Does it take too long for clubs to rebuild their lists?

[Obeanie1]

Yep and they'll do that until they fall off the cliff. Then they'll have to rebuild primarily by the draft.

Only the cats have managed to continuously contend by topping up.

And why can Geelong do that successfully and not Collingwood?

Both are destination clubs. Geelong with a lower cost of living advantage.

Recently Pies have loaded up with father sons and getting another next season. Cats last father son was?

 

[tiger_tough]

Wrong.

Is it F all picks? No.

Did they split two early 1sts in 2022 and this year to land two extra 1sts? Yes.

And traded a player for a F1st? Yes.

So no. Not all natural picks.

BTW this isn't a tit for tat Eagles V Richmond. My response was to a silly suggestion that the Eagles had / have F all picks. Which is disengenuous posting.

It's a discussion about how different clubs rebuild differently.

CBF looking it up but 7 over 5 wouldn't be in the top half a dozen clubs.

You brought up Richmond

 

[tiger_tough]

And why can Geelong do that successfully and not Collingwood?

Both are destination clubs. Geelong with a lower cost of living advantage.

Recently Pies have loaded up with father sons and getting another next season. Cats last father son was?

Geelong are the best run club in the league for starters. Their drafting, recruiting and development is better than any other club.

Plus the fact that they can offer a country/coastal lifestyle while still being a Vic team and play big games at the G.

 

[Obeanie1]

Geelong are the best run club in the league for starters. Their drafting, recruiting and development is better than any other club.

Plus the fact that they can offer a country/coastal lifestyle while still being a Vic team and play big games at the G.

Right.

And Collingwood?

The destination club that just signed, Perryman ( corrected) Houston and Membrey.

 

[tiger_tough]

Right.

And Collingwood?

The destination club that just signed Cummings, Houston and Membrey.

What about them? Theyre not at Geelongs level.

Nothing extraordinary about those acquisitions. Houston is open about wanting to go to Carlton, but they prioritised the draft. I think you mean Perryman, and they're paying him a ridiculous amount.

Pies are near the top in terms of appeal for Vic clubs though, sure. They're the biggest club down here.

 

[HairyO]

Right.

And Collingwood?

The destination club that just signed Cummings, Houston and Membrey.

Only one of those is a sign of being a destination club.

 

[Toffee Lion]

I don't disagree.

That puts your rebuild at the nine year mark, rather than the five years used to attack Carlton and Essendon with.

Does a rebuild end with a flag? I'd argue that 2019 marked the end of the "rebuild" and we entered into contention mode thereafter.

If you want a start date for when we really started to hit rock bottom and rebuild, it would be the 2014 season. End of 2013 we were a win out of finals, had just sacked Voss and then hit with the Go Home 5, forcing us to properly hit the reset button.

So 2014-2019 is a better timeframe of our list rebuild. Then you throw on a few years of tinkering (while contending) with trades/FA/Draft to eventually reach 2023/24 with Grand Final appearances.

 

[Obeanie1]

Only one of those is a sign of being a destination club.

Um no. All three could have chosen another destination.

They chose Collingwood.

 

[Gethelred]

Does a rebuild end with a flag? I'd argue that 2019 marked the end of the "rebuild" and we entered into contention mode thereafter.

9 year mark refers to flag, not contention.

If you want a start date for when we really started to hit rock bottom and rebuild, it would be the 2014 season. End of 2013 we were a win out of finals, had just sacked Voss and then hit with the Go Home 5, forcing us to properly hit the reset button.

So 2014-2019 is a better timeframe of our list rebuild. Then you throw on a few years of tinkering (while contending) with trades/FA/Draft to eventually reach 2023/24 with Grand Final appearances.

Again: it takes a long time to go from rock bottom to flag. That's the entire point of the posts. You cannot categorically demonstrate what 'contention' is, so when referring to the spans of time required to rebuild you refer to the duration between rock bottom and a flag because - frankly - everything you do between rock bottom and the flag can arguably be categorised as part of the rebuild.

Now, you can try and argue that you were in contention between 2019 and 2022, but that is a silly argument to make. A team can make top 4 without contending - see, Geelong and WB in 2003-05; Geelong most of the last decade; Port when they've made top 4 under Hinkley, Adelaide when they made top 4 under Neil Craig - so you cannot position having made top 4 as the end of your rebuild.

No. Your rebuild took around 9 years, from inception to flag, because that's the only way to look at it objectively. Any other criteria brings subjectivity into play.

 

[adammania9]

Yep and they'll do that until they fall off the cliff. Then they'll have to rebuild primarily by the draft.

Only the cats have managed to continuously contend by topping up.

Collingwood has only recently adopted this strategy, and the early results are promising. Geelong and Collingwood have returned the same number of premierships with this strategy - one each.

 

[tiger_tough]

Collingwood has only recently adopted this strategy, and the early results are promising. Geelong and Collingwood have returned the same number of premierships with this strategy - one each.

Nah not really.

Pies weren't that old in 2023. Cats have been the oldest or second oldest for years. Also, they've managed to stay up there for 15 odd years. Pies dropped straight out after 1 flag. Time will tell if they can get back up there and stay there.

 

[Toffee Lion]

9 year mark refers to flag, not contention.

Again: it takes a long time to go from rock bottom to flag. That's the entire point of the posts. You cannot categorically demonstrate what 'contention' is, so when referring to the spans of time required to rebuild you refer to the duration between rock bottom and a flag because - frankly - everything you do between rock bottom and the flag can arguably be categorised as part of the rebuild.

Now, you can try and argue that you were in contention between 2019 and 2022, but that is a silly argument to make. A team can make top 4 without contending - see, Geelong and WB in 2003-05; Geelong most of the last decade; Port when they've made top 4 under Hinkley, Adelaide when they made top 4 under Neil Craig - so you cannot position having made top 4 as the end of your rebuild.

No. Your rebuild took around 9 years, from inception to flag, because that's the only way to look at it objectively. Any other criteria brings subjectivity into play.

By your measure, Carlton have been rebuilding since the 90s? That just doesn't make sense to me.

If you want to argue "Does it take too long for clubs to win a flag"? I'd be in your camp but the thread title doesn't mention a flag. I look at a list rebuild as systemically rebuilding from the bottom to then compete once again. Whether a flag is achieved doesn't diminish that a rebuild took place.

A team can rebuild, compete but fall short and then scrap it and try again. That's a whole new rebuild, not a continuation.

As we're seeing in the modern era though, a lot of clubs forego the "rebuild" mantra and aim to stay competitive through trading & FA. Looking at Geelong for instance.

Also we definitely agree to disagree that the Lions were contending through 2019-22. Any team that finishes Top 4 is within a shot, we had a Prelim at the GABBA in 2020 which would have led into a GF at the GABBA. That is a contender.

 

[adammania9]

Nah not really.

Pies weren't that old in 2023. Cats have been the oldest or second oldest for years. Also, they've managed to stay up there for 15 odd years. Pies dropped straight out after 1 flag. Time will tell if they can get back up there and stay there.

Geelong also dropped straight out after a flag. Collingwood hasn’t yet had the chance to return to finals in the 2nd year after

 

[tiger_tough]

Geelong also dropped straight out after a flag. Collingwood hasn’t yet had the chance to return to finals in the 2nd year after

Let me know when Pies have been up there for near 2 decades.

 

[hawkman]

I think we're seeing with North, WCE and to lesser extents Haw and Adel that if you're forced to do a cut to the bone rebuild stripping it back to the core then yes it takes too long.

North today don't look like a club that's hit rock bottom yet.
Genuinely look like they'll get worse before they improve from here.

I know this is from April but it shows how quickly things can change. Get your decisions right and you can be back with 4 years

We made some errors between 2016 and 2020 and it set us back. Have got most decisions right since then and we back in the top 6.

Taking the next step then needs further good decision making

 

[Fadge]

Let me know when Pies have been up there for near 2 decades.

Go to AFL Tables and check out our record since 2002....

Only three teams have played in 6 Grand Finals each in that time - Geelong, Collingwood and Sydney.

 

[Xtreme]

We can't all be like the mighty Geelong Cats and regenerate the team every 2nd year.


Shhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeesh.

 

[HairyO]

Um no. All three could have chosen another destination.

They chose Collingwood.

But who wanted them? Houston was the only one sought after by more than one club. By your logic the Roos are a destination club.

 

[hawkman]

But who wanted them? Houston was the only one sought after by more than one club. By your logic the Roos are a destination club.

Perryman was sought after by a few