No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #12 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Bostonian]

It's not just racism - although it is extremely racist and disgusting. It's also misogynistic to presume that the player needs to get away from his partner, the ole ball n chain, in order to be a better player.

That's the part we don't know.

Maybe the young player/s did have some toxic relationships that they were dealing with and did need some kind of intervention.

As the head coach though you don't get involved in that. You get people trained in the relevant fields to assist.

Clarko is a control freak though so he'd be exactly the kind of person to think he knows it all.

 

[Brackets]

It's not just racism - although it is extremely racist and disgusting. It's also misogynistic to presume that the player needs to get away from his partner, the ole ball n chain, in order to be a better player.

It doesn't help the issue to turn this into something it isn't. If this comes out to be an issue then that needs to be addressed. If it was an isolated incident to indigenous players misogyny is clearly not the issue.

 

[thefrog]

You're not wrong. I flick through TikTok a bit and if there's a video posted by an indigenous person, the comments are often absolutely appalling.

Not only this but I often see videos posted impersonating First Nations people with loads of likes and comments. Makes me sick.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Intersectional racism y’all, it’s a thing.

 

[El Topo]

Uh, Mick had been sacked well before we traded Yarran

Same year??

 

[Stamos]

Same year??

Yes, but it's safe to say that Mick had absolutely no say about list management decisions at the end of 2015.

 

[Sector 7G]

Yes, but it's safe to say that Mick had absolutely no say about list management decisions at the end of 2015.

Yarrans life had started to spiral out of control before we traded him

 

[zeggie]

Shocking horrible allegations. But if 100% true and factual, how on earth would Burgoyne not be in the know?

 

[Stamos]

Yarrans life had started to spiral out of control before we traded him

No doubt

 

[agro]

The call from the AFL community for Clarkson and Fagan to resign is fine - the call from the AFL community for James Hird to pursue a senior job back in the AFL industry is mind boggling.

 

[El Topo]

Yes, but it's safe to say that Mick had absolutely no say about list management decisions at the end of 2015.

SOS wanted Yarran to stay - reckon Mick might have a bit to do with why he was already out the door

That's the part we don't know.

Maybe the young player/s did have some toxic relationships that they were dealing with and did need some kind of intervention.

As the head coach though you don't get involved in that. You get people trained in the relevant fields to assist.

Clarko is a control freak though so he'd be exactly the kind of person to think he knows it all.

The whole thing has a nasty undercurrent of Scotch College style snobbery - the reference to having players live in the "right" suburbs is telling

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I don't think it's necessarily misogynistic to suggest that a partner could be a negative influence. It happens.
Same with friends/networks.
Hodge was quoted today that he was questioned about whether it was right for him to go back to see family and friends in Colac. There's been similar questioning about the people DeGoey hangs out with (and his choice of manager).

I don't disagree with this, but it certainly brings up questions of boundaries.

 

[Bostonian]

The whole thing has a nasty undercurrent of Scotch College style snobbery - the reference to having players live in the "right" suburbs is telling

Or right just means safer.

As my local example I doubt Geelong FC would want players living in Corio or Norlane over living in Newtown or Torquay.

Have no doubt the club would advise against it strongly.

 

[Coona Blues]

I don't think it's necessarily misogynistic to suggest that a partner could be a negative influence. It happens.
Same with friends/networks.
Hodge was quoted today that he was questioned about whether it was right for him to go back to see family and friends in Colac. There's been similar questioning about the people DeGoey hangs out with (and his choice of manager).

100%.
The kicker is that the whole story also does not necessarily have to be racist. It suits a narrative to label people racist, when it could be simplified to be socio-economic, behavioural, environmental, or a number of other societal labels. The story clearly refers to First Nations individuals. I cannot see in the mind of the protagonists to know if the motivation was based on colour or circumstance. Commonsense suggests it was more about circumstance, with a link to race.

Assuming the reports to be accurate, nothing is excused, but it is a human issue first and a racial issue somewhere thereafter. If we can’t identify it as a human issue, then racial issues are far worse than most of you believe.

Sometime we have to move on from historic issues and agenda driven stereotyping and divisiveness. The individuals were acting in their roles to maximise the performance and output of individuals and teams. The methods used were reprehensible, no matter how well intended they were in their own eyes. The reports are gut wrenching, there is undoubtedly at least an element of truth. Nothing in the published article suggests implicitly that the motivation was racial, even if there was that connection.

A very different view, but one I believe society needs to take on.

 

[Blue__Balls]

100%.
The kicker is that the whole story also does not necessarily have to be racist. It suits a narrative to label people racist, when it could be simplified to be socio-economic, behavioural, environmental, or a number of other societal labels. The story clearly refers to First Nations individuals. I cannot see in the mind of the protagonists to know if the motivation was based on colour or circumstance. Commonsense suggests it was more about circumstance, with a link to race.

Assuming the reports to be accurate, nothing is excused, but it is a human issue first and a racial issue somewhere thereafter. If we can’t identify it as a human issue, then racial issues are far worse than most of you believe.

Sometime we have to move on from historic issues and agenda driven stereotyping and divisiveness. The individuals were acting in their roles to maximise the performance and output of individuals and teams. The methods used were reprehensible, no matter how well intended they were in their own eyes. The reports are gut wrenching, there is undoubtedly at least an element of truth. Nothing in the published article suggests implicitly that the motivation was racial, even if there was that connection.

A very different view, but one I believe society needs to take on.

Certainly, but it's hard to imagine there was anything but a racial basis for the major claim here. White players were getting married, having kids, becoming mature and responsible role models. Now we learn of attempts to divide a few young indigenous players from their loved ones and families, and in an extreme case being pressured to abort a pregnancy. How are we to interpret this other than as the parties in question believing that the indigenous kids couldn't maintain their professionalism if they had a family to support, while the white guys would be A-OK?

Unless we hear of the same shit being pulled on young white players, that is exactly how it looks.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[lily of laguna]

Made it half way through the article before I had to close it and walk away. Sickening. Heart breaking. Unfathomable.

The response will be telling. Every single club should be commissioning an investigation into their practises because as disturbing as it is, you can bet Hawthorn are not alone here.

In fact the entire league should be investigated. It won't be pretty or comfortable but good can come from it.



Please don't do this. You are naïve if you think Hawthorn are alone here and I would be stunned if our own club hadn't mistreated people along the journey.

I think it's totally acceptable to bag that club out. They are club that were/are branding themselves as the 'family club'.
To have senior football officials including the head coach saying you must convince your pregnant missus to have an abortion deserves to be outed.


Sent from my SM-A115F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stamos]

Certainly, but it's hard to imagine there was anything but a racial basis for the major claim here. White players were getting married, having kids, becoming mature and responsible role models. Now we learn of attempts to divide a few young indigenous players from their loved ones and families, and in an extreme case being pressured to abort a pregnancy. How are we to interpret this other than as the parties in question believing that the indigenous kids couldn't maintain their professionalism if they had a family to support, while the white guys would be A-OK?

Unless we hear of the same s**t being pulled on young white players, that is exactly how it looks.

Yes, although the report only spoke to indigenous players, so it's hard to know how widespread the actions were.

 

[Arr0w]

Wouldn't trust what Mitchell says, has form with racist comments

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The call from the AFL community for Clarkson and Fagan to resign is fine - the call from the AFL community for James Hird to pursue a senior job back in the AFL industry is mind boggling.

Is it just me or does this Clarkson scandal make Hird's return to Essendon much more unlikely now ?


I doubt the AFL would want any more bad PR at this stage, but knowing Gil the Goose, who knows ?

 

[RPCB]

Wouldn't trust what Mitchell says, has form with racist comments

Yeah, but he named dropped Shaun Burgoyne. So what he’s saying must be true.

 

[RPCB]

Has Tom Browne turned himself into a parody lately?

 

[Blue__Balls]

Yes, although the report only spoke to indigenous players, so it's hard to know how widespread the actions were.

Absent further reports, one can then only assume a racial basis for the behaviour.

Was Clarko pulling Sam Mitchell into an office in 2010 and telling him his wife needed to abort their twins so he could focus on footy? I mean, twins would be a lot of work. Mitchell knew nothing of these allegations though, so no, apparently it was OK for him to have a family.

I'm down with "innocent til proven guilty" and all that, but the nature of these allegations is patently clear. The reports have only come from players of a specific background, and the alleged behaviour is clearly linked to established racial prejudices against people of that background. Downplaying the racial aspect serves no purpose here. It can be a human issue and a racial issue. In fact, any racial issue is by its nature a human issue.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Has Tom Browne turned himself into a parody lately?

Seems that Tom slept in today.

 

[Stamos]

Absent further reports, one can then only assume a racial basis for the behaviour.

The reports have only come from players of a specific background, and the alleged behaviour is clearly linked to established racial prejudices against people of that background. Downplaying the racial aspect serves no purpose here.

Yes, but they have been the only people asked so far.
Not downplaying the racial aspect, most likely that's what it is. But probably better to wait and see what comes from the full investigation.