Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Super-mega-ultrathread

[Underdog]

Big overhaul needed.

I disagree.

Our forward line is very good.
Our defence is decent.
Our rucks are very good.
Our wings are solid.

It's our onballers that are struggling.

Our list doesn't need an overhaul, it needs targeted improvement. The recruiting policies and/or team could do with a refresh too.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I disagree.

Our forward line is very good.
Our defence is decent.
Our rucks are very good.
Our wings are solid.

It's our onballers that are struggling.

Our list doesn't need an overhaul, it needs targeted improvement. The recruiting policies and/or team could do with a refresh too.

Well onballers/Midfielders are football teams, without them no matter what you have up forward or in defence it means little.

So I will rephrase it Doggie, our entire midfield needs an overhaul.

 

[Agent93]

Nickoski
McGinnity
Dalziell
Mackenzie
LeCras
Shepherepard
McGovern
McCInness

/nazi

 

[Underdog]

So I will rephrase it Doggie, our entire midfield needs an overhaul.

Again, no it doesn't. We have some good midfielders at the club. The problem is that they don't have the top end talent to shield them from the important roles.

You insert Pendlebury and Swan into our midfield whilst retaining our current midfielders and we'd be premiership contenders.

Obviously that isn't going to happen but the issue is what we don't have, not what we do have.

 

[groga]

Again, no it doesn't. We have some good midfielders at the club. The problem is that they don't have the top end talent to shield them from the important roles.

You insert Pendlebury and Swan into our midfield whilst retaining our current midfielders and we'd be premiership contenders.

Obviously that isn't going to happen but the issue is what we don't have, not what we do have.

Add Martin to the mix and we are good to go!

 

[mattyc75]

i think rosa should be dangled as trade bait,he is still playing well and could be worth something at least more than smith anyway

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Again, no it doesn't. We have some good midfielders at the club. The problem is that they don't have the top end talent to shield them from the important roles.

You insert Pendlebury and Swan into our midfield whilst retaining our current midfielders and we'd be premiership contenders.

Obviously that isn't going to happen but the issue is what we don't have, not what we do have.

Therefore it needs an overhaul as we need to get players we don't have!!! Retaining what we do have is not going to work.

 

[Kaboodleer]

I think the fundamentals of our midfield aren't too bad just need to add depth.

1st tier:

C: Wellingham Scott Selwood Gaff

R: NN Masten Shuey

Rotations: Priddis, Rosa, LeCras, Kerr (maybe), Hutchings, Shep, Dalziell, Cripps?. I've probably forgot someone - let me know.

To me the starting mids are very solid if we can get them all playing together. All of them minus Gaff can win their own ball. Minus NN, SS all of them use the ball very well. I had a look at last weeks lineups for the top 5 on the ladder and on paper our lineup should be able to compete very well with theirs.

Problems:
1. Injuries: Against the dogs for instance: Shuey not there, Selwood out of form, Masten injured early, NN not there. Now I know that isn't really a fair reflection of the season as we have had better lineups and failed to perform but I do think there is a significant upside if that group can stay relatively healthy.

2. Depth: Let's please not start a Priddis debate here but I feel he is a solid part of the rotation and plays his role well. Rosa should be OK but has had a nothing year.
Kerr also should be good but his body seems to have given up on him. Hutchings - need to see more, seems OK but I would think you really only want one of him or Priddis in the one team. Shep - don't rate sorry. Dalziell - OK but very limited.

Obviously where I'm going with this is our rotations through the midfield during a game are not very good and our depth when players get injured is even worse. More so than overhauling the midfield we just need it to be deeper.

The real problem: Drive from the back line

Here's our back six as named against the Dogs.

HB: Carter EMac Smith
Schofield Brown Butler

+ Wilson rotating

In other games also had Brennan and A. Selwood.

I would argue this year we've been terrible at creating drive out of the back and this has flowed through to exacerbate our other problems. Again there is an injury story here. This would look a lot better if we had Hurn in there and I would argue a healthy Waters. It seems clear to me though that when you have a substantial number of kicks/run coming from Selwood, Brennan, Smith (technically good but not creative), Butler, Brown you are going to struggle.

Ideal back line is probably:

Glass EMac Waters
Schofield Brown Hurn

Rotating: Carter/Wilson/Smith/Brennan/Butler/Shep/ maybe Bennell?

As much as last year we thought we had lots of great HBFs as it turns out we just have lots of HBFS many of which can't do a whole lot for a variety of reasons.

The Draft:

Looking at http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2013-phantom-draft.983436/

I don't like the current projected pick of Josh Kelly, another Gaff isn't all that helpful to us.

Ideally I think we take a HB/mid. I like the idea of Ben Lennon (utility) who is apparently tall, explosive and an elite kick. OR Marcus Bontempelli (VIC – Mid/Def) who has similar attributes.

For pure mids: Nathan Freeman (VIC – Mid) apparently a Dangerfield/Shuey type has been talked about a fair bit seems like he would be too high risk at this stage for our first pick. Sheed "the most complete midfielder" seems like a great idea to me but he's projected to go end of first round so I don't know whats going on there. Said to be one paced but if he has an inside/outside game in spite of that I don't really mind.

 

[WCErevival]

....

I agree with the starting midfield bit. Especially considering the age/experience of most of them. It drops off quite quickly after those guys its why we have struggled a bit this year.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Ignore phantom drafts they're never close.

A draft is a composite of each clubs rankers and whispers are therefore almost irrelevant because they're from a limited number of recruiters and scouts. Useful to get an idea of players we know less about.

I could see us picking Freeman or Lennon above Sheed, beyond that id say he shapes up well against Billings, Crouch and Kelly. He's a superior pure midfielder to Billings who will thrive on a flank at AFL level, better user of the ball, better on the outside and a better athlete than Crouch and he's a vastly better inside player than Kelly.

 

[Monkey Worshipper]

I think the fundamentals of our midfield aren't too bad just need to add depth.

1st tier:

C: Wellingham Scott Selwood Gaff

R: NN Masten Shuey

Rotations: Priddis, Rosa, LeCras, Kerr (maybe), Hutchings, Shep, Dalziell, Cripps?. I've probably forgot someone - let me know.

2. Depth: Let's please not start a Priddis debate here but I feel he is a solid part of the rotation and plays his role well....

For Gods Sake,

Priddis cannot play anywhere but the guts, and he can't do that well either, with his dicky little 1m handballs that sell his team-mates into more problems or beautiful helicopter kicks.

He is the most one-dimensional player on our list. Don't delude yourself, he can't play anywhere else. Opposition teams love him, they just run off him and carve him up all day.

 

[Spartan]

For Gods Sake,

Priddis cannot play anywhere but the guts, and he can't do that well either, with his dicky little 1m handballs that sell his team-mates into more problems or beautiful helicopter kicks.

He is the most one-dimensional player on our list. Don't delude yourself, he can't play anywhere else. Opposition teams love him, they just run off him and carve him up all day.

Priddis is far from our worst player or midfielder for that matter.

I'm sure I'll get shot down for using 'statistics' but Champion Data ranks a player's effectiveness in a game and Priddis ranks pretty well and taking out his concussion game against Port he has the highest average of any Eagle mid, in the top 30 mids in the AFL and higher than guys like Goddard, Deledio, A.Swallow, Boyd, Judd, etc. Not bad for a spud opposition teams love.

Not every player in the team is a superstar. When we had Judd, Cousins and Kerr we still had Rowan Jones who's kicking would make Priddis look like Pendlebury.

The problem isn't Priddis perse, its the fact that he has to be one of our best mids. Shuey has A grade potential, if we can get another A grader (a fit Kerr would be nice) the midfield will click.

On one of the previous posts on the midfield needing an overhaul, one of the responses was spot on - we don't need an overhaul we need targeted improvement. Hopefully getting an A grade mid with our first pick and somehow jagging Yarran to inject some pace will put us on the right path.

 

[Patron]

They way I see it we have too many players on our list that are no where near good enough to lift us into premiership mode, and to many older players we are carrying. Some tough calls need to be made if we want to start to climb back up the ladder.
Delist/trade:
Dick
Nicoski
Selwood(A)
Embley
Butler
Newman

Trade bait
Rosa
Gaff
Shuey
Smith

Target
Yarren
Thomas
Possibly Bellchambers if Cox retires.

Our best young mid, inside/outside with pace and footskills. Your crazy.

 

[pantskyle]

I wouldn't trade Scooter unless a top 5 pick was offered and even then I would need my arm twisted.

Hasn't had a good season but we have seen how damaging he can be. A good preseason is all he needs.

 

[twce13]

Therefore it needs an overhaul as we need to get players we don't have!!! Retaining what we do have is not going to work.

Hence the draft.
Quick fixes (trade in needed players) only work if you have adequate depth and currency to make trades. Outside expansion teams this isn't a realistic solution.

Accepting our club isn't as close to a premiership as we hoped will be better then an overhaul which will effectively set us back even further. The most value and sensible way to build a list has always been the same, via the draft (admittedly free agency has allowed a new dimension to list management also) and progressively building a winning list.

Our midfield core is pretty young and it would be an error to look to replace these guys, we just need more talent added to the squad and replacing the older 'prime movers' in midfield.

 

[bodazoka]

On the up side our first pick this draft is going to be a very good one :/

Hopefully this is a good draft for mids and we can find another Wingard at pick #6 ish.. Pick #6 midfielder and try to stooge Richmond for Conca with our second and we are laughing.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

When Kerr is at his best he is that missing ingredient that our midfield needs hitting the contest hard and breaking away . If we can draft an A grader with our first round pick and expose him at afl level next year if Kerr retired at end of next year the new draftee ( sheed) can slot in ! Even next year the draftee can add to midfield rotation . Yarran would be nice but I hope wce don't use our first pick . He does not have the tank for midfield he is a burst player . If he was capable of playing mid Carlton would have done it !

 

[Spooky17]

On one of the previous posts on the midfield needing an overhaul, one of the responses was spot on - we don't need an overhaul we need targeted improvement. Hopefully getting an A grade mid with our first pick and somehow jagging Yarran to inject some pace will put us on the right path.

This is spot on.

Keep first pick and select the 'best available talent' at that pick (e.g. Sheed/Freeman for me), and then draft or trade to fill the needs with the remainder of the picks (i.e. either elite speed, good kicking skills, or and inside monster.. ideally all three traits obviously).

 

[Spartan]

On the up side our first pick this draft is going to be a very good one :/

Hopefully this is a good draft for mids and we can find another Wingard at pick #6 ish.. Pick #6 midfielder and try to stooge Richmond for Conca with our second and we are laughing.

If we're stooging someone prefer it to be Carlton for Yarran.

 

[southcoast]

Some interesting thoughts here.

Taking a slightly different, but related, tack over the last two years we have performed reasonably well, albeit we didn't go that deeply into the finals.

All comments are IMO.

Our 2012 All Australians
Glass - while not as good as last year he has been more than serviceable year with a distinct lack of a defensive support crew this year.
Cox - sub par performance.
Naitanui - sub par performance due to injury
Waters - sub par performance due to injury

Our 2012 Rebounders Defenders
Water - see above
Hurn - injured for large chunk of the season and without his partner in crime (Waters) for much of the year.
Schofield - sub par year.

Our Feed It Into the Forward Line Players (In addition to the rebounding defenders)
Rosa - injured for much of 2013
Embley - injuries and below form
Schuey - injuries

Problems as I see it - which need addressing. Note these are not in order of importance.
Our three key defenders from this year (MacKenzie, Glass & Brown) don't give enough drive from defence. Think Jakovich, Hunter, et al. Combine this issue with the loss of our rebounding defenders made any attack from defence a little ho hum in 2013.

Our midfield problems are self evident and have been compounded by a sub par year from Kerr, Embley, Rosa, Schuey, and for the first part of the year Gaff. Priddis has delivered to capacity - which was exposed in spades in 2013. Need quicker, large body inside mids + outside mids who can spread and run and carry and deliver.

We lack a small lock down defender who can also run out of defense. At the moment this role seems to be given to Butler. While Butler has done a reasonable job he has been exposed in too many games in 2013, particularly those when upfield pressure has been lacking.

We lack a nippy small forward to crumb off the spoils coming from Darling and Kennedy. Opposition find it too easy to run the ball out of defence and spot up their passes.

Too many of our players lack good foot skills. How often do we see the ball bombed into the forward line, the ball spoiled and rammed back down our throats.

 

[SpaceClef]

I wouldn't trade Scooter unless a top 5 pick was offered and even then I would need my arm twisted.

Hasn't had a good season but we have seen how damaging he can be. A good preseason is all he needs.

Like the most recent pre-season?

 

[Turboman1994]

Goes with out saying our first pick is absolutely critical to our future successes. We need a midfield general to take over from kerr. I really like the sound of billings bompetelli (spelling?) and lennon good foot skills but there more bread and butter at the minute hence the reason im leaning towards Sheed,Dunstan or crouch could reall use another pick in the top 7

 

[Chris_6678]

I wouldn't trade Scooter unless a top 5 pick was offered and even then I would need my arm twisted.

Hasn't had a good season but we have seen how damaging he can be. A good preseason is all he needs.

People how forget how good he was last year... He was returning to form in the Hawks game then he got injured. He also needs to bulk back up like last year as i have noticed he is looking pretty skinny.

 

[ziad]

When Kerr is at his best he is that missing ingredient that our midfield needs hitting the contest hard and breaking away . If we can draft an A grader with our first round pick and expose him at afl level next year if Kerr retired at end of next year the new draftee ( sheed) can slot in ! Even next year the draftee can add to midfield rotation . Yarran would be nice but I hope wce don't use our first pick . He does not have the tank for midfield he is a burst player . If he was capable of playing mid Carlton would have done it !

at his best kerr is A+ there are only 4-5 in the comp. He is leaving big shoes to fill. We need:
one very fast mid - ala hill
one powerful mid - ala kennedy or watson

Both must have good skills.
We dont have the cattle to grow into either role but ??

 

[SpaceClef]

If we're stooging someone prefer it to be Carlton for Yarran.

Nah, Conca is a better prospect IMO