List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

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The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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Sands of Time said:
Yeah that looks a rough one but maybe another club after our pick was keen on him and we FOMO’d. No other excuse for that one no sure if we have missed out on any superstars with that one though.

Maybe Greg Clark gave O’Brien a call draft day and said give me 6 more months at subi please! So we picked someone up who we knew wasn’t gonna be their in 6 months so no awkward conversations haha


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Nick Martin, we could do with a running medium sized forward.
 
The problem with selecting Culley is doing so off of such a short amount of games and as an overager. Yes if he continues his form for the rest of the season he is a likely late first / early second round pick. The problem is lack of exposed form.

In regards to Florenca I'd draft him. Against Peel this weekend he had 41 disposals, 6 marks, 4 tackles, 8 inside 50's and kicked 2 goals 1. Against Claremont the game before that. 38 disposals, 6 marks, 12 tackles and a goal. (In a loss) Next highest for his team was 26 disposals. Oh and played 1 AFL game for us and was at worst our second best mid in a side that got royally flogged.

A lot comes down to how heavily we are cutting the list at the end of the year with delistings and trades. If say Shuey, Hurn, Kennedy, Redden, Sheppard retire and we trade Bailey Williams, Gaff, pay out Exxon and Delist Nelson, Trew, Strnadica, Joyce then it makes a lot of sense Having Clark, West, Florenca & Naish on the list. It would literally leave us with a grand total of 3 experienced mids in Kelly, Yeo and Sheed. You need those developed bodies to protect and help develop youngsters. Particularly when you account for injuries. These are the sorts of players you keep or pick up cheap particularly if they have good leadership qualities.

Of those 3 senior players Yeo has played 2 games this season, Sheed 0 and Kelly has played 7. Kelly also averaging 8 turnovers every game or just over 1 in every 3 disposals. He is number 1 in turnovers per game in the league. As an example the second worst in the league is Bailey smith at 7.56 per game. However smith is averaging almost 10 more disposals per game. Another example in a tie for fourth spot is Clayton Oliver. Playing almost exclusively inside at almost every stoppage averages 5.8 from 34 disposals per game. Or just under 1 turnover for every 6 possessions. It's pretty much an average of 1 in 3 vs 1 in 6. So with those turnover numbers it probably suggests that Kelly is just not good under pressure and should be playing more outside than inside. Hence the need for guys like Clark, Florenca and West.

Not ****ing inspiring. BTW Witherden is 8th and from defence with a lot of kick outs. Not an afl level player.

For all the shit he cops in regards to his kicking Mcgovern (who chews off quite a few ambitious kicks) is 182nd in the league. 12th in regards to Eagles players. Oh and he averages only 4 less disposals per game than Kelly and averages 3.25 instead of ****ing 8.
 

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Chump Change said:
Who is Ed Pacoe? Is he credible?
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eDPS on the draft board.

Draft scout and writer at Rookie Me Central.

Yes, RMC are credible. They are the main draft publication out there. While Twomey might be the AFL’s mouthpiece on all things draft, these guys watch way more junior footy than anyone else, both boys and girls, and report it all on their website.
 
WCE_phil said:
A lot comes down to how heavily we are cutting the list at the end of the year with delistings and trades. If say Shuey, Hurn, Kennedy, Redden, Sheppard retire and we trade Bailey Williams, Gaff, pay out Exxon and Delist Nelson, Trew, Strnadica, Joyce then it makes a lot of sense Having Clark, West, Florenca & Naish on the list. It would literally leave us with a grand total of 3 experienced mids in Kelly, Yeo and Sheed. You need those developed bodies to protect and help develop youngsters. Particularly when you account for injuries. These are the sorts of players you keep or pick up cheap particularly if they have good leadership qualities.
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Just a query, do you think this is happening now? As a generalisation I definitely agree you need senior players setting good examples and protecting the younger kids until they fully develop. My argument would be that there's a fair few older players playing pretty bruise-free unaccountable football which isn't setting the standard for the younger kids and if that's how they want to play, may as well have a young kid in there sheep dogging getting to know the demands of the game and building their tank. Might lose by 20 goals instead of 10 each week but players will be developing and as long as we've got West and Clark (and ideally Yeo) will satisfy this enough in terms of mids.

Someone made a comment around hope to see some youth starting in the centre bounce of the last quarter and from memory it was Shuey, Gaff, Redden. Don't see how this serves any purpose for us as a club moving forward.
 
Cornelius Roy said:
Just a query, do you think this is happening now? As a generalisation I definitely agree you need senior players setting good examples and protecting the younger kids until they fully develop. My argument would be that there's a fair few older players playing pretty bruise-free unaccountable football which isn't setting the standard for the younger kids and if that's how they want to play, may as well have a young kid in there sheep dogging getting to know the demands of the game and building their tank. Might lose by 20 goals instead of 10 each week but players will be developing and as long as we've got West and Clark (and ideally Yeo) will satisfy this enough in terms of mids.

Someone made a comment around hope to see some youth starting in the centre bounce of the last quarter and from memory it was Shuey, Gaff, Redden. Don't see how this serves any purpose for us as a club moving forward.
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This will change when the coach changes. It's really clear to me that since 2019 the senior players have drifted away from Simmo's message. To the point where we are at now - it's simply ridiculous level. Defon 5 shit.
 
As we stand, I'm only liking Ashcroft and Warlord. Ashcroft just looks like that Bont/Pendles player - full of class and poise. Warlord has been compared to Clayton Oliver. My only know on Warlord is he's only 181cm. Is he going to grow? Is 181cm big enough? Warlord also has some Bull about him. Wines, Tracc, Oliver - they're all 186cm - 189cm. Cripps is 189cm.

Lemmey and Scully did nothing against Collingwood reserves. I suspect this is a size thing and may be related to why so many KPF's shine at u18s and then struggle in the AFL.

Let's see how they all go in the u18 champs.
 
Chump Change said:
As we stand, I'm only liking Ashcroft and Warlord. Ashcroft just looks like that Bont/Pendles player - full of class and poise. Warlord has been compared to Clayton Oliver. My only know on Warlord is he's only 181cm. Is he going to grow? Is 181cm big enough? Warlord also has some Bull about him. Wines, Tracc, Oliver - they're all 186cm - 189cm. Cripps is 189cm.

Lemmey and Scully did nothing against Collingwood reserves. I suspect this is a size thing and may be related to why so many KPF's shine at u18s and then struggle in the AFL.

Let's see how they all go in the u18 champs.
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Think Warlord will grow a bit he is still only 17. But even if he doesn't he has an impressive leap and is powerful so think his height shouldn't matter.
 
wraglesweb said:
Think Warlord will grow a bit he is still only 17. But even if he doesn't he has an impressive leap and is powerful so think his height shouldn't matter.
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His burst speed inside is impressive. I think everyone is concerned this draft isn't strong compared to other years. Even in weak drafts, that top few picks usually hold their weight.

I hope he goes on with it in the champs.
 
JoshWoodenSpoon said:
Can't believe Godfather32 wants to publicly execute Florenca.
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I'm not bothered about Florenca either. Happy to take him, happy not to if the recruiters don't go that way. We're pretty much building a team from scratch. We have plenty of players in his age bracket who can play and provide support for new kids coming through. It appears we don't have them at the moment, but that's on the coach.

If anyone thinks he is going to solve our problem I'd suggest they are delusional. Having a high possession player who is not an A-grader makes no difference. He's not going to influence the onfield culture - the senior players do that and at the moment they are poor.

When the coach changes, some of the senior players will snap out of it. Florenca is just another bandaid.
 
Chump Change said:
This will change when the coach changes. It's really clear to me that since 2019 the senior players have drifted away from Simmo's message. To the point where we are at now - it's simply ridiculous level. Defon 5 shit.
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I do agree with this, I was perhaps a little bit softer on it than you previous but I think the weekend tipped me over the edge.

We were meant to be a club so focused on culture with the friends, family, flags stuff but we've somehow now have a culture where players don't appear to be pushing themselves to do the basic things like chase and tackle. I'm just reading the insightful media thread now with articles claiming the eagles need Shuey, Mcgovern, Naitanui as they're fantastic leaders. They've been leaders while players have gotten to this point now when they're picking and choosing when to put in which should be a non-negotiable at ay club.

I have a big issue with the fact that the club has been, for want of a better word, "weak" since 2019 where if we're weren't flat tracking teams into oblivion we were wilting in the face of any challenge or droplets of rain falling before we even get to the Hawthorn game at the end of the year. 2020 we were making excuses for hubs, last year it was clear the players weren't putting in and this year that has continued but we're excusing it with HBS and injuries.

Every year across this period people here have been calling for a more contested, run with game style that focuses on tackling and pressuring the ball carrier yet despite all the photos of tackling this preseason our players either aren't conditioned or choose not to chase and play defensive football. Yet the club wants us to laud the coach/leadership team and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We've had 3 years where a clear obvious deficiency hasn't been rectified, in any other performance based industry, let alone one where roles are being remunerated close to $1m a year, that is far too long to show some improvement.

Comparatively Adelaide were terrible last year and beat Melbourne and Geelong at home, why? Because they tried their guts out. That's all we, as fans, want to see regardless of results.
 
Chump Change said:
As we stand, I'm only liking Ashcroft and Warlord. Ashcroft just looks like that Bont/Pendles player - full of class and poise. Warlord has been compared to Clayton Oliver. My only know on Warlord is he's only 181cm. Is he going to grow? Is 181cm big enough? Warlord also has some Bull about him. Wines, Tracc, Oliver - they're all 186cm - 189cm. Cripps is 189cm.

Lemmey and Scully did nothing against Collingwood reserves. I suspect this is a size thing and may be related to why so many KPF's shine at u18s and then struggle in the AFL.

Let's see how they all go in the u18 champs.
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As I posted a few weeks back, Ashcroft is clear number and the weekend just further cemented that. Was good to see Wardlaw versus bigger bodies and he didn't disappoint me at all, so yep he's right up there. In terms of height, he has one of the best vertical leaps (standing, running) in the draft so unlike a Serong he can be a marking target.
I'm not writing off Hewett, I saw plenty of his games last year and he was absolutely elite. I just think he hasn't found his form yet!
Tsatas confirmed my red flags, unfortunately. Way too outside for us to consider.
Scully did what I thought he might, come up against a taller opposition and struggled. He's been up against kids giving away 10-15cm so far.
Lemmey really did disappoint, another like Hewett who hasn't been able to find their form. Last year he was amazing to watch.

Was good to see Clark and Hollands, both really good and showed their not that far behind a Wardlaw. So I still think dropping back a bit could be a smart move.

D'Aliola is a bit of a fan favourite for me. He makes things happen, and if he played on ball could've been the best player. At Half forward he kicked a lovely goal and broke from a stoppage to set up Tsatas.

I thought Broadbent was very good, he competed really really well in the ruck against much bigger bodies.

Munkarra was the other that really stood out to me, kid has some real talent!!!
 

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Cornelius Roy said:
I do agree with this, I was perhaps a little bit softer on it than you previous but I think the weekend tipped me over the edge.

We were meant to be a club so focused on culture with the friends, family, flags stuff but we've somehow now have a culture where players don't appear to be pushing themselves to do the basic things like chase and tackle. I'm just reading the insightful media thread now with articles claiming the eagles need Shuey, Mcgovern, Naitanui as they're fantastic leaders. They've been leaders while players have gotten to this point now when they're picking and choosing when to put in which should be a non-negotiable at ay club.

I have a big issue with the fact that the club has been, for want of a better word, "weak" since 2019 where if we're weren't flat tracking teams into oblivion we were wilting in the face of any challenge or droplets of rain falling before we even get to the Hawthorn game at the end of the year. 2020 we were making excuses for hubs, last year it was clear the players weren't putting in and this year that has continued but we're excusing it with HBS and injuries.

Every year across this period people here have been calling for a more contested, run with game style that focuses on tackling and pressuring the ball carrier yet despite all the photos of tackling this preseason our players either aren't conditioned or choose not to chase and play defensive football. Yet the club wants us to laud the coach/leadership team and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. We've had 3 years where a clear obvious deficiency hasn't been rectified, in any other performance based industry, let alone one where roles are being remunerated close to $1m a year, that is far too long to show some improvement.

Comparatively Adelaide were terrible last year and beat Melbourne and Geelong at home, why? Because they tried their guts out. That's all we, as fans, want to see regardless of results.
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There's other issues as well that get brought up a lot. One of them is fitness.

How is it possible to be in a flag window and some senior players are carrying weight?

I just don't buy that it's the S+C team all to blame. In my experience (and I'm sure in 100% of others), when you have an organisation that is inefficient, there's always 1 person who is causing it. There's always one person inhibiting other people and other teams.

In a vacuum, I don't believe any S+C team in the AFL would allow players to carry skin folds. It's professionally almost impossible. So there is someone getting in their way. Someone overruling them and allowing players leeway that makes in impossible for the S&C team to get the players to 100%.

Someone is doing it. I don't know who and why but the buck stops at the coach.
 
Eastcoasteagle said:
As I posted a few weeks back, Ashcroft is clear number and the weekend just further cemented that. Was good to see Wardlaw versus bigger bodies and he didn't disappoint me at all, so yep he's right up there. In terms of height, he has one of the best vertical leaps (standing, running) in the draft so unlike a Serong he can be a marking target.
I'm not writing off Hewett, I saw plenty of his games last year and he was absolutely elite. I just think he hasn't found his form yet!
Tsatas confirmed my red flags, unfortunately. Way too outside for us to consider.
Scully did what I thought he might, come up against a taller opposition and struggled. He's been up against kids giving away 10-15cm so far.
Lemmey really did disappoint, another like Hewett who hasn't been able to find their form. Last year he was amazing to watch.

Was good to see Clark and Hollands, both really good and showed their not that far behind a Wardlaw. So I still think dropping back a bit could be a smart move.

D'Aliola is a bit of a fan favourite for me. He makes things happen, and if he played on ball could've been the best player. At Half forward he kicked a lovely goal and broke from a stoppage to set up Tsatas.

I thought Broadbent was very good, he competed really really well in the ruck against much bigger bodies.

Munkarra was the other that really stood out to me, kid has some real talent!!!
Click to expand...
I too still have Ashcroft at #1. He just looks like that Bont/Pendles/Walsh Rolls Royce. Warlord - could be Oliver or even a bit more bull, but also might not come off.

During the game the commentators talked about certain players who in the equivalent game were just a standout. Reiwoldt was mentioned I think with Judd and some others. With Lemmey and Scully, I wouldn't go as far as red flag (because it's only one game) but it does reiterate the higher risk of taking a tall with a top 2 pick.

Our flag chances in 6-8 years time from now depend on who we draft in the next 3 seasons. We really do have to get it right.
 
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Chump Change said:
I too still have Ashcroft at #1. He just looks like that Bont/Pendles/Walsh Rolls Royce. Warlord - could be Oliver or even a bit more bull, but also might not come off.

During the game the commentators talked about certain players who in the equivalent game were just a standout. Reiwoldt was mentioned I think with Judd and some others. With Lemmey and Scully, I would go as far as red flag (because it's only one game) but it does reiterate the higher risk of taking a tall with a top 2 pick.

Our flag chances in 6-8 years time from now depend on who we draft in the next 3 seasons. We really do have to get it right.
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Agree the importance of drafting and trading the next few years
 
Think people should wrap their heads around a Florenca + Derksen combo.


Culley is so NOT a WCE type pick. Florenca is an absolute 100% lock to end up on our list, that's a given. After the Kelly fiasco I doubt the club will risk waiting until our second selection to get him, they'd be roasted alive and be an even bigger joke to the football community if they missed out.

Either way, it's still an improvement on what we already have on this list.


Joyce, Dixon, Strnadica, Nelson, JK, Hurn, Trew <--- There's a few there to be moved on for space at seasons end.
 
shooshka said:
I see no reason why we aren't taking 2 x MSD picks now we have freed up 2 spots. If we just wanted to take 1 then we could always have moved another player to inactive later on.

With that in mind, I also see no reason Florenca won't last until our 2nd pick. There will be around 12 teams with picks, so he'll only need to get to the early teens to be available at our 2nd.

It makes sense to take him at our 2nd, we have 2 mids who are likely to retire this year (Shuey and Redden) plus the young talent on our list is all tall. Florenca won't be stealing games from the youth, he would be helping them develop (and hopefully improving himself).

But we have the opportunity at (almost certainly) pick 1 to get a free hit at a young mid, the 'best of the rest' from a compromised draft last year. Would/should surely be a career killer for at least some in our list team if we overlook that.

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The only issue with this, practically, is that it seems like we may have promised to pick up Florenca and if we leave him to our second pick, someone else may swoop in. Clubs want to be seen as being true to their word, being seen as untrustworthy comes with consequences.
 
JackOutback said:
The only issue with this, practically, is that it seems like we may have promised to pick up Florenca and if we leave him to our second pick, someone else may swoop in. Clubs want to be seen as being true to their word, being seen as untrustworthy comes with consequences.
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If we promise to pick him up and someone gets him first, that’s not a huge deal. He’s still on an AFL list.

If we promise to pick him up and he goes undrafted, that’s more of an issue.
 
WCErevival said:
Is Florenca too old? Unless we plan on offloading some older mids to accomodate him.
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Has to be a limit to the number of good honest WAFL footsoldier mids that we pick up.

Florenca just turned 25. Clark turns 25 tomorrow. West just turned 23.
 
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