Most of their top players in the these positions are high draft picks - Dusty, Cotch, Prestia are top 5, Reiwoldt is 13, and Lynch was a free agent worth #3.
3 Your backline doesn’t have to be top draft picks. Grimes is the big dog and was a PSD. Vlastuin went #09, Rance #18, and the rest are late picks and rookie drafts.
4 You don’t need to spend top picks on ruck divisions. Nankers was an average player at the Swans. Richmond picked him up as he was entering his prime. It cost a 3rd rounder.
5 The key to this team is Dusty and Cotch. Without them (or players equivalent to them), those flags don’t happen. The team is built around them and to a lesser degree Reiwoldt. They got those two players in place early and that allowed Hardwick to bring in all sorts of soldiers to play roles. Interestingly, this profile has some similarities to most flag sides, including Melbourne. They had Viney and Brayshaw. Viney is as hard as nails and Brayshaw was runner up in the Brownlow. But it wasn’t enough. It wasn’t until Petracca and Oliver hit their straps that it all happened for them.


How did Melbourne do it?

The similarity is they too drafted 2 players from top 5 picks who are superstars. They initially had Viney and Brayshaw as their top dogs. They weren't good enough. It wasn't until Oliver and Tracc hit superstardom that they were good enough. Richmond got Dusty and Cotch early and built a team around them, Melbourne built the team and it wasn't until Oliver and Tracc hit their straps that they won.

No Dusty/Cotch = no flags
No Oliver/Tracc = no flags

If you don't have a couple of players of this ilk, it's very hard to win a flag. Even if you do have them, it's far from a guarantee. But the rest of the players are a handful of A-graders and then rank and file soldiers.

#1 priority is to find those players so you shouldn't compromise it under any circumstances.

 

[Cuzz09]

I reckon we'll take hewitt

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I get that feeling too.

Play safe. WA kid

On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Keys]

Nice breakdown of the Richmond list Chumpy. Very interesting

IMO, Richmond’s success boiled down to 2 things

1) Largely through circumstance on that they routinely failed to find a KPF to help Reiwoldt, they established a game plan built around energy and pressure that didn’t rely on precision skills. Hardwick got the list to buy in to the system such that the players were willing to put in the physical effort and as a result they succeeded with a less talented but more determined list. The game plan was also successful in finals because it didn’t rely on precision under pressure as much as say ours did. It’s why we couldn’t beat them in the wet but had their measure in dry conditions

2) Dusty. He’s a generational player who single handedly dragged them back into many finals that they wouldn’t have won without him. In 2017-2020, the only sudden death final they lost was when Martin wasn’t anywhere near 100% fit

 

[Chump Change]

Nice breakdown of the Richmond list Chumpy. Very interesting

IMO, Richmond’s success boiled down to 2 things

1) Largely through circumstance on that they routinely failed to find a KPF to help Reiwoldt, they established a game plan built around energy and pressure that didn’t rely on precision skills. Hardwick got the list to buy in to the system such that the players were willing to put in the physical effort and as a result they succeeded with a less talented but more determined list. The game plan was also successful in finals because it didn’t rely on precision under pressure as much as say ours did. It’s why we couldn’t beat them in the wet but had their measure in dry conditions

2) Dusty. He’s a generational player who single handedly dragged them back into many finals that they wouldn’t have won without him. In 2017-2020, the only sudden death final they lost was when Martin wasn’t anywhere near 100% fit

For me there's layers. Base layer is the list. You need roughly 2x A+ and 4-5 A. That's just to be in the hunt. Then on top of that is other layers where what you mentioned. You're point 1 - for me this is a reason why Richmond were better than other teams who also had a good list profile. As for Dusty - I've gone from Carey, Ablett, Matthews to Carey, Ablett, Matthews, Dusty (undecided about Ablett Jnr). But Cotch was enormous during that period and I' not sure Dusty alone would have been enough.

The interesting thing for me - most of those players on Richmond's list are soldiers. Lots of PSD and RD. These are available to all clubs. But you have to have a really good top end to get it to work. And that's generally top end in your midfield and KPF.

 

[new breed]

NGA - Coen Livingstone at HT , 10d 17HO

As a ruckman /forward could be a chance for WCE but next season 2023 .

 

[Trav22]

What time is the u19 on today footy friends?
And does anyone know if AFL.com is streaming it ?
Apologies if it’s already been asked

 

[Spooky17]

NGA - Coen Livingstone at HT , 10d 17HO

As a ruckman /forward could be a chance for WCE but next season 2023 .

Undersized as a full time ruck at this stage, but he still might grow a few centimetres given he’s 17.

Hopefully he continues to develop, nice having a few NGA prospects coming up.

 

[new breed]

What time is the u19 on today footy friends?
And does anyone know if AFL.com is streaming it ?
Apologies if it’s already been asked

12.30 pm pretty sure it will be streamed or on kayo more likely .

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

What time is the u19 on today footy friends?
And does anyone know if AFL.com is streaming it ?
Apologies if it’s already been asked

Watch it LIVE: Allies v Western Australia from 12.30pm ACST

Watch all the action from the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships as the Allies take on Western Australia

www.afl.com.au

11am WST
Dunno why it's not a headline like last week's match on the AFL website. Probably cos it doesn't involve a Victorian side lol.

 

[FKASC]

I think it's because a gun KPF is rare as hen's teeth and a good one can go a long way towards a flag. But they're so hard to pick the right ones.

A generational one can go a long way towards a flag. Good ones are just another piece of the puzzle. So many good KPFs in shit teams

 

[FKASC]

Bolton was pick 29 in 2016 - with pick 13 we took Venables. Many here, myself included, wanted us to take Powell-Pepper. More astute posters thought we should have taken Berry. Bolton would have been a reach at 13

I don’t think he would have been that much of a reach. Closer to the draft there was a bit of noise about him bolting into first round conversations, maybe mostly by Knightmare, but I feel like I recall him being linked to our first at one point.

Knightmare's AFL draft wrap: Bolton a first-round bolter?

The draft is edging closer, and ESPN AFL draft expert Christopher Doerre - aka Knightmare - casts his eye over the players who have caught the eye of recruiters.

www.espn.com.au

It’s annoying that his weaknesses were considered his contested and defensive game, given they are now strengths. Richmond have done such a good job with him.

 

[Lazzas]

Watch it LIVE: Allies v Western Australia from 12.30pm ACST

Watch all the action from the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships as the Allies take on Western Australia

www.afl.com.au

11am WST
Dunno why it's not a headline like last week's match on the AFL website. Probably cos it doesn't involve a Victorian side lol.

It's ACST time so 11 WA time

 

[Mulldogg]

Watch it LIVE: Allies v Western Australia from 12.30pm ACST

Watch all the action from the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships as the Allies take on Western Australia

www.afl.com.au

11am WST
Dunno why it's not a headline like last week's match on the AFL website. Probably cos it doesn't involve a Victorian side lol.

Anyone able to explain why WA, SA and the Allies all have to wait two months for the Championships to finish (and the winner be determined) so the Victorians can have a circle jerk over a standalone Vic Metro vs Vic Country game on their GF Eve public holiday?

It’s really just the VFL still masquerading as a “national competition” isn’t it?

 

[Mulldogg]

It's ACST time so 12 WA time

South Australia is an hour and a half ahead of WST. So the 11am call was correct.