Not only that but the idea that players can't improve their kicking is a myth. Andrew Swallow is a good example, was almost universally written off as a u18 player because of dodgy kicking. Now he is one of the best midfielders in the AFL.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Competitions Draft Prediction - 23 & 28
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Not only that but the idea that players can't improve their kicking is a myth. Andrew Swallow is a good example, was almost universally written off as a u18 player because of dodgy kicking. Now he is one of the best midfielders in the AFL.
Jimmy_the_Gent;22868301[B said:
Yeah. I didn't agree with the 'you can't play if you can't kick' line part. But I think a lot of recruiters have been too focused on the latest trends, and right before our eyes the Cats and Collingwood just picked bloody good and driven players most of the time and became the best.
Sorry man, but how can you agree with what Bond posted (""The modern game allows you a career if you are slow or fast , short or tall, but it is unforgiving if you cant kick."") when just a few posts earlier you said you were officially sold on Talia. There are some massive contradictions there considering Talia is the worst kick in the draft and would be the worst kick on our team. Not to mention fairly slow and undersized.
No more poor kicks of the footy please. I can't believe that after a year of general skill improvement from the worst in the comp only a year earlier, that there are now many interested in Talia and to a lesser extent Hill. One step forward and two steps back if you ask me.
We will never be able to compete in modern football against the likes of the Pies, Hawks and Carlton with that many poor kicks in the team. Field passing is more important now than ever.
A lot of this is basically empty rhetoric. You could just as easily say that we wont be able to compete with the best clubs if we're short and slow. Likewise, athleticism is as important now as ever.
This fear of picking hilly's younger brother through not having elite kicking or not dominating at colts ,is silly.
You guys selected NN on sheer athleticism & room for improvement.
At least with brad hill WC can concentrate big-time on his kicking skills, as he has already displayed elite speed & endurance,rare combo.
You guys selected NN on sheer athleticism & room for improvement.
At least with brad hill WC can concentrate big-time on his kicking skills, as he has already displayed elite speed & endurance,rare combo.
I was going to say 'I agree except for the can't kick part' but to save time just agreed and thought no-one would bring it up. I know there are bad kick/good players around....Priddis, Swan are two. But the part I was interested in was the fact that pretty much any sized/shaped player can play, and that tall and skinny DC kings with 'huge upside' are quite often shit players.
I don't subscribe to the undersized bullshit either. Glass, Fev, Scarlett, Pav, Rutten, Fisher, Bradshaw, Hunter, Gibson, Grundy, Lloyd, Hurley, Harley are a few 'undersized' good players currently playing or just retired. He's not slow either. He can get his kicking to a good enough standard to make it most of the time, a non issue....A la MacKenzie
You don't rate him, but Wells clearly does....I'll side with Wells on this guy.
We selected NN because he's a great ruckman and a dual AA at under 18s. His athletic ability makes him the very good player he already is. As a ruck I don't think he was ever a risk, it's a simple position. At every bounce down/ball up he's in, he's the most likely ruckman to win it in the air or on the ground. Outside of that he sits forward for long kicks and is a get out of trouble long option at the top of the D50-60m region. He's always in the game too with his tackling etc.
The mids are their to win masses of ball, and I'd want Hill to be good at winning enough ball to make his physical attributes significant.
- Banned
- #261
This has to be the most boring Drafts yet I think, normally we are down to 2 or 3 likely picks but this year with GWS and being picks 23 & 28 its a lottery.
We should be able to pick a single 17 year old of our choice and continue to do so every year seeing we stump up so much cash.
We should be able to pick a single 17 year old of our choice and continue to do so every year seeing we stump up so much cash.
You selected NN because no other rucks have ever been this athletic before.
Wow talk about chinese whispers. What I said was that "football is unforgiving if you cant kick" and not what it has morphed into which is 'if you cant kick you cant play", which are totally separate issues.
As J-T-G correctly pointed out there are many players currently on AFL lists who arent the best of kicks, but they usually have one trait in common, and its not athletic abilitity.
Masto is correct in stating that Andrew Swallow is not an elite kick but Andrew Swallow is, has always been, and always will be a 'footballer'. And by that I mean a genuine I know where to go and how to get the pill footballer - this is something almost impossible to teach. I can add priddis to this example as well.
The style of play now is very 'unforgiving' if a player cant kick. Rolling presses, defensive zones etc are all designed to isolate the weak and expose turnovers which usually result in goals. Whilst not accusing Hill of being a turnover merchant, the simple fact that his rise up the radar is based solely on his athletic prowess at the DC, rather than his previous football ability surely must raise some eyebrows.
Added to that is the knowledge that WC have more than their fair share of ordinary disposers in the team. How many of you out there - now be honest - shuddered when Masten, Waters, Dalziel, Mackenzie, McGinnity, Ebert, and Swift had the ball and for the most part these guys were regular players in 2011.
As to the argument that he can now concentrate on kicking as he has the other attributes as Fre at last argued - what crap. Ben Cousins is the only player I can recall whose kicking improved dramatically over his career. For all the rest the die is cast by 18 and any improvements are in line with normal curve from having elite coaching that occurs within the AFL.
If line breaking pace and elite endurance was the criteria - then WC could have got Brett Peake for next to nothing.
As J-T-G correctly pointed out there are many players currently on AFL lists who arent the best of kicks, but they usually have one trait in common, and its not athletic abilitity.
Masto is correct in stating that Andrew Swallow is not an elite kick but Andrew Swallow is, has always been, and always will be a 'footballer'. And by that I mean a genuine I know where to go and how to get the pill footballer - this is something almost impossible to teach. I can add priddis to this example as well.
The style of play now is very 'unforgiving' if a player cant kick. Rolling presses, defensive zones etc are all designed to isolate the weak and expose turnovers which usually result in goals. Whilst not accusing Hill of being a turnover merchant, the simple fact that his rise up the radar is based solely on his athletic prowess at the DC, rather than his previous football ability surely must raise some eyebrows.
Added to that is the knowledge that WC have more than their fair share of ordinary disposers in the team. How many of you out there - now be honest - shuddered when Masten, Waters, Dalziel, Mackenzie, McGinnity, Ebert, and Swift had the ball and for the most part these guys were regular players in 2011.
As to the argument that he can now concentrate on kicking as he has the other attributes as Fre at last argued - what crap. Ben Cousins is the only player I can recall whose kicking improved dramatically over his career. For all the rest the die is cast by 18 and any improvements are in line with normal curve from having elite coaching that occurs within the AFL.
If line breaking pace and elite endurance was the criteria - then WC could have got Brett Peake for next to nothing.
Yeah I think we should be allowed two extra players on our list also , to cater for the extra travel scheldule we have to endure
Not only was Nic Nat the most athletic ruckman in that draft, he was the best overall as well. His junior record speaks for itself (a junior record that is far superior to Brad Hill's).
During 2008 we preferred part-timer Lynchy to the dedicated ruckman Seaby as back-up ruckman to Cox, it was obvious we would grab one a new one in the 2008 draft.
During 2008 we preferred part-timer Lynchy to the dedicated ruckman Seaby as back-up ruckman to Cox, it was obvious we would grab one a new one in the 2008 draft.
My word is we still want Murray Newman.
So maybe him at 23
And Hill or Murdoch at 28
By the way Bradley Hill is a decent kick of the footy, a above average kick from what i have seen of him at colts level.
He always likes to turn into traffic, when running with the ball, when it works, he opens the whole field up, but can get caught doing so.
The above three along with any of the below would make me happy:
Jordan Lockyer
Zryus Manson
Schade
McInness
Markworth
Yeo
I guess slider's may change our thinking, but really want Murray Newman and his silky left foot.
I really wish we hadn't picked up Josh Hill who I think is there for delisting next year with Dalziell, pick 33 would of been very nice.
So maybe him at 23
And Hill or Murdoch at 28
By the way Bradley Hill is a decent kick of the footy, a above average kick from what i have seen of him at colts level.
He always likes to turn into traffic, when running with the ball, when it works, he opens the whole field up, but can get caught doing so.
The above three along with any of the below would make me happy:
Jordan Lockyer
Zryus Manson
Schade
McInness
Markworth
Yeo
I guess slider's may change our thinking, but really want Murray Newman and his silky left foot.
I really wish we hadn't picked up Josh Hill who I think is there for delisting next year with Dalziell, pick 33 would of been very nice.
I really dont care who get this year. Whoever we get wont get a game in 2011 for mine. If they do itd take a 12 man + injury list id say
I dont see us getting any A grade quality from here. If we had a pick inside the 10 then maybe.
I dont see us getting any A grade quality from here. If we had a pick inside the 10 then maybe.
I have not seen him at all really. But his bro wasn't ever really a big ball winner at any (champs/colts/league) level in his junior days iirc. But he has the genes and the athletic side of things more than covered. I'll take your word that he's a good enough kick. Do you know if he's a really hard-worker with the drive to succeed, or is he 'flaky' so to speak.
Also, those guys who cut inside and forwards at speed (Varcoe/Wojo/Rioli/Rob Murphy/Andrew Lovett) are really dangerous and piss me right off when it's against us....If he can be our Varcoe type runner to compliment the big bodies then that would be swell.
What a load of crap you can't improve your kicking, of course you can!
Look how much your mob improved their disposal from 2010 to 2011.
The more you practice & refine your technique the better you become.
It just boils down to how dedicated you are to the end result.
It seems that the 'crapness' of this draft is overplayed by the media.
Stephen Wells (who I'd listen to over anybody regarding drafts) has said it's not as bad as people say, and that was made clear when they traded for more picks in the trade period.
- Banned
- #272
this guy...?
Murray Newman
Club: Swan District
Age: 17
Height: 179 cm
Weight: 67 kg
“Represented WA at the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships. He played in four games averaging 20 disposals a game. He used the ball very well and linked up showing good run. Is a team oriented player who loves to get in and under to get the contested footy.”
67KG ?? ffs he must be tiny, 5 kg heavier than Lewis Broome.
- Aug 15, 2011
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1) Everybody improves their disposal when they enter the AFL - how can you not when you have so many coaches around and thats what you practice. i did say this.
2) WC's improvement in 2011 came mainly from the change in game plan and the introduction of players who could kick, rather than any dramatic change in players kicking ability. Certainly I cant remember thinking Ebert's or swifts kicking improved out of sight.
If we were to break down kicking ability into 4 groups for convenience being poor, average, good and elite - can you please tell me a player who has moved from one group to the next (in comparison to the list they're part of)
Eastern Rangers
2015 Worsfold Medalist - Rowen Powell
People had a few knocks on Stephen Hills kicking when he was drafted to Freo. The fuknny thing is Brad has a pretty similar raing action.
Round 2
17 and 5 behinds (in a draw
)15 touches
16 touches
21 and 2
15 touches
20 and 1
15 and 1
18 touches
20 and 1 goal
30 and 2 goals
____Champs Call up______
26 and 1 goal
18 touches
12 touches (v Souths)
19 and 2 goals
26 touches
18 touches
19 and a goal
26 and a goal
Round 23
Hard to knock his second half of the season.
