Review Dees v the Scraggers - the Good, the Bad the Fugly

[DemonJim]

Just this old bloke pretty much doing the same thing!

Ridiculous calls for frees even when their side weren't calling ball (which was an awful lot i might add)

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I'll give him that concession but Port Adelaide have shown that if you give your players realistic roles, purposeful roles and attacking roles you can turn things around quite quickly as long as the culture is there.

Yes, Port have some more talented players on their list but defensively they were a basket case in 2012.

In all honesty I have NFI how many talented players we have on our list because we aren't in the business of employing those talents at this point.

What we're doing atm is a double edged sword and citing the last two years doesn't change that. Not having a go at Roos because he's made great inroads but I can't see the day coming where we have the perfect defensive game because it doesn't exist in modern footy.

It's difficult without those bona fide superstars though - Boak, Wingard, Schulz, Gray, etc - even Westhoff and Hartlett are a class above the majority of players on our list.

 

[RandB]

It's difficult without those bona fide superstars though - Boak, Wingard, Schulz, Gray, etc - even Westhoff and Hartlett are a class above the majority of players on our list.

Hartlett hasn't had that great a year tbh, but the others have and I did recognise the talent differential.

My point though is Port attack. They bring those players you mentioned into the game. Boak is the only engine room player in that list, the others are mostly forward. We have Jones and Vince in the guts who are both pretty good.

Look what they've done with Polec. They gave him an ultimatum to perform but they also gave him a specific role which was based on his strengths as a footballer - run and carry. Obviously if he makes a defensive mistake or doesn't work hard enough both ways they let him know but they aren't throwing him in the reserves side until he plays the perfect defensive game.

In 2005 when Roos was at Sydney, defence was the new attack. Most clubs could score easily but it was the ability to defend which separated the good teams from the downhill skiers.

In 2014 attack is the new defence. With mauls and stacking the back line, most clubs can in some fashion lock down a game for at least a significant period of that game. It is those clubs which can move the ball fast between the arcs and score who have the advantage now. Hawthorn, Port, Sydney all looking hard to beat because they can do what most teams can't in modern congested footy - penetrate.

We did what we had to do in the first half of the year but I'm worried we are just going through the motions now until the end of the year.

Until we learn how to defend less in the traditional sense, i.e. have/keep the ball in our forward half, our defensive job will be much harder than necessary and this is the pressing factor for me. The reason Hawthorn, Port and Geelong defend so well relative to us is because they do less of it in the traditional sense.

We have 8 weeks left to see what sort of versatility we have in our team. I hope we use those 8 weeks wisely.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Hartlett hasn't had that great a year tbh, but the others have and I did recognise the talent differential.

My point though is Port attack. They bring those players you mentioned into the game. Boak is the only engine room player in that list, the others are mostly forward. We have Jones and Vince in the guts who are both pretty good.

Look what they've done with Polec. They gave him an ultimatum to perform but they also gave him a specific role which was based on his strengths as a footballer - run and carry. Obviously if he makes a defensive mistake or doesn't work hard enough both ways they let him know but they aren't throwing him in the reserves side until he plays the perfect defensive game.

In 2005 when Roos went to Sydney, defence was the new attack. Most clubs could score easily but it was the ability to defend which separated the good teams from the downhill skiers.

In 2014 attack is the new defence. With mauls and stacking the back line, most clubs can in some fashion lock down a game for at least a significant period of that game. It is those clubs which can move the ball fast between the arcs and score who have the advantage now. Hawthorn, Port, Sydney all looking hard to beat because they can do what most teams can't in modern congested footy - penetrate.

We did what we had to do in the first half of the year but I'm worried we are just going through the motions now until the end of the year.

Until we learn how to defend less in the traditional sense, i.e. have/keep the ball in our forward half, our defensive job will be much harder than necessary and this is the pressing factor for me. The reason Hawthorn, Port and Geelong defend so well relative to us is because they do less of it in the traditional sense.

We have 8 weeks left to see what sort of versatility we have in our team. I hope we use those 8 weeks wisely.

Yeah I agree, and I think there has to be an allowance for players like Blease and Tapscott to perfect their defensive game at AFL level, rather than forcing them to get it 100% playing in the seconds. These players have the attacking ability that Nicholson and Matt Jones simply don't, even if those two do defend better.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I'll give him that concession but Port Adelaide have shown that if you give your players realistic roles, purposeful roles and attacking roles you can turn things around quite quickly as long as the culture is there.

Yes, Port have some more talented players on their list but defensively they were a basket case in 2012.

In all honesty I have NFI how many talented players we have on our list because we aren't in the business of employing those talents at this point.

What we're doing atm is a double edged sword and citing the last two years doesn't change that. Not having a go at Roos because he's made great inroads but I can't see the day coming where we have the perfect defensive game because it doesn't exist in modern footy.

I get what you're saying mate, I think his selection on the weekend may well have cost us a game.
But.

He's got to stick to his values and select players based on that, especially when most of our guys are just learning the way he wants AFL footy played.

It's even more important with our more talented guys like Michie, Toumpas, Blease and Tappy as once they've got it right they'll be able to hold down a spot (hopefully).

I'm sure Roos would sacrifice a win for his values to be upholded at selection.

 

[RandB]

I get what you're saying mate, I think his selection on the weekend may well have cost us a game.
But.

He's got to stick to his values and select players based on that, especially when most of our guys are just learning the way he wants AFL footy played.

It's even more important with our more talented guys like Michie, Toumpas, Blease and Tappy as once they've got it right they'll be able to hold down a spot (hopefully).

I'm sure Roos would sacrifice a win for his values to be upholded at selection.

I'm on board with not making compromises for short term wins as well mate. I'm also big on Roosy's values.

As frustrating as it is to lose by a goal to a hapless Dogs outfit that is not my motivation for posting. It's more about the learning process itself that I'm wondering about. We've made great leaps in the accountability stakes this year. Even when we perform poorly it is (generally) not through a lack of trying. That in itself is a significant step. I just see a lot of aspects of our defensive game atm that seem counter productive simply because we're over defending.

I'm just not sure if it is entirely productive to see out the year this way. By productive I don't mean wins, I mean development. We have held off big losses but with mental and physical fatigue the losses will come anyway as will the frustrations with 8 games to go. I see quite a few players who have plateaued and just hope things don't go backwards after all the hard work so far this year. The losses themselves don't worry me as long as they are constructive.

 

[butters88]

Just watched the footage of the Dogs (i have no idea how to spell his name) game sealer and heard the commentators say why didn't they rush a behind... I wonder if the earlier deliberate call against Bail had any bearing on Frawley conceding

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Just watched the footage of the Dogs (i have no idea how to spell his name) game sealer and heard the commentators say why didn't they rush a behind... I wonder if the earlier deliberate call against Bail had any bearing on Frawley conceding

There's a chance. We probably still would have lost, given that goal was the last score of the game.

 

[d33my]

Just watched the footage of the Dogs (i have no idea how to spell his name) game sealer and heard the commentators say why didn't they rush a behind... I wonder if the earlier deliberate call against Bail had any bearing on Frawley conceding

I definitely reckon it did. The rule is such a grey area. I reckon we let through two goals yesterday after the Bail decision because we were too scared to rush.

 

[butters88]

Yeah... More likely we would have been pinged and handed them the game on a platter.
Saw the two incorrect disposals on Access All Areas. Is it just me or do these decisions late in a close game always seem to go against us?
I guess at the end of the day whinging on an internet forum isn't going to change the result or get us the 4 points but damn its frustrating

 

[d33my]

Yeah... More likely we would have been pinged and handed them the game on a platter.
Saw the two incorrect disposals on Access All Areas. Is it just me or do these decisions late in a close game always seem to go against us?
I guess at the end of the day whinging on an internet forum isn't going to change the result or get us the 4 points but damn its frustrating

Eh, I think it just always feels like that after a loss. The umpiring yesterday had all the integrity/consistency of a roadside chook raffle -- for both sides.

 

[butters88]

Eh, I think it just always feels like that after a loss. The umpiring yesterday had all the integrity/consistency of a roadside chook raffle -- for both sides.

I didn't see the game... The only farcical umpiring i'v seen have been of blunders against Melbourne

 

[d33my]

Umpires have lost the plot generally I think. Incorrect disposal doesn't exist anymore, chopping of the arms seems to be paid on an irregular out-of-a-hat basis, players ducking into tackles/getting head high contact seems to have everyone confused. The bad ones are there for everyone unfortunately.

Pretty telling when in the Roos presser he admitted 'I don't know the rules.' (after cheekily asking Marns (??) how much money the club had in the event of a Malthouse-esque rant)

 

[butters88]

Umpires have lost the plot generally I think. Incorrect disposal doesn't exist anymore, chopping of the arms seems to be paid on an irregular out-of-a-hat basis, players ducking into tackles/getting head high contact seems to have everyone confused. The bad ones are there for everyone unfortunately.

Pretty telling when in the Roos presser he admitted 'I don't know the rules.' (after cheekily asking Marns (??) how much money the club had in the event of a Malthouse-esque rant)

Yeah was good, Gary Lyon said pretty much the same thing. Its something that really needs addressing before it costs someone a finals spot/final as it seems to be against all teams

 

[Captain Jack]

Yeah was good, Gary Lyon said pretty much the same thing. Its something that really needs addressing before it costs someone a finals spot/final as it seems to be against all teams

They really just need to take it back to basics and stop trying to control the evolution of the game by changing 'interpretations' to reflect passing trends. It is farcical.

 

[CTHORANGE]

They really just need to take it back to basics and stop trying to control the evolution of the game by changing 'interpretations' to reflect passing trends. It is farcical.

Plus a million likes.

 

[Topkent]

Hartlett hasn't had that great a year tbh, but the others have and I did recognise the talent differential.

My point though is Port attack. They bring those players you mentioned into the game. Boak is the only engine room player in that list, the others are mostly forward. We have Jones and Vince in the guts who are both pretty good.

Look what they've done with Polec. They gave him an ultimatum to perform but they also gave him a specific role which was based on his strengths as a footballer - run and carry. Obviously if he makes a defensive mistake or doesn't work hard enough both ways they let him know but they aren't throwing him in the reserves side until he plays the perfect defensive game.

In 2005 when Roos was at Sydney, defence was the new attack. Most clubs could score easily but it was the ability to defend which separated the good teams from the downhill skiers.

In 2014 attack is the new defence. With mauls and stacking the back line, most clubs can in some fashion lock down a game for at least a significant period of that game. It is those clubs which can move the ball fast between the arcs and score who have the advantage now. Hawthorn, Port, Sydney all looking hard to beat because they can do what most teams can't in modern congested footy - penetrate.

We did what we had to do in the first half of the year but I'm worried we are just going through the motions now until the end of the year.

Until we learn how to defend less in the traditional sense, i.e. have/keep the ball in our forward half, our defensive job will be much harder than necessary and this is the pressing factor for me. The reason Hawthorn, Port and Geelong defend so well relative to us is because they do less of it in the traditional sense.

We have 8 weeks left to see what sort of versatility we have in our team. I hope we use those 8 weeks wisely.

Can I nominate this for post of the year??

Speed of ball movement is what is winning the flag in the next few years
We look horrible moving the ball slow yet decent when we move it quickly, Port Hawks and Sydney give there forwards a chance one out by moving it to them super fast between the arcs but we make it impossible for us to score by allowing huge numbers to zone back

However we only started attacking training a week or 2 ago and I wonder if Roos is going to train us to play like a boxer ...
Get out there, scratch around stay on your toes absorb some pressure and then go bang with a couple rights and a left, then when the opposition comes at you sit back again and defend

 

[CTHORANGE]

Can I nominate this for post of the year??

Speed of ball movement is what is winning the flag in the next few years
We look horrible moving the ball slow yet decent when we move it quickly, Port Hawks and Sydney give there forwards a chance one out by moving it to them super fast between the arcs but we make it impossible for us to score by allowing huge numbers to zone back

However we only started attacking training a week or 2 ago and I wonder if Roos is going to train us to play like a boxer ...
Get out there, scratch around stay on your toes absorb some pressure and then go bang with a couple rights and a left, then when the opposition comes at you sit back again and defend

This is how Sydney were under Roos, they didn't attack very often, but when they did they went all out and could score very quickly, and they only did it short bursts at very specific moments in games..

 

[The Black Sheep]

I need to get off the computer and go play outside.

 

[Billy Demon]

Umpires have lost the plot generally I think. Incorrect disposal doesn't exist anymore, chopping of the arms seems to be paid on an irregular out-of-a-hat basis, players ducking into tackles/getting head high contact seems to have everyone confused. The bad ones are there for everyone unfortunately.

Pretty telling when in the Roos presser he admitted 'I don't know the rules.' (after cheekily asking Marns (??) how much money the club had in the event of a Malthouse-esque rant)

Add to this the Adelaide press conference where they were asked if they understood the holding the ball rule - they laughed and walked out. Makes good theatre but how many major sports in the world have a situation where players, coaches, media and an assortment of other stakeholders don't understand all the rules. Rulebook is 96 pages long with too many rules open to too many interpretations. Some say this is a nice quirk - I say it's a joke. AFL umpires have memorized the book and understand it - that's great but what about everyone else? Seems like we want to create a new rule every time a new situation arises. So take the game back to basics, that is don't push in the back, don't trip, don't take someones head off, don't throw the ball and don't hold it too long without bouncing. We have created a crazy situation where we love the game but the complexity of the rules is turning it into a farce. Yesterday, MFC suffered as a result. And we wonder why people love going down to watch a local suburban game.

 

[MUYB]

Eh, I think it just always feels like that after a loss. The umpiring yesterday had all the integrity/consistency of a roadside chook raffle -- for both sides.

Umpires were awful throughout the game to both sides, but the mind sticks on the two late non-calls for incorrect disposal on Murphy and Cranmeri(I think) given the state of the game at the time.

 

[burem dees]

C'mon crew we were gifted a goal in last when Picken was penalised for a high tackle. Jamar also pulled Minson down on line.

We weren't good enough on the day and we dominated the ruck

Who on our list would you delist ?

 

[Crimson Azure]

Get out there, scratch around stay on your toes absorb some pressure and then go bang with a couple rights and a left, then when the opposition comes at you sit back again and defend

Rope-a-dope tactic.

 

[jhong]

Not that it makes any difference , the Umpires review of some decisions on the weekend , including Bails rushed behind.

 

[butters88]

Not that it makes any difference , the Umpires review of some decisions on the weekend , including Bails rushed behind.

Frustrating to see that all three of those calls were wrong. But i like that he explains why the umpires make those decisions and how they come to their conclusions, maybe Roos needs to get a hold of some of these clips and review them with the team