Autopsy Geelong loses to PA in QF2 by about 6 goals.

[Strange Cat]

I can understand your points and your frustration and I have doubts about Scott but I guess to me the argument is just so much more nuanced that you seem to feel it is and I may be wrong. To me though I want to be taking some things like this into account when making assessments on how bad Scott is or the need for change.

1. In those ten years two teams have won more than half the flags ( 6 Richmond and Hawthorn) and those teams are some of the greatest teams of the modern era. It makes it super hard to win if you have to beat a generational team.

2. So outside of those there are 4 flags to win and we haven't won one but think that makes the ratio far more understandable.

3. Scott has transitioned a premiership team with an unprecedented level of success in the sense that we didn't go down whilst losing an entire side that made up the greatest geelong team in most of our life-times

4. As a result you must concede that when you are transitioning champions out of your side constantly it is incredibly hard to compete let alone win a flag. History is littered with teams who fall apart (Brisbane Hawthorn) when trying to do it.

5. During at least 3 or 4 of those years we just weren't that good by most peoples measurement and overachieved. Like the years before we got Danger and Joel was carrying the midfield literally by himself. Remember when we were all worried it would massively shorten his career.

5. Therefore I would argue that during a number of years we were competing in the finals at the pointy end with a good but not very good or great team because of Scott's coaching nouse.

6. There are many other reasons I could point to but in summary. Flags are super hard to win. Our unparalleled success (being top 4 after finals in almost every second year) has made us somewhat unrealistic with our expectations. Apart from his flag I am pretty sure Scott hasn't coached 1 team you would call great on talent alone. Most of the flags during the years you speak of were won by legendary teams.

As I said I could literally come up with 20 further points that I think are worthy of consideration when judging how the club and Scott are going and have gone but the main point is I think it is much more complex than many many people on here are willing to consider or admit.

Nearly every final series has gone exactly the same way no matter what Scott or the club have done …bar 2020. I disagree with the tigers being a generational team …but my point is that this feels like the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over for the same results

nothing is changing..I’m not saying sack Scott but changes around him has to be made imo …we can’t keep doing this .

 

[VerC]

Nearly every final series has gone exactly the same way no matter what Scott or the club have done …bar 2020. I disagree with the tigers being a generational team …but my point is that this feels like the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over for the same results

nothing is changing..I’m not saying sack Scott but changes around him has to be made imo …we can’t keep doing this .

Changes like what?

 

[Strange Cat]

Changes like what?

Clearly something as this final series is going to script like all the others .

change of tactics…personals …assistances …drafting strategy …who knows but it feels like and endless loop at the moment with the same results and same performances year in year out .

 

[Cursed Cat]

Nearly every final series has gone exactly the same way no matter what Scott or the club have done …bar 2020. I disagree with the tigers being a generational team …but my point is that this feels like the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over for the same results

nothing is changing..I’m not saying sack Scott but changes around him has to be made imo …we can’t keep doing this .

not sure why the club continually offers him contract extensions prior to competing in a finals series .....

 

[catstorm]

Changes like what?

Full clean out of coaching staff. 10 years now with no success is too long for a single coach to stay, it’s time to move on.

I don’t care if we spend 5 years near the bottom we need a rebuild and a new voice.

This treading water shit is a waste of everyone’s time. It’s a maintenance of being good with no chance of being great.

 

[Strange Cat]

Full clean out of coaching staff. 10 years now with no success is too long for a single coach to stay, it’s time to move on.

I don’t care if we spend 5 years near the bottom we need a rebuild and a new voice.

This treading water sh*t is a waste of everyone’s time. It’s a maintenance of being good with no chance of being great.

Imagine if we have another 10 years of final appearances like the last ten with nothing to show for them …that’s my nightmare

 

[xtatik222k]

I can’t imagine a reality where Henderson keeps his spot after that performance. He’s been great for a long time but that has to be the end of his career. He will sadly be remembered for being too slow, tackles that stick like teflon and turnovers. I don’t think Krueger can do any worse.

Bring back Harry!

Henderson was absolutely insipid last night - I can't remember the last time I was that angry at a Geelong player. Would be happy to see the back of him, permanently.

 

[CatRiot]

Don't think we need to sack Scott... Unless we can get Clarkson, which is not gonna happen. Scott needs to man up, and take accountability for our finals record, invest in some gun youth and development.

What we need is a-grade youth in the midfield, and if we can get Haynes on a cheap trade from GWS, then do it as well. I didn't realise how important Stewart was to our entire rebound structure. Impossible to win it this year without him tbh.

 

[xtatik222k]

Media definitely putting some hard questions to Scott in the presser. I like it. I'd like it to be about 300% harsher but it's good to know that he's aware the football community thinks his players are a bunch of gutless pushovers come finals.

Prediction from here, we make the GF.

I'm still backing us in. Not really sure why. Might as well be positive until there's nothing left to be positive about.

 

[Partridge]

An opinion without a sceric of evidence to support it??

Just checking.

An opinion based on how younger players are treated, how younger players struggle to get selected even when performing well in the VFL, and how older players are selected ahead of them for the seniors without remotely justifying it (see Jack Steven, Shaun Higgins).

The word you're looking for is 'skerrick' by the way. You really should have been checking.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah and not being able to peak in finals. Port like the tigers had the legs to close us down and pressure us. This old mob can't get it done in September year after year. then they recruit Smith and Higgins and Jack stevens and Josh Jenkins....We are home and Away specialists as is Scott. 70 % win record. Give me a break!

Except last week. Did you notice the home and away record suddenly didn't matter last week when we blew a 7 goal lead.

 

[Partridge]

Seems you can’t accept other people opnion and would rather belittle my comments for stating what every club measurement for success would be …to get a flag…of ******* course there are degrees of success for a club working towards that goal …but we had 10 years of finals with multiple PF and a GF appearance how much more room do you give for multiple final fails before you make the hard changes needed?

Exactly. And don't forget all the ready made players we brought in over that time, and all the draft picks we gave away to get them. So anytime someone says "but we haven't had the picks" you can state bullshit loud and clear. The club CHOSE to trade them for mature players, they CHOSE that strategy, and what we see every September is the result.

 

[Partridge]

Imagine if we have another 10 years of final appearances like the last ten with nothing to show for them …that’s my nightmare

The real nightmare would be much worse. The four most important players are all 30 or older - Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, and Dangerfield. Then you add a glut of other 30+ players that are selected all the time - Stanley, Tuohy, Smith, Rohan, Henderson, Blicavs, Higgins. A good chunk will decline even further or be gone in the next year or so. Particularly Selwood and Hawkins.

That's when the fun will really begin.

 

[danster168]

You guys are still a massive chance of winning the flag. You're on the easier side of the draw now and you only have to play an interstate team in syd/gws instead of the dogs/ess.

You'll get touhy back and more game time in duncan.

The slow, chippy chip game style has been pretty arduous to watch but I think your best footy is when you play aggressively. Scott obviously see things differently.

 

[xtatik222k]

You guys are still a massive chance of winning the flag. You're on the easier side of the draw now and you only have to play an interstate team in syd/gws instead of the dogs/ess.

You'll get touhy back and more game time in duncan.

The slow, chippy chip game style has been pretty arduous to watch but I think your best footy is when you play aggressively. Scott obviously see things differently.

That's charitable of you, but at this stage it doesn't really feel like we're contenders. Making up the numbers, just like every season. Good enough to get there, never good enough to put the foot down when it counts. We may win the semi, possibly the prelim, but we're not kidding ourselves. This team just isn't built for the hard stuff. Never has been, never will be. My hope is that the club puts its head down and commits to doing it the hard way - the long way - rebuild, start from scratch, and start building towards a tougher, more galvanised group of players that don't just front up for a paycheck in their twilight years.

 

[Pods]

That's charitable of you, but at this stage it doesn't really feel like we're contenders. Making up the numbers, just like every season. Good enough to get there, never good enough to put the foot down when it counts. We may win the semi, possibly the prelim, but we're not kidding ourselves. This team just isn't built for the hard stuff. Never has been, never will be. My hope is that the club puts its head down and commits to doing it the hard way - the long way - rebuild, start from scratch, and start building towards a tougher, more galvanised group of players that don't just front up for a paycheck in their twilight years.

Understatement of the century that we’re making up the numbers. We’re a complete and utter mess from my perspective and I’m over people making excuses for it. We have a seriously soft underbelly that is exposed time after time. I don’t give a **** what they say internally, the club’s messaging reeks of weakness and acceptance of mediocrity.

Hard yards are definitely required.

Time for a new voice? Probably. But should not be one of the existing assistants, I don’t care what legend status they have at the club.

Footy is a zero sum game. The concept of ‘beating the handicapper’ as articulated by Colin Carter, is a ridiculous measure.

You either win or lose the flag. That’s it. Second is BS. If you think otherwise I have news for you- you’re a loser!

The concept of a ‘winning season’ is something put forward to condition people for losing.

In a corporate environment being the number two and making a 2 billion dollar profit compared to number one who makes 3 billion, doesn’t really matter because the objective is profit itself and return on capital.

Ask the eagles or pies if they’re happy making more profit than everyone else but being shit.

If you think our return on capital is reasonable, that means we’ve made poor investments.

The AFL is structured around supporting clubs who make a lot of money and those that don’t. It supports the weak to ensure there is a competition. The fact that it does that demonstrates that profit (ie. making finals/top four) isn’t the measure of success. Flags are.

It’s pretty simple.

If beating the handicapper means being near the top but not actually ever being good enough to win the flag, what’s the value in achieving that?

It’s just a really disappointing state of affairs.

PS. Not having a go at poster. I simply pressed reply.

 

[xtatik222k]

If beating the handicapper means being near the top but not actually ever being good enough to win the flag, what’s the value in achieving that?

I agree with most of what you said, I don't think there's any value in it. It certainly holds no value for supporters who love the team. It's hard to put myself in the shoes of Carlton/St Kilda/Freo/Adelaide/Essendon and genuinely decide if I'd rather be where they are, but it's gotten to the point now that making top four is utterly meaningless for Geelong. It's not meaningless for other clubs. Top 4 means something for Port, or Melbourne, or Brisbane etc. It means a genuine chance at a flag. It means nothing for us, because the script plays itself out year after year. Straight sets, lose the Prelim, or lose the GF. In a sick kind of way, I think this script has fundamentally damaged the mentality of the team, the point that all they want to do is make top 4. That's their goal, and they achieve it. Their #1 goal should be to find a way not to shit the bed when the tough stuff starts.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

3 things in life are certain.
Death
Taxes
Geelong loosing a QF

 

[Gavin Excell]

Please tell me why I watched this filth the whole way through? We never looked a chance from the start.

Game plan is dead
We cannot score playing this dreary brand

 

[gogeelongcats]

We need to make changes now. I started typing this at quarter time. Could have used the same thing for the last 10 years or so.

GAME PLAN

• This starts with our silly game plan which is slow, boring, predictable, sideways and backward disposals. Does not stand up and is typically pathetic in the finals. Beats weak sides during the year, gets into the finals and then we get pumped. Our logo is "FINALS STRONG". This could not be further from the truth.Image from another poster says it all:
• Scott has a winning record of 37.5% in finals.
  Scott has a winning record of 71.6% in the regular season. (from another poster)
  
  
• View attachment 1219095
• I remember Cook, who is very astute saying that the most important thing is that we make the finals every year. I beg to differ that perhaps it is best to build a team capable of winning premierships. Straight sets is becoming the norm.
• 3 goals in 3 quarters. What chance have you got???????
• out of the last 9 qualifying finals we have lost 8. There is a patten there
• Chipping the ball, unable to handle pressure and composure as we are not skilled enough. The game plan is flawed in a pressure situation. It is clear to everybody except our coach. We are becoming a laughing stock of the league.
• Incredible frustration and boring game plan
• have 3 key forwards and can not play direct to give them a chance
• Above the shoulders is a problem. Playing our younger inexperienced players would not help but they have to be given game time while we are in transition.
• We choke in front of goal. Miss the shots we should get
• If Scott does not change this game plan show him the door. I do not care how many games he has won or how man excuses he has. HE HAS BEEN THERE TOO LONG.

LIST CHANGES

• Too old, too slow, too unskilled, too soft, too mentally fragile
• Reality is we need a fresh approach as there is lack of trust in this set-up
• Drop the players that let us down in the finals every time
• Wholesale list changes are required. Drop Rohan (disappears in big games), Dahl (cannot kick longer than 30 metres, 3-4 disposals per game), Henderson (slow and error ridden), Dangerfield (big game looser), Kolo (cannot keep his feet and to slow), Rohan (where are you?)

UPSIDE

• Close, Henry,

FUTURE

• Rebuild the side. Must rejuvenate the side as the players will have are on a downward spiral and will NOT win a premiership.
• Coach changes needed to introduce a game style that wins premierships
• Leadership changes.
• Call Clarko now.
• Play the younger players. Give them a go. Holmes, De Koning, Clark, Narkle, Stephens etc
• Need key pack marking forward, outside run midfielder, inside monster midfielder, key backman…. Too many holes.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Game plan is dead
We cannot score playing this dreary brand

The game plan is simply irrelevant when you have
- incredible performances like that of Henderson
- an unsighted Dahlhaus and (until he moved back) Rohan
- almost completely ineffectual performances from key players Selwood, Guthrie and Menegola, and
- a better performance from Dangerfield, but well below his best.

What you have then is simply, like most footy matches, one in which one side beats the other because it had more good players on the night.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

Media definitely putting some hard questions to Scott in the presser. I like it. I'd like it to be about 300% harsher but it's good to know that he's aware the football community thinks his players are a bunch of gutless pushovers come finals.

Prediction from here, we make the GF.

I'm still backing us in. Not really sure why. Might as well be positive until there's nothing left to be positive about.

We look completely cooked. How on earth can you be predict a grand final berth after last nights effort?

 

[xtatik222k]

We look completely cooked. How on earth can you be predict a grand final berth after last nights effort?

Because of what we've seen in the past. We bounce back quickly from this rubbish and rarely play two howlers in a row. Also think the team will be better next week, settling into the covid routine and with backs against the wall. A Sydney team in Perth is unlikely to trouble us as much as Port in SA. From there we make the prelim, and anything could happen there. Remaining in Perth should allow us to settle a bit.

Might sound like a long shot, but I think it's within reach.

 

[Tony Barber]

Gee port were good.

Imagine a port v Brisbane gf with the ball flinging all over the place?
There's not a chance I'd miss that.

We do actually look cooked. Have for 5 weeks or so.

 

[joe444]

5, 6, 7, 5, 5. Who knows what this pattern is………….?

And it's been a decade of embarrassments:
2012 - down 5.7 to 0.1 at quarter time at home to Fremantle. Bundled out.
2013 - concede 4.8 to 1.1 in the final quarter to choke in the Prelim
2014 - out in straight sets after North score 7 goals in the first 25 mins
2016 - Go into the Prelim as flag favourites. Down 7.2 to 0.5 at quarter time. Outski.
2017 - Prelim. Down 6.3 to 1.2 at quarter time. Outski.
2018 - Down 5.3 to 0.2 at quarter time. Bundled out.
2019 - Collingwood kick 7 of the first 8 goals in the qualifying final. Tigers kick 8 goals to 2 to run over us in the Prelim.