List Mgmt. Glenn Luff - Has resigned as list manager

[rickety]

I do remember going to Kardinia Park as a young fella, and Kanga Kennedy, had Al Clarkson playing out of the goal square at FF.

Clarkson had a bit more mongrel in him than though.

 

[The Dingrel]

Clarkson had a bit more mongrel in him than though.

Still does!

 

[The Dingrel]

I know this won't be popular but would it have been worthwhile taking the Adelaide offer for pick #1?

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You can't change history so going forward, if a seriously juicy trade for our next first rounder was on offer, for instance two first rounders or a first and two good players or second rounders would that be worth looking deep and hard at at the end of this year to get in some of the missing demographic?

Along with the mid season pick and the PP of course.

You're 100pct correct.......

....."this won't be popular"

....I put it back to you then,,,,would you put JHF up for trade?,,,,reckon you'd get damn sight better offers than those proposed pre draft last year.
Theoretical I know as there's 0 chance of that happening, but I think it also answers your question.

 

[The Dingrel]

Anyone saying we did the wrong thing with Tarrant is kidding themselves. Have you watched him play at the tigers? He’s gone and constantly getting beaten and that’s with a team that’s decent an offers defensive pressure. If he was having 5 a week kicked on him people woudl be piling in saying why did we give him two.

Was 100% the right decision to let him go. Just a pity it’s Josh Walker down there who’s not up to it.

My tiges mates aren't a fan, reckon well past it, and an act of desperation by their club.

 

[shintemaster]

You're 100pct correct.......

....."I know this won't be popular"

....I put it back to you then,,,,would you put JHF up for trade?,,,,reckon you'd get damn sight better offers than those proposed pre draft last year.
Theoretical I know as there's 0 chance of that happening, but I think it also answers your question.

Honestly what were they offering - a couple of first rounders? (maybe some change?)

At face value even if they'd had picks 2, 3 & 4 today we would be comfortable with the decision. It was never a realistic offer.

 

[The Dingrel]

Righto. The list manager has a responsibility for carefully planning the demographics of the list. It was discussed from a mile out in the offseason how light on we were in key positions after losing Brown and Tarrant in consecutive years.

Of course we weren't going to find world-beater KPPs in the rookie draft or DFA circuit. But it was predicted that our AFL side could be exposed very quickly down back if something went awry. Ditto up forward where Larkey is rapidly headed for Ben Brown 2020 territory shouldering too much load solo.

As tazaa has said if we could add Walker, Bosenvulagi, Young, Greenwoood et al to our list just to "play roles" then we could've found other similar players to help us hold a structure while we develop. The VFL side hasn't been helped either by running a list so bereft of structure.

I can't see how the developing kids are benefited by running a list where players are having to play out of position to form a side (ie Bonar - Harry McKay). Injuries happen but we ran with a list that started the season with one arm behind our back.

Fwiw I rank the lack of small forwards as a list balance weakness also however accept that is is less dangerous to the side's long term competitiveness and structure.

Again as tazaa said not sure why the protectiveness of the club staff when questioning these things? We assembled a list that sits square at the bottom of the AFL and a VFL unit that's taken sound poundings with few clear apparent KPP understudies. Where's our next fullback or CHB coming from? Who's the developing KPF if Comben continues to break or Edwards is just a ruckman?

Nobody would expects these list players to be elite talents but IMO you need somebody there eg Josh Walker. The fact Luff bristled and cited McGuinness as a KPD option smacked of either arrogance or delusion to me. An eye around the league suggests other clubs don't run with such a high risk profile. And no, I don't think running a list structure this way assuming you're on the way to football nirvana in 3-4 years when things "come together" benefits the young mids or existing KPPs in any way.

He did the previous year when questioned why we didnt draft a key forward having lost Brown. Was along the lines of structuring up differently, Richmond won a flag without a key forward, etc etc.

 

[Devington]

I think we have to give the list management team more than 2 off seasons to judge their work.

It'd be like taking your brownies out of the oven at the half way cooking point, tasting them, declaring they're shit and tossing them.

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I think it's fair to judge them at any stage along the journey, drawing a line through their name is another matter.

 

[DuckYeah]

So we trade our first pick this year for a first round and a second round pick and address the needs based on if its pick 1 2 3 4? If we select another midfielder with our first pick and don’t trade that pick down it will ultimately etch the list management team as incompetent.

Reading the above opinions creates disregard for what behaviours become entrenched when you know you are simply going to get belted in the D50. Recruiting Lynch and not having a back up that can just get a fist into the contest. That is all, thats all that was needed. Just a back up, there’s a bunch of defenders out there to do that job.

How many times that ball was chipped in with a lob wedge and was just clunked in a pack. The big fella doesn’t even need to be able to kick the ball, just spoil and wear the KPF like a glove. Would of got one for practically free.

I don’t expect to win every game, I expect to be competitive in every game. 100 point losses do not fly.

 

[ferball]

Think there's some confusion between list management and recruitment from a high level.

List management - planning out the number of each player type, age and experience profiles etc on the list. Assessing what we have vs what we could have - eg retaining Jack Ziebell for 2023 vs other options for that list spot.

Recruitment - scouting and procuring players for the club.

List management is your overall portfolio (Brad Scott likes this). Recruitment is actually selecting and purchasing various investments or adjusting super options etc.

The recruitment decisions by the club remain works in progress. The list management decisions leading into 2022 are showing immediate results.

A couple of points then. The first is people shouldn't be looking at particular players and blaming their selection on Luff's supercoach.

The second is everything gets scrapped at the end of 2020.

At the end of 2019 we had four rising stars, a well balanced list, victory over the premiers and a win loss record that could have seen us push for the top four if we'd had that coach from round two or three. So the list management decisions that led us to here don't start till the end of 2020 and we're not sure who to blame for them. They seem like a group decision that was made as a realisation that we needed to act drastically now and deal with the consequences later. Or put it off and face even worse consequences later.

KPDs at the end of 2020 or for 2021 (including newly recruited players) - Tarrant, JWalker, Corr, McKay, McGuiness potentially. That's five. KPFs - Goldy, Campbell, JZ (lol), JWalker, Larkey and Comben with the last two really the only long term options. So more KPD options than rucks or forwards.

At the end of 2020 we no longer had Higgo, Jacobs, Tyson, Ahern from the midfield group. We had also stopped using Jack in the midfield by then and Cunners missed the season and may never play again.

From the end of 2020 we lost Daw, Durdin (KPDs), Williams, Pittard, EVW, Jmac and Murphy from the backline. That's mostly small or medium defenders (and we brought in a smaller KPD in Corr.)

We also got rid of Brown (KPF), Wood (small KPF) and Hosie. Daw could also swing forward. We had no real small forwards, maybe Mahony and Turner with Atu, Lazz and Spicer coming in and Hosie going.

We had Goldy, Xerri, JWalker and possibly Larkey or McKay who could ruck.

We needed to target mids, small and tall forwards, rucks and medium or smaller backs. The KPD group was the strongest group of talls we had at that point.

And we set a plan for a three to five year rebuild that seems to be addressed by getting in plenty of depth for positions and I assume we'll cycle thru it keeping the players who are good. But I also assume we set that plan in 2020 and changing it in response to Taz leaving is probably foolish.

The final point is that Taz wouldn't have made that much difference on the weekend. Maybe a couple of goals.

But the game is changing and we need players like Bonar and McGuiness. At Hawthorn Jiath in particular is showing where the game is going, just from sheer athleticism, but Scrimshaw and Hardwick are just as important to that set up. The game is moving away from gorilla KPDs and defending one on one and has been for a while. So McKay, Walker and a young development prospect is probably it in terms of how much list space we can devote to them. It seems as tho preventing the opportunities for gorilla KPFs will be more important than one on one contests.

Corr, McGuiness, Bonar, McDonald and maybe El Nour with McKay and a younger big unit like Busslinger might cover it. Maybe keep Mckay as depth.

So yeah obviously list holes will be exposed. Its exactly what you'd expect 18 months into a rebuild and it probably helps because its honest feedback on what needs fixing over the next three years and keeps us nearer to the better draft picks while we still need them.

 

[Psicosis]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

Yeah.

He’s a ********.

 

[Devington]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

We have no surplus of anything at the club OTHER than cap space.
Chirst allmighty.

 

[Themanbun]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

Guess if it eventuates at the end of the year and the club tries to make out that he 'walked' then a trend has well and truly emerged.

Time will tell. Could be BS.

 

[Merlin007]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

So I've got no reason to doubt your source, or the detail, but "Luff" is not an island unto himself; list decisions are a collegiate process overseen by Rawlings. A 'trend with Glenn' is not how the thing works

 

[The acurate one]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

Well when you put the ****ing King of Queens in charge what do we expect? In saying that Xerri isn't the answer regardless of the question. Also I believe Goldy isn't wanted.
I know a very good friend of his.

 

[Psicosis]

So I've got no reason to doubt your source, or the detail, but "Luff" is not an island unto himself; list decisions are a collegiate process overseen by Rawlings. A 'trend with Glenn' is not how the thing works

Although they all sit under the Brady umbrella, Luff is responsible for the contracts & negotiations. If you’d like a publicly available reference for this, I believe Scott Clayton stated it in a radio interview pre draft last year.

Happy for you to doubt if you please, as always I lay it out for ya’ll to play it out.

 

[Merlin007]

Although they all sit under the Brady umbrella, Luff is responsible for the contracts & negotiations. If you’d like a publicly available reference for this, I believe Scott Clayton stated it in a radio interview pre draft last year.

Happy for you to doubt if you please, as always I lay it out for ya’ll to play it out.

No need to lay anything out - Luff may well 'do' the negotiations, but the negotiating position is determined by the management structure, so if Xerri has been 'low balled', it's not because Luff woke up one morning and decided I've got a bright idea, but because that's the club's position. Whether it's right or wrong is another question

 

[King Corey]

I’ve been told that he has lowballed Xerri and really p***** him off. When I say lowball, I mean 1 year extension and on a marginal wage increase. This is despite the club telling him he’s the #1 ruck moving forward.

Xerri has a lot of interest elsewhere & “apparently” Luff has stopped communication with his manager given they want to talk about trade options.

Goldy wants out.

A bit of a trend surfacing with Glenn…

You know my thoughts mate.

 

[Themanbun]

No need to lay anything out - Luff may well 'do' the negotiations, but the negotiating position is determined by the management structure, so if Xerri has been 'low balled', it's not because Luff woke up one morning and decided I've got a bright idea, but because that's the club's position. Whether it's right or wrong is another question

Yep. Negotiators have an acute awareness of their authorising environment and general positions would be agreed. Can't say I'm surprised to hear that rumours are flying that it's only Luff making these decisions, though, although I highly doubt that's actually the case. Could be wrong though.

 

[Mr Lloyd Christmas]

Glenn Luff (wouldn't know him on a train if he sat next to me) is a gun and has McGuinness up his sleeve to fix our KPP woes, as he was a winger but grew taller quickly.

I see no issues or flaws at all with that kind of deep thinking and clear intellect.

 

[Devington]

You'd want to have an absolute mountain of faith in CCJ and Edwards if you're willing to basically tip Xerri out the door. One year and a small pay increase is plain stupid. If you insist on just the one year so you can find out if he and CCJ work together then at least give the bloke a payday and some extension triggers. We can afford it and he'll have far longer offers elsewhere. Being a scrooge in this situation makes zero sense to me.

 

[Le Grille]

Well we will be with a makeshift KPP post for the third week straight. The “manager” should be accountable for his team

 

[Le Grille]

You'd want to have an absolute mountain of faith in CCJ and Edwards if you're willing to basically tip Xerri out the door. One year and a small pay increase is plain stupid. If you insist on just the one year so you can find out if he and CCJ work together then at least give the bloke a payday and some extension triggers. We can afford it and he'll have far longer offers elsewhere. Being a scrooge in this situation makes zero sense to me.

It’s bizarre.

 

[Roscoe]

Bit of a trend is Taz, Ziebell & Goldy wanting multi-year deals when blind Freddy can see they're on the slide in terms of age and performance. Add Brown in when there were doubts as to his longer term durability.

 

[Themanbun]

You'd want to have an absolute mountain of faith in CCJ and Edwards if you're willing to basically tip Xerri out the door. One year and a small pay increase is plain stupid. If you insist on just the one year so you can find out if he and CCJ work together then at least give the bloke a payday and some extension triggers. We can afford it and he'll have far longer offers elsewhere. Being a scrooge in this situation makes zero sense to me.

It makes sense if you want them gone.