GBU vs Gws

[azza77]

McGovern’s arguably even more important than those two. But yes, all three would make a huge difference.

I'm swaying in and out of that camp, but for me, Gov hasn't dominated matches enough as of yet, considering he's generally copping one of the last defenders in the chain. He's a great threat because he excels at all areas of the game, and that makes him such a dangerous weapon, but for me he just doesn't do enough still.

Yet you have someone like Tex who is hobbling around, being double teamed and swamped constantly, and yet he still finds ways to kick goals, and more importantly, get involved in effective scoring chains. And because of this, that again then rolls down to the other forwards, and playing like JJ, Gov, Lynch and Betts even would get a lot more space to work with and better chances. Tex just straightens us up so much it's not funny.

Sloane very similar in a sense. Even when he's getting tagged he's still taking some really important marks, busts his gut with his 2 way running and was still one of the best pressure players in the comp. Might not have been having outstanding games by Sloane's standard, but his downfall allows the others to stand up.

However our midfield has been pretty putrid all year now and despite what I said, I'm a little wary of how much of a difference a fit Sloane will make at this stage. I like Atkins but he's been a liability, and one of the very few who was having a big PS by reports, so to see his form this year is more than disappointing. I like what CEY has achieved and what he can offer offensively, but defensively I still see him as a huge liability around the ground. Gibbs, as good as he is, seems to be struggling with that #1 title. Needs the support around him to flourish. Looked the goods in rounds 1-3 when we had a fit Sloane and Crouch under him, but hasn't been too anonymous for my liking of late.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

We used a bunch of captains in 2010 after Goodwin got injured. Can't remember how many exactly. VB and Doughty each got a turn I remember.

 

[feenix67]

We used a bunch of captains in 2010 after Goodwin got injured. Can't remember how many exactly. VB and Doughty each got a turn I remember.

Who brought the oranges?

 

[mistylake]

Who brought the oranges?

Now there’s a job for David Mackay.
Always washes his hands first, would surely get the quarters evenly proportioned, cleans up afterwards. Can be relied on to be their first even reliable enough to open and close.
Coaches love him.

 

[Golumless]

Its a funny situation. We seem to have good depth in all areas, and without being biased I believe we have good depth.... BUT! It seems that without Tex or Sloane, those areas of the park seem to fail miserably. They are the foundation guys and when they're not out there, the consequences seem to snow ball down the food chain and effect the rest of the group more severely, than say if we were to lose a Jenkins/Greenwood.

We always play best when we have 22 contributors, but boy oh boy do we need those 2 back asap to really straighten us out.

I would agree we have good depth, we wouldn't have 6 wins without it.

The problem with Tex being injured is we also lost his direct replacement in McGovern who also straightens us up.

It does show the value of very good footballers though.

 

[feenix67]

Now there’s a job for David Mackay.
Always washes his hands first, would surely get the quarters evenly proportioned, cleans up afterwards. Can be relied on to be their first even reliable enough to open and close.
Coaches love him.

Disposal would be an issue

 

[FR0GGY]

Disposal would be an issue

And who wants a fumbled orange?

 

[mistylake]

And who wants a fumbled orange?

Disposal would be an issue

It’s not unusual for others to have to clean up his mess.

 

[CrowBloke]

The worst part is we've always had better options, by virtue of the incumbent being terrible.

So, SO true ...

 

[NTRabbit]

Except it's not true, because aside from Wigg none of those supposed better options are even in the AFL system anymore. The problem isn't the golden ticket everyone pretends exists, the problem is the club has failed to draft and develop enough players better than Mackay across the span to push him out.

 

[marvin]

This, to me, is a VERY big question. Talia is a Victorian lad who has been a stalwart of the club. He's shown great leadership in the past, on and off the field. He's led our backline for years and has in the past been part of the leadership group.

Why was this guy left out of the leadership group? It's player driven but coach selected, is that right? Seems to me this stems from some internal ructions.

I’ll have a go. My observation of Talia over the years is that when things start going against us, he can tend to drift back from providing on field voice and direction to making sure he gets his personal match up on lockdown. I think he’s a model pro and a superb defender, and there’s no doubt he is a passionate player. His B&F speech was stirring. I’m not sure he’s an on field leader.

I’d still have him ahead of Lynch.

 

[GreyCrow]

I’ll have a go. My observation of Talia over the years is that when things start going against us, he can tend to drift back from providing on field voice and direction to making sure he gets his personal match up on lockdown. I think he’s a model pro and a superb defender, and there’s no doubt he is a passionate player. His B&F speech was stirring. I’m not sure he’s an on field leader.

I’d still have him ahead of Lynch.

As the game is progressing his on-field leadership should be around the backline. Thats why there are 4 Leaders in the group, to provide voice over most of the ground. If he feels any issues need to be raised he can do so at the breaks. Thats his role

I think he has upset some players with his forthright comments. Sad if true as the inmates are running the asylum then

 

[marvin]

As the game is progressing his on-field leadership should be around the backline. Thats why there are 4 Leaders in the group, to provide voice over most of the ground. If he feels any issues need to be raised he can do so at the breaks. Thats his role

I think he has upset some players with his forthright comments. Sad if true as the inmates are running the asylum then

The trouble with our 2018 leadership group is that it is 2 forwards and 2 mids. There's a big section of the ground that isn't covered.

I don't have a logical alternative as a defensive leader. It's not Hartigan, it can't be Brodie this year, Laird is a great player but seems to defer to others too much in public, Kelly needs to get his game established, and Otten is a fringe player at this stage of his career. Luke Brown seems to be in the right demographic (experienced, nuggets back pocket) but I think I've only heard him speak once. I would like to have seen them stick with Talia and given him a chance to develop further, but I can also see why they didn't.

Maybe he was dumped for being too blunt, but Eddie was dumped too, and it's hard to imagine him getting in someone's face. Likewise Sauce when he got left out in 2017.

 

[Southerntakeover]

McGovern’s arguably even more important than those two. But yes, all three would make a huge difference.

Nah he's not.

McGovern was terrible most of the year.

 

[CrowBloke]

Really good post, but:

Gibbs ... hasn't been too anonymous for my liking of late.

what did you mean by that, please?

 

[azza77]

Really good post, but:

what did you mean by that, please?

Sorry, accidental double negative. Gibbs HAS been a little anonymous of late for such a quality and experienced midfielder. The only time he's really stood up lately was his 3rd quarter vs pies, kicked a big goal late in the third and we looked a chance of coming back.

Other than that, he just gone about his business but hasn't really stamped authority. It's exactly players like Gibbs, Lynch etc that we need to stand up when players such as Sloane and Tex are missing.

 

[Vader]

Sorry, accidental double negative. Gibbs HAS been a little anonymous of late for such a quality and experienced midfielder. The only time he's really stood up lately was his 3rd quarter vs pies, kicked a big goal late in the third and we looked a chance of coming back.

Other than that, he just gone about his business but hasn't really stamped authority. It's exactly players like Gibbs, Lynch etc that we need to stand up when players such as Sloane and Tex are missing.

Understandable that he'd be a bit fatigued, after carrying the entire midfield on his shoulders for half the season.

 

[CrowBloke]

Sorry, accidental double negative.

Ah ok, thought so.

The only time he's really stood up lately was his 3rd quarter vs pies, kicked a big goal late in the third and we looked a chance of coming back.
Other than that, he just gone about his business but hasn't really stamped authority.

Gibbs "business" is bloody good.
Gibbs was named as our best player vs GWS, scored AFLCA votes, named in Team of the Week --- they can't all be wrong. He's come to a new Club and hasn't rocked the boat, but probably still feeling his way. As Vader pointed out too, he's been under pressure. One of our best-performing players so far (in no order Laird, Talia, Greenwood, Gibbs, Seedsman ...)
I think Gibbs has been a great get. Watch him shine in the second half of the year.

 

[azza77]

Ah ok, thought so.

Gibbs "business" is bloody good.
Gibbs was named as our best player vs GWS, scored AFLCA votes, named in Team of the Week --- they can't all be wrong. He's come to a new Club and hasn't rocked the boat, but probably still feeling his way. As Vader pointed out too, he's been under pressure. One of our best-performing players so far (in no order Laird, Talia, Greenwood, Gibbs, Seedsman ...)
I think Gibbs has been a great get. Watch him shine in the second half of the year.

No you are correct and apologies again I wasn't criticising his game on the weekend. Trust me, I've been one of Gibbs' biggest fans both at Carlton and here, and was crying out for his services when not many wanted to cough up the picks. This game vs GWS is the first game he's probably stood up under pressure and put in a performance you'd expect from a champion player under the pump. Before that, he'd been a little underwhelming. He wasn't bad by any means, but he was sort of just going through the motions.

And yes he is shouldering the midfield, but don't forget, Sloane had a year or two of carrying our midfield with little support and was still putting in some stellar performances and apart from being tagged, was putting up great numbers week to week. More of last week from Gibbs would be pleasing to see from an A grade senior player.