TradeDraft
Post-Human
Lawyers are the biggest winners out of this
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
News Dons ASADA scandal (Latest: Pg 101 - CAS verdict. Guilty, 12 months.)
- Thread starter popin
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Jan 12, 2011
- 25,405
- 35,588
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
No the players who play clean are
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,987
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
This is true.
Lawyers may make money, but ultimately because people want to argue and argue and argue some more and feed the beast.
Anzacday
Moderator
- Moderator
- #3,529
For those that can't access the above link...
NATHAN Lovett-Murray was in Queensland for an injection session.
Sidelined with injury on a club trip north, the Essendon playmaker was taken to a doctor’s clinic in the Gold Coast hinterland.
Lovett-Murray told Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority investigators he was injected “10 times, maybe more” in the company of two teammates, David Myers and David Hille, and former club fitness boss Dean “The Weapon” Robinson.
He returned a few days later and received another 10 needles, believed to be of an approved muscle relaxant, this time in the presence of sports scientist Stephen Dank and veteran club doctor Bruce Reid.
“Do you know what they were putting in to you?” ASADA investigator Aaron Walker asked Lovett-Murray during his formal interview 18 months later.
“Oh, I can’t remember,” he replied.
Walker: That’s OK. And the fact that Dr Reid came with you on that second occasion, did that give you a bit more confidence about the process?
Lovett-Murray: Oh, he was only coming to have a look at it, but then sort of afterwards he said it was a load of bulls***.
They are among 34 past and present Bombers slapped with season-long suspensions this week by the Court of Arbitration for Sport for use of the banned peptide Thymosin beta-4.
The ruling has cost Lovett-Murray, 33, who retired from the AFL two seasons ago, his job as playing-coach of Rumbalara, an indigenous team in Shepparton.
Watson, 31 next month, may never play again and faces being stripped of his 2012 Brownlow Medal.
ASADA boss Ben McDevitt this week declared the Essendon 34 had “at best not asked the questions they should have, and at worst were complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment”.
But Jess claimed Dr Reid’s presence at the Gold Coast clinic where Lovett-Murray was injected flies in the face of McDevitt’s statement.
“Nathan was under the clear impression that the program had the sanction of the club doctor,” Jess said on Saturday.
“At no stage did Bruce Reid, either individually or collectively, tell Nathan not to be a part of this regimen or warn him that there were dangers. So in his mind it was a legitimate supplements program.
“He didn’t say, ‘Don’t do it’.”
DOC IN THE DARK?
THE Court of Arbitration for Sport didn’t buy it.
In Tuesday’s 48-page judgment, CAS found Dr Reid, who gave evidence for the World Anti-Doping Agency at the hearing, had been kept in the dark about Essendon’s 2012 drugs program.
“The closed circle of officials within the club privy to Mr Dank’s regimen were careful to ensure that even the club doctor was not aware of it,” it said.
“The panel were not prepared to accept that because Dr Reid was privy to the player Mr Lovett-Murray being injected with muscle relaxant by another professional practitioner ... doubt should be cast upon his ignorance of the injections of Thymosin by Mr Dank.
“That was a submission too far.”
Walker: Did he?
Lovett-Murray: I wish he had told me that earlier.
Walker: Twenty injections ago?
Lovett-Murray: Yeah.
AGENT HAS FRONT ROW SEAT
VETERAN AFL player agent Peter Jess has had front row seats to football’s greatest scandal.
He has managed Lovett-Murray since 2006 and until late 2012 took care of Jobe Watson’s affairs.
The CAS said not one of the 34 players bothered to ask Dr Reid — “the obvious port of call” — for advice about Thymosin “although all signed a consent form for its administration”.
“Given that it is the primary responsibility of a player to ensure that he does not make use of a prohibited substance, the players’ lack of curiosity is fatal to the success of this particular plea,” the panel said.
“The players, during the season, were instructed to keep it secret.”
Reid, 69, remains at Essendon and is one of the last men standing amid the wreckage.
MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR LEGAL ACTION GUARANTEED
APPEALS against the CAS decision to a Swiss court or the Supreme Court of Victoria are being considered, but Jess said multi-million-dollar legal actions against Essendon and the AFL were guaranteed.
He has engaged Tony Nolan SC to assess whether Lovett-Murray also has claims against AFL commissioners and Essendon board members.
“We will explore every avenue and whether individuals have breached their duties as directors,” Jess said.
Asked why the AFL was at risk of litigation, Jess said: “In my mind the AFL is the primary culprit in creating this catastrophic outcome for the players.
“At every chain of command they have failed in their duty of care.”
Jess said a “warning” given to Bombers coach James Hird about the use of peptides by league integrity chief Brett Clothier in August 2011 should have triggered action.
“Clothier, at that point, under the mandate of the AFL, which is required at all times to ensure the welfare of players, was compelled to intervene, to test players, to test the supplements and engage in a monitoring system,” he said.
“None of that happened, which ultimately would have stopped the program.”
He predicted AFL chairman Mike Fitzpatrick would not survive fallout from the suspensions.
“The most galling aspect for me is that within this period of a complete dereliction of their responsibilities to the players, the AFL commission awarded its executive $7 million in bonuses, including payouts to Andrew Demetriou, who was a key architect of the failures,” Jess said.
“It calls into question whether the commission is the proper body the code needs going forward.
“I don’t think the chairman (Fitzpatrick) — because of his intimate involvement in this fundamentally flawed investigation — has any option but to resign.”
As for Watson’s Brownlow, Jess said: “Not only should he keep it, but they should give him a public apology for allowing this happen”.
PLAYERS JUST STUNNED
TUESDAY’S verdict stunned even the most pessimistic in the players’ camp.
Almost everyone believed a “no significant fault” clause would be applied if the players were found guilty, restricting suspensions to a handful of weeks.
A decision on whether to appeal will be made by within days and must demonstrate that the CAS made an error in law.
The aim would be to freeze the suspensions and permit the players to take the field this season.
“The CAS case is flawed because what they have done is deliver a collective judgment without looking at each individual case,” Jess said.
Appeal or no appeal, he said he believed the drugs saga would drag on for years.
“This has had an absolute ripple effect,” he said. “It’s not just the 34 players, it’s their families, children, friends and the hundreds of people attached to these players in every level of their life.
“It’s the greatest sporting catastrophe I’ve ever seen.”
ASADA INTERVIEW EXERPT
Exchange between ASADA investigator Aaron Walker and Nathan Lovett-Murray, May 14, 2013
ASADA: So whose idea was it originally for you to go up there and have those injections?
LOVETT-MURRAY: Dean Robinson.
ASADA: Dean Robinson. And did you trust what he was saying?
LM: Yeah.
ASADA: Did you believe it was going to be for your benefit?
LM: Yeah. Yep.
ASADA: Now, it wasn’t just you was it? A couple of other people went up with you.
LM: Yep.
ASADA: Can you recall who they were?
LM: David Myers and David Hille.
-----------------------------------------------
ASADA: What about Stephen Dank?
LM: He wasn’t there the first time but the second time Danks was there and also Dr Reid.
ASADA: Dr Reid.
LM: Yeah.
ASADA: So the treatment they did on the second time when Dr Reid and Steve Dank were present: was it the same type of treatment?
LM: Yep.
ASADA: How many needles did you get the second time?
LM: Oh, same — yeah, about 10.
ASADA: Do you know what they were putting into you?
LM: Oh, I can’t remember.
-----------------------------------------------
ASADA: That’s OK. And the fact that Dr Reid came with you on that second occasion, did that give you a bit more confidence about the process?
LM: Oh, he was only coming to have a look at it, but then sort of afterwards he said it was a load of bullshit.
ASADA: Did he?
LM: I wish he had told me that earlier.
ASADA: Twenty injections ago.
LM: Yeah.
ASADA: Was he pretty outspoken like that — Dr Reid?
LM: Yeah. Like if he said it was — if it wasn’t working, he’d say it, yeah,
ASADA: Did he have any view on the supplementation program that Essendon was — that Stephen Dank was running?
LM: Not that I can remember.
ASADA: That’s OK. Because part of the stuff I’ve been asking people is that I had heard Dr Reid had some issues with the supplementation program, and he wrote a letter at one stage. Did you hear anything like that at all?
LM: No.
Dynamics
Cancelled
- Jul 23, 2007
- 6,791
- 11,875
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
How is Reid still the doctor at that club? At any club?
He stood and watched Lovett Murray cop a second series of injections of a dubious nature then, and only when prompted by NLM, does he offer casually that they were a "load of bullshit".
Gee, thanks "doc".
He stood and watched Lovett Murray cop a second series of injections of a dubious nature then, and only when prompted by NLM, does he offer casually that they were a "load of bullshit".
Gee, thanks "doc".
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,987
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
My issue with Dr Reid is that he had 45 patients or thereabouts the players.
Their health is his primary duty of care.
He failed at that level, shouldn't be there on that basis alone.
Fitzpatrick, nasty person, horrible demeanour, arrogant, nasty, can't believe such a horrible person can be I his position. Enough said, makes the skin crawl
Their health is his primary duty of care.
He failed at that level, shouldn't be there on that basis alone.
Fitzpatrick, nasty person, horrible demeanour, arrogant, nasty, can't believe such a horrible person can be I his position. Enough said, makes the skin crawl
eddiebankbalance
Norm Smith Medallist
- Banned
- #3,532
When the drugs wear off; James is looking a bit pale lately.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
- 25,934
- 32,081
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Schraderbrau
Cancelled
- Oct 7, 2014
- 5,371
- 6,647
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Actually if you get past the immediate financial benefit, a lot of lawyers involved have come off pretty bad and given the scale of publicity in this saga it's extremely pretty bad advertising
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,987
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Lawyers as a rule arent concerned about how they look in the public eye
TradeDraft
Post-Human
Maybe but Lawyers will make Millions out of this
http://www.theshovel.com.au/2016/01/15/james-hird-denies-ever-being-coach-at-essendon/
Unhindered by contractual obligations or court proceedings, James Hird speaks exclusively to The Shovel about what really happened during Essendon’s disastrous 2012 season.
“Of all of the questions asked by fans in response to Tuesday’s shocking and unfair decision by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, one stands out: Were you actually coach of Essendon during the 2012 and 2013 seasons?
Today is my first chance to publicly answer this question, unconstrained by the contractual obligations a coach must observe and free of pressure applied by the AFL. I can finally offer a more detailed explanation to 34 young men and their families. Players who absolutely do not deserve this fate.
To put it simply, when I was offered the job of Head Coach at Essendon in September 2010, I didn’t take the job. At least not in any real sense. Sure, I was around the club a bit. I headed press conferences after most/all games. And I took full credit for wins, when we had them. But it’s a leap to say I was in any way in charge of the playing group.
Yes, I taught them about sacrifice, about love for the club, about hard work and trust. I told them about the importance of dying for the club and for the coach. Really, actually dying if necessary. I taught them about winning at all costs. And some hair colouring techniques.
I also demanded loyalty – total ****ing unquestioning loyalty. And in return I promised to get to know each and every one of the players personally, to find out what made them tick, what they wanted to achieve, what motivated them to be great players.
So as you can see, I was pretty hands-off.
In 2012 I hired Dean Robinson, and in turn Stephen Dank. I don’t intend to go through every detail of every interaction I had with them, lest I inadvertently give away useful information that sheds light on what actually took place that year.
But what I can say is that it was the club’s Sliding Doors moment. I’m not sure if you’ve seen Sliding Doors? Basically it’s about how Gwyneth Paltrow misses a train, setting off two parallel realities, one where she catches her husband having an affair, the other where she doesn’t. In our case we set up a program to inject 34 players with human growth hormone. The similarities are undeniable.
(How different Essendon’s 2013-15 seasons would have been had that selfish arseh*le on the train held the door open for a few more seconds when I was trying to get back to Toorak one night after work. We can only dream).
So as it’s pretty plain to see, I wasn’t really coaching at Essendon in 2012. I ran the odd handball drill, offered a tip here and there about tanning. But that was it. Dean Robinson was in charge of our football club. And as a guy with an impeccable background as a rodeo performer, that made sense.
I circulated the Essendon organisational structure today just to clear up any misunderstandings about reporting lines. But really, there shouldn’t be any surprises. As Head Coach I reported to Thomas Bellchambers.
So, in summary, who was really responsible for the injection program that led to 34 players getting suspended for a season? Quite simply, everyone else. The staff, the media, the AFL, and to some extent – let’s be totally honest here – you.
But was I in any way responsible, even in some small way? To believe that, you’d also have to believe that I had some kind of senior role, or at least some level of influence at the Essendon Football Club. And that is the stuff of conspiracy theories”.
Unhindered by contractual obligations or court proceedings, James Hird speaks exclusively to The Shovel about what really happened during Essendon’s disastrous 2012 season.
“Of all of the questions asked by fans in response to Tuesday’s shocking and unfair decision by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, one stands out: Were you actually coach of Essendon during the 2012 and 2013 seasons?
Today is my first chance to publicly answer this question, unconstrained by the contractual obligations a coach must observe and free of pressure applied by the AFL. I can finally offer a more detailed explanation to 34 young men and their families. Players who absolutely do not deserve this fate.
To put it simply, when I was offered the job of Head Coach at Essendon in September 2010, I didn’t take the job. At least not in any real sense. Sure, I was around the club a bit. I headed press conferences after most/all games. And I took full credit for wins, when we had them. But it’s a leap to say I was in any way in charge of the playing group.
Yes, I taught them about sacrifice, about love for the club, about hard work and trust. I told them about the importance of dying for the club and for the coach. Really, actually dying if necessary. I taught them about winning at all costs. And some hair colouring techniques.
I also demanded loyalty – total ****ing unquestioning loyalty. And in return I promised to get to know each and every one of the players personally, to find out what made them tick, what they wanted to achieve, what motivated them to be great players.
So as you can see, I was pretty hands-off.
In 2012 I hired Dean Robinson, and in turn Stephen Dank. I don’t intend to go through every detail of every interaction I had with them, lest I inadvertently give away useful information that sheds light on what actually took place that year.
But what I can say is that it was the club’s Sliding Doors moment. I’m not sure if you’ve seen Sliding Doors? Basically it’s about how Gwyneth Paltrow misses a train, setting off two parallel realities, one where she catches her husband having an affair, the other where she doesn’t. In our case we set up a program to inject 34 players with human growth hormone. The similarities are undeniable.
(How different Essendon’s 2013-15 seasons would have been had that selfish arseh*le on the train held the door open for a few more seconds when I was trying to get back to Toorak one night after work. We can only dream).
So as it’s pretty plain to see, I wasn’t really coaching at Essendon in 2012. I ran the odd handball drill, offered a tip here and there about tanning. But that was it. Dean Robinson was in charge of our football club. And as a guy with an impeccable background as a rodeo performer, that made sense.
I circulated the Essendon organisational structure today just to clear up any misunderstandings about reporting lines. But really, there shouldn’t be any surprises. As Head Coach I reported to Thomas Bellchambers.
So, in summary, who was really responsible for the injection program that led to 34 players getting suspended for a season? Quite simply, everyone else. The staff, the media, the AFL, and to some extent – let’s be totally honest here – you.
But was I in any way responsible, even in some small way? To believe that, you’d also have to believe that I had some kind of senior role, or at least some level of influence at the Essendon Football Club. And that is the stuff of conspiracy theories”.
JollyBallsUp
Club Legend
- Jan 6, 2011
- 1,824
- 1,124
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Barcelona, Bayern Munich
James Hird was adamant that they were innocent for the past 3 years and they would be vindicated. Now he has excepted the finding of CAS and is he now blaming very one but himself. Despite this the facts are that he has had a change of view given the finding are now out in the public domain.
My view is that he knew they were guilty but insisted that they were innocent because he didn't expect that the case would be taken up by WADA. Once WADA got hold of the evidence there was no way they could keep the findings a secrete.
TradeDraft
Post-Human
Shows what a Slime Ball he is. When found Guilty it's everyone else's fault and when he was the HEAD COACH. PATHETIC
The AFL comes off looking very, very shabby here, it was all about containing the damage and not a jot else
Dr. Reid got off extremely lightly and should no longer be a legally practicing doctor
Hird phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht
Dr. Reid got off extremely lightly and should no longer be a legally practicing doctor
Hird phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht
secretsource
Debutant
- Jan 17, 2016
- 98
- 70
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Banned
- #3,542
Only an hour to go until James throws some more people under the bus on ABC 24hr news, will it be the players next?
Radio interview?
left at home
Hall of Famer
can not be bothered to listen or read about him any more till he tells the truth which wont happen
secretsource
Debutant
- Jan 17, 2016
- 98
- 70
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Banned
- #3,545
TV, Foxtel.
What channel? I can't find it. I have foxtel not free to air.
- Moderator
- #3,547
ABC News 24
Saintly Viewed
.
30k Posts
10k Posts
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies - Brayden Sier 2019 Player Sponsor
Collingwood - Jaidyn Stephenson Player Sponsor 2018
Collingwood Board Goal Kicking Tip Comp
Collingwood - Matthew Scharenberg Player Sponsor 2017
Shiny Penny
- Aug 10, 2015
- 48,085
- 39,987
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
By the way who is this hard bloke people keep mentioning? Can't remember him, is he worth remembering?
I don't have that channel for some reason. Oh well. In sure someone will fill us in.
Thanks!
You aren't missing much, trust me. Pretty much a regurgitation of the articles in the HS. Journo (Holmes I think?) not scrutinising him whatsoever.
Similar threads
