Rumour GFC 2024 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 1

[allrighty]

Too many off field ? With him

?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

?

Off field doubts.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Might be skipping a bit on the list for North there. They had just drafted Simpkin, Zurhaar, and Larkey, though they wouldn't have known Souv would be a gun.

They had Goldy, Cunners, Higgins in the middle. Tarrant and Thompson were a compelling backline combo.

They had a skeleton to work with

It's not preparation if you're doing it at the start.

The whole point of the post is the groundwork laid before the fall down the ladder occurred, not the one draft they got right when the cull had already begun. It's cause and effect.

For example:

It would be like us starting a rebuild at the end of this year, with our only young talent on the list being James Parsons, Brandan Parfitt, Charlie Constable, & Jack Henry at the start of their careers.

You can't then say "Oh, but we picked up a young Tanner Bruhn, Gryan Miers, & Ollie Henry in the same draft that year, so it's all okay".

That's not groundwork, that's starting again when you've already announced the rebuild, (I.e we've ****ed this up and now we need to build from the bottom).

If North had drafted guys like Larkey, Simpkin, & Zurhaar in 2012-14 instead of 2016 then you'd have a point, that would have been laying the groundwork/foundation, and they probably avoid the fall all together.

It doesn't count when you draft them when the rebuild has already begun, that's after the fact.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They wont do that. If they didnt do it with grundy zero chance they do it with oliver.

Grundy wasn't an issue for the club, it was an issue for Grundy

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It's not preparation if you're doing it at the start.

The whole point of the post is the groundwork laid before the fall down the ladder occurred, not the one draft they got right when the cull had already begun. It's cause and effect.

For example:

It would be like us starting a rebuild at the end of this year, with our only young talent on the list being James Parsons, Brandan Parfitt, Charlie Constable, & Jack Henry at the start of their careers.

You can't then say "Oh, but we picked up a young Tanner Bruhn, Gryan Miers, & Ollie Henry in the same draft that year, so it's all okay".

That's not groundwork, that's starting again when you've already announced the rebuild, (I.e we've ****ed this up and now we need to build from the bottom).

If North had drafted guys like Larkey, Simpkin, & Zurhaar in 2012-14 instead of 2016 then you'd have a point, that would have been laying the groundwork/foundation.

It doesn't count when you draft them when the rebuild has already begun, that's after the fact.

Yeah but they also would have planned on those draftees working out.

All I'm saying is North wasn't starting again from zero. They had the bones of a midfield and a decent backline. Arguably they had a better list then than they do now.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Grundy wasn't an issue for the club, it was an issue for Grundy

My point was they refused to trade grundy and pay any of his contract (and it worked). They will do the same here.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Yeah but they also would have planned on those draftees working out.

All I'm saying is North wasn't starting again from zero. They had the bones of a midfield and a decent backline. Arguably they had a better list then than they do now.

Not immediately though, they're 18 year old kids.

At 18, they wouldn't have been enough stop the fall, regardless of their talent.

Now, if they'd drafted them in 2012-14 (like the examples of what the Swans & us have done) and actually laid the groundwork, they likely don't fall down the ladder...and even if they do, it's only for a short period.

Imagine North in 2017/18 if Larkey, Zurhaar, & Simpkin actually had some pre-seasons under their belts after being drafted around 2012-14, and were approaching the 50-100 game mark instead of being kids fresh out of high school.

They would've been much more competitive, and likely only needed a couple years lower down the ladder before they would rise again.

It's because they were negligent and started the investment in youth after the fact that they ended up where they did, which isn't surprising, as like you mentioned they were (and arguably still are) a basket case off field.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

My point was they refused to trade grundy and pay any of his contract (and it worked). They will do the same here.

I think Melbourne would be the motivated party here as much as anyone.

 

[foxdog50]

Duncan was on interview a week or 2 back ( I'm sure it was on krock) saying his feeling well and is keen to go on next year

 

[Jeff76]

Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

would need to come here with a shit load of clauses in his contract, the bloke is a massive flog and I’m pretty sure no club will go near him. He’s staying at Melbourne.


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[CatToTheFuture]

Not immediately though, they're 18 year old kids.

At 18, they wouldn't have been enough stop the fall, regardless of their talent.

Now, if they'd drafted them in 2012-14 (like the examples of what the Swans & us have done) and actually laid the groundwork, they likely don't fall down the ladder...and even if they do, it's only for a short period.

Imagine North in 2017/18 if Larkey, Zurhaar, & Simpkin actually had some pre-seasons under their belts after being drafted around 2012-14, and were approaching the 50-100 game mark instead of being kids fresh out of high school.

They would've been much more competitive, and likely only needed a couple years lower down the ladder before they would rise again.

It's because they were negligent and started the investment in youth after the fact that they ended up where they did, which isn't surprising, as like you mentioned they were (and arguably still are) a basket case off field.

I'm not just talking about those kids specifically. I'd argue North's prime aged contingent was pretty good at the time.

I think it's a different scenario to us because North's main failing was an inability to attract trade ins. I don't expect the same difficulty for us so long as we present a stable off field environment. But it's not that dissimilar

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Clayton Oliver would need to come here with a shit load of clauses in his contract, the bloke is a massive flog and I’m pretty sure no club will go near him. He’s staying at Melbourne.


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I'd be interested to see the contract clauses before dismissing the idea

 

[Lana]

I don't know if Duncan has anything left in the tank. If you add him I have 7 players with games experience on my list of outs

Hawkins
Duncan
Tuohy
Bews
Parfitt
Rohan
Stanley

We'd be losing 1,619 games experience (and counting).

For context when North dumped their senior players end of 2016 they only lost 1,345 games.

Some detail:

That doesn't bother me in the slightest, they all pretty much have one foot out of the door.

 

[numbwombat]

The only (highly unlikely) way Clarry would make sense IMO is if we somehow opened up so much cap space this off-season that we could pay half his contract (~$2-3M) in year 1, then the next 5 years he’s $500-700K. His management would be negligent to encourage a deal with behavioural clauses that risked a few million just for a fresh start.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Clayton Oliver would need to come here with a shit load of clauses in his contract, the bloke is a massive flog and I’m pretty sure no club will go near him. He’s staying at Melbourne.


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My question is why the Dees gave him 7 years, as I assume they knew he had some issues before offering him that massive contract.

Maybe the Dees should have bitten the bullet and offloaded him last year when they probably would have gotten plenty for him.

The entire situation is just weird.

In the end he will probs just stay at Melbourne, unless they seriously are jack of him.

 

[calder_daddy]

Would people give up Stengle if I meant we only used one first rounders and got both Smith and Oliver?

Don’t shoot me, just coming at it a different angle

 

[numbwombat]

Would people give up Stengle if I meant we only used one first rounders and got both Smith and Oliver?

Don’t shoot me, just coming at it a different angle

I wouldn’t give up Stengle for anything. For all the talk about small forwards being replaceable, he’s maybe the best in the comp ATM and probably leading our goalkicking.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Would people give up Stengle if I meant we only used one first rounders and got both Smith and Oliver?

Don’t shoot me, just coming at it a different angle

I'm inclined to say no, but you'd think about it, that's for sure.

If you could guarantee me Clarry had his shit together that would sway things heavily...but I doubt we can guarantee anything right now.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

My question is why the Dees gave him 7 years, as I assume they knew he had some issues before offering him that massive contract.

Maybe the Dees should have bitten the bullet and offloaded him last year when they probably would have gotten plenty for him.

The entire situation is just weird.

In the end he will probs just stay at Melbourne, unless they seriously are jack of him.

In fairness to the Dees, if you're to believe the stories, Clarry's issues really started in early 2023.

Rumour goes that he was struggling mentally, ended up breaking up with a long term girlfriend, and it was all downhill from there.

It doesn't excuse his issues, and it doesn't fix them, either...but this isn't a Cousins situation where it had been going on for ages and he just never got caught.

It's all relatively recent, rather than an ongoing issue like Cousins which started when he was 19 or so.

 

[Gazzathegoat]

Would people give up Stengle if I meant we only used one first rounders and got both Smith and Oliver?

Don’t shoot me, just coming at it a different angle

Stengle is irreplaceable.

We must do all we can to keep him!

 

[Lana]

Duncan was on interview a week or 2 back ( I'm sure it was on krock) saying his feeling well and is keen to go on next year

That's when he should get the Bartel chat

 

[foxdog50]

That's when he should get the Bartel chat

I agree. I'm not sure why they have changed in there thinking between players like Bartel, Chapman, Stokes etc to what they are now like Tuhoy, Duncan etc

 

[Kobe Gryant]

I agree. I'm not sure why they have changed in there thinking between players like Bartel, Chapman, Stokes etc to what they are now like Tuhoy, Duncan etc

There's two schools of thought, but I'd say it's probably because it alienated champions of our club, and left them bitter towards the current regime in some cases.

Now, you could certainly mount a case that if we treated Bartel, Johnson, & Chapman that way...then why are Duncan & Touhy safe? and there's definitely some merit in that.

I'd presume that the club is taking the approach that two wrongs don't make a right though, and we should learn from that mistake.

Personally, I would've told Touhy to retire last year. The signs where there and it's only continued since....but I can understand why they didn't do it.

It doesn't mean they play forever on a free pass though, and some tough conversations will certainly need to be had with some players this year.

We are trying to become the real 'family club' after all, and making sure great servants leave on good terms would be a massive part of that.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

That doesn't bother me in the slightest, they all pretty much have one foot out of the door.

We're in a much better position than North were given we're transitioning with those guys still on the list, but it does give a sense of the terrain we're navigating

 

[Commando]

Would people give up Stengle if I meant we only used one first rounders and got both Smith and Oliver?

Don’t shoot me, just coming at it a different angle

Assuming he wants to leave anyway.. yes