List Mgmt. Glenn Luff - Has resigned as list manager

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tazaa said:
This is why the cutting it Brown, Majak and Tarrant made no sense.
They havnt been replaced, werent keeping anyone out of the side and we’re paying the price for it.

McKay, Larkey and Comben. That’s it.
It’s ******* insane
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The only one of those players worth keeping was Maj and at the time he looked cooked. Can you imagine Brown on $750K+ per year?

We said at the end of 2020 we're rebuilding thru the draft. The only way to do that is to tank and the only way to legitimately tank is to get rid of players who might bring you meaninglesss wins that keep you out of the bottom four or five spots on the ladder for a few years.

Maybe they went to hard but its better to **** up by cutting to hard than not hard enough if you are chasing draft picks.
 
F_therest said:
From an article in 2019 - "Prior to joining North, Luff worked at Champion Data for 20 years, breaking down game data to identify trends, playing styles and team tendencies".

Initially joined as 'Head of Analysis' for 12 months then got the List Manager role.

Now I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most list managers spend some time in the actual list management team first, as a recruiter for example, before being promoted to List Manager. He's really come from left field with virtually no experience in that department. No experience at an actual AFL footy club prior to joining North yet gets such an important role 1 year in.

I'm not a North supporter but a bit of a footy nut so here are just a few recent decisions I query:
  • Moving Brown on - Now I know he had a down year (some excuses with injury and personal tragedy though) and wanted a relatively long-term deal on decent coin...but the guy seemed pretty loyal to North and had kicked 60+ goals 3 years in a row despite spending time in the ruck. One of North's best players and a must-keep in my opinion. Would have helped the team be more competitive and helped Larkey in particular. Some might scoff at the money he wanted, but when the club is throwing money away at guys like Aidan Corr, I know which player I'd prefer. Also not a great look to the rest of the playing group that a loyal, top player got turfed. Didn't even get a good return for him, gave him away for unders.
  • 5 year deal for McDonald - He did finish that season winning the B&F and may have been seen as the captain in waiting. But I think most would agree the contract was overkill for a guy like McDonald. Outside that one great season he's only been a 'good' player, not a star. Not doing a whole lot currently. Stuck with the contract until 2026 now.
  • 2 year deal for Ziebell - Maybe understandable? Captain and at 30 yrs old, 2 years isn't awful. The club certainly needed some mature leadership...though not sure he's delivering his end of the bargain.
  • Delisting Dumont - Not sure about this one. I know he had injuries etc and declined as a player, but he's actually been doing OK for Port this year...missed the North game due to COVID. A former vice-captain, may have been worth keeping, possibly at the expense of a different senior player.
  • CCJ trade - Definitely overpaid given the strong position North were in at the trade table. CCJ wasn't even in Richmond's best 22, making giving up a 2nd round pick overs. The fact North now have the selection issue of Goldy/Xerri/CCJ is also pretty poor.
  • Corr contract - Never thought much of him at GWS, he's really nothing special basically a role player. Don't hate getting him as he was a FA and North needed some mature bodies, but the contract is certainly overs.
  • Drafting Phillips over Logan McDonald - Now, I'm no junior footy watcher. Maybe this will turn out to be the right call, it's early days. But jeez you'd want Phillips to be a much better footy player than McDonald IMO to pick him at #3 when McDonald went the pick after. I am basing this on the fact that North had no key forwards except Larkey, they are typically hard to get, the best are usually high draft picks and they take longer to develop so you want to get them in early in a rebuild. Had a golden opportunity to draft one. North had also already invested in midfield talent with guys like Simpkin/LDU/Thomas. Also took Powell and JHF later but they came after...still, that is a lot of high draft picks used for one area of the ground at the expense of all others.
  • General lack of KPPS - This one is a no brainer. To have basically 1 key forward (2 with Comden) and 2 key defenders on a list in total is just ridiculous. Ties a bit into my point above in not drafting McDonald, but needed to get more in somehow. Should have at least 3-4 of each.
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Agree with all of this except the Luke McDonald contract and the Phillips over McDonald decision.

McDonald is in an age bracket that we just can’t afford to lose. At a guess, I would say his deal is heavily front ended to the point that he will be on very little by years 4 and 5. He is a very good player when match fit.

In regards to the Phillips decision, I just find it ridiculous that people find it a poor decision at this early stage. Phillips could end up the next Sam Mitchell and McDonald could end up the next Sam Weideman. You can’t call it a bad decision when it hasn’t played out. McDonald has barely got near it this year in a good side. Imagine if he was playing in our forward line. Phillips has had to deal with no footy as a 17 year old, 2 interrupted preseasons, Covid and glandular fever. With all that in mind, it makes it all even more bewildering that it’s a bad decision.


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The acurate one said:
Just read the first few pages of this thread and it had me pumped all over again.

What happened to turned you all into Luffites ?
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I don’t think the SNTS (Shinny New Toy Syndrome) got us this time, I think we realised we’ve been played at the now infamous Zoom Q&A..

The fact we all knew we have a KCGM Superpit sized hole in defence with Taz leaving but the ‘solution’ to that was zero gamer Matt McGuiness growing 3cm told me everything I needed to know..

Add that Zoom Q&A to the growing list of NMBF folklore..
 
Mixed Results said:
Luke McDonald and Jack Ziebell are pretty good in the backline. I think there's some blame to fall on David Noble's shoulders for taking two of our most important players and moving them away from the positions where they played their best football.
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Ziebell is a liability down back. How he got away with it for so long is commendable.

McDonald should be played there and never moved again.

We have this obsession about rotating players around to make us more flexible and unpredictable. The players need to learn one role/position before they’re moved around.

The perfect example is LDU being moved onto a forward flank a few weeks ago after having a 11 disposal 2nd quarter. I mean seriously wtf are they doing?


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Nutjob said:
Agree with all of this except the Luke McDonald contract and the Phillips over McDonald decision.

McDonald is in an age bracket that we just can’t afford to lose. At a guess, I would say his deal is heavily front ended to the point that he will be on very little by years 4 and 5. He is a very good player when match fit.

In regards to the Phillips decision, I just find it ridiculous that people find it a poor decision at this early stage. Phillips could end up the next Sam Mitchell and McDonald could end up the next Sam Weideman. You can’t call it a bad decision when it hasn’t played out. McDonald has barely got near it this year in a good side. Imagine if he was playing in our forward line. Phillips has had to deal with no footy as a 17 year old, 2 interrupted preseasons, Covid and glandular fever. With all that in mind, it makes it all even more bewildering that it’s a bad decision.


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Click to expand...

Absolutely agree on Phillips and I did preface that point by saying it's too early to say for sure if it was a good or bad call.

BUT I do stand by the fact that taking their names out of it and going by the positions they play, not picking the key forward when the clear opportunity was there could be a real blunder. We all know they are harder to get than midfielders.

North had already invested high picks in their midfield with Simpkin, LDU and Thomas. They knew they had eyes on Powell in the same draft. They also knew that at the time the only real key forward on the list was Larkey. Key position players typically take longer to develop so it's a sound strategy to bring them in early in a rebuild when you can.

So, names aside, I think choosing the key forward would have been the better choice when you consider the overall building of the list, unless the midfielder was a far better prospect. The fact Sydney chose McDonald with the next pick would suggest they are pretty close in ability. Time will tell.
 
F_therest said:
Absolutely agree on Phillips and I did preface that point by saying it's too early to say for sure if it was a good or bad call.

BUT I do stand by the fact that taking their names out of it and going by the positions they play, not picking the key forward when the clear opportunity was there could be a real blunder. We all know they are harder to get than midfielders.

North had already invested high picks in their midfield with Simpkin, LDU and Thomas. They knew they had eyes on Powell in the same draft. They also knew that at the time the only real key forward on the list was Larkey. Key position players typically take longer to develop so it's a sound strategy to bring them in early in a rebuild when you can.

So, names aside, I think choosing the key forward would have been the better choice when you consider the overall building of the list, unless the midfielder was a far better prospect. The fact Sydney chose McDonald with the next pick would suggest they are pretty close in ability. Time will tell.
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Logan McDonald kicked 1 point from 6 disposals last night when his team had 35 scoring shots.

Can you imagine him in our forward line?

DGB would be handy, but even he isn’t really setting the world on fire.
 
I wonder if when Luff recruited Atu he envisioned him being moved down back and floundering. Or if when he recruited Coleman-Jones he pictured him playing almost purely forward.

He brings on Greenwood on the list as cover, yet Greenwood is attending centre bounces while two of our most talented players in Davies-Uniacke and Thomas have to spend time up forward. He has Ziebell and McDonald as veterans for the backline, yet one has kicked two goals in five weeks up forward while McDonald is struggling on the wing yet again. He brings in a weapon in Stephenson that can play in the middle or deep forward, yet Noble has him doing neither.

He has players like McKay, Cunnington, Simpkin, Hall, and Jason Horne-Francis who aren't even available for selection. That easily could have been the top five of the Syd Barker this year had things gone differently.

He also has his list playing for a coach who is tracking to be one of the worst coaches in the history of the AFL. A GM of footy who had spent a decade out of the coaching box. Who last coached at a time when zones were just starting to become popular.

It baffles me that people are turning on Luff and Rawlings in defence of David Noble.
 
F_therest said:
Absolutely agree on Phillips and I did preface that point by saying it's too early to say for sure if it was a good or bad call.

BUT I do stand by the fact that taking their names out of it and going by the positions they play, not picking the key forward when the clear opportunity was there could be a real blunder. We all know they are harder to get than midfielders.

North had already invested high picks in their midfield with Simpkin, LDU and Thomas. They knew they had eyes on Powell in the same draft. They also knew that at the time the only real key forward on the list was Larkey. Key position players typically take longer to develop so it's a sound strategy to bring them in early in a rebuild when you can.

So, names aside, I think choosing the key forward would have been the better choice when you consider the overall building of the list, unless the midfielder was a far better prospect. The fact Sydney chose McDonald with the next pick would suggest they are pretty close in ability. Time will tell.
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The problem with McDonald (and some if the draft watchers can confirm) is he kind of came from the clouds as he spent most of the year a late first rounder but benefited from actually being on display. It's arguable if he would have gone that high if the Victorian kids got to play. On the other hand Phillips was a pretty universal top 3 pick from early on, and often in the pick one discussion. IIRC McDonald was more linked to us through the media thinking we needed to replace Brown straight off the bat but there's no real indication he was ever in our thoughts with a pick that low. Seems we had more link with Elijah Holland and there's also some thought we were always drafting Phillips and unsuccessfully tried to trade our pick down with GC to take him a little later in the draft.
 
Nutjob said:
Agree with all of this except the Luke McDonald contract and the Phillips over McDonald decision.

McDonald is in an age bracket that we just can’t afford to lose. At a guess, I would say his deal is heavily front ended to the point that he will be on very little by years 4 and 5. He is a very good player when match fit.

In regards to the Phillips decision, I just find it ridiculous that people find it a poor decision at this early stage. Phillips could end up the next Sam Mitchell and McDonald could end up the next Sam Weideman. You can’t call it a bad decision when it hasn’t played out. McDonald has barely got near it this year in a good side. Imagine if he was playing in our forward line. Phillips has had to deal with no footy as a 17 year old, 2 interrupted preseasons, Covid and glandular fever. With all that in mind, it makes it all even more bewildering that it’s a bad decision.


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Click to expand...
Has Logan re-signed with COLA yet?
 

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the big lebowski said:
Logan McDonald kicked 1 point from 6 disposals last night when his team had 35 scoring shots.

Can you imagine him in our forward line?

DGB would be handy, but even he isn’t really setting the world on fire.
Click to expand...
Thilthorpe playing SANFL
Jamarra playing VFL
Cox Emergency
DGB playing AFL with minimal output
Perkins playing AFL & had a good game
Reid playing VFL
McDonald playing AFL with minimal output
Campbell playing AFL with ok output
Hollands injury playing VFL
Phillips illness

Sometimes our supporters get tunnel vision. The entire top 10 of the 2020 draft has been pretty underwhelming.
 
F_therest said:
Absolutely agree on Phillips and I did preface that point by saying it's too early to say for sure if it was a good or bad call.

BUT I do stand by the fact that taking their names out of it and going by the positions they play, not picking the key forward when the clear opportunity was there could be a real blunder. We all know they are harder to get than midfielders.

North had already invested high picks in their midfield with Simpkin, LDU and Thomas. They knew they had eyes on Powell in the same draft. They also knew that at the time the only real key forward on the list was Larkey. Key position players typically take longer to develop so it's a sound strategy to bring them in early in a rebuild when you can.

So, names aside, I think choosing the key forward would have been the better choice when you consider the overall building of the list, unless the midfielder was a far better prospect. The fact Sydney chose McDonald with the next pick would suggest they are pretty close in ability. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

You pick best available that high, it’s pretty plain simple for me. A club reaches and you get a McCartin instead of a Petracca.

At the time, we did also have Comben who we have big wraps on and has finally got his body right. We have also added Edwards since then as well.

I am very happy with Phillips, but I think not picking DGB could be the one we regret if Phillips doesn’t reach the level we think he will. Our forward line stocks really isn’t the issue right now, it’s our defence.


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This "Phillips" pick shit does my head in!

The recruiters I know (7 off them, including my brother), ALL had Phillips before McDonald!

At the end of the day, Will is playing in our colours for OUR team, McDonald isn't! Will has had an ordinary run of luck, but I'll be supporting him, day in day out while he's wearing the North Melbourne jumper!!!
 
Basically no one is saying we should have taken McDonald over Phillips. (outside one opposition poster I think)

Seeing those in the backline yesterday (who tried valiantly but aren't good enough) was enough to tell you everything you needed to know about how competent (or not) our list management team actually is.
 
Last edited:
Mr Lloyd Christmas said:
Basically no one is saying we should have taken McDonald over Phillips. (outside one opposition poster I think)

It also is an unnecessary distraction in the thread that doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether Luff has been/and is doing a good job.

Seeing those in the backline yesterday (who tried valiantly imo) was enough to tell you everything you needed to know about how competent our list management team actually is.
Click to expand...

There is a whole thread about it on the main board.


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Nutjob said:
There is a whole thread about it on the main board.


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Click to expand...

And? It's irrelevant here.

This is the Luff thread, not Phillips who looks good albeit unlucky health wise.

Back to our list management.

Why we have Young, Atu and Walker playing 1sts in defense as we "have no-one else" - it's an indictment on the club.
 
Mr Lloyd Christmas said:
Basically no one is saying we should have taken McDonald over Phillips. (outside one opposition poster I think)

It also is an unnecessary distraction in the thread that doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether Luff has been/and is doing a good job.

Seeing those in the backline yesterday (who tried valiantly imo) was enough to tell you everything you needed to know about how competent our list management team actually is.
Click to expand...
The only part I question is gambling on Comben to be our next forward and he can’t even get on the park.

Now I don’t know how much of a difference there was in where recruiters rated Phillips and McDonald, but if Comben can’t get fit enough to play at AFL level we have a massive hole in our list. You wouldn’t think the midfield will be a list hole.

It’s all hypothetical now and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if there were questions on Comben’s durability then it’s a big gamble to not fill a list hole, especially if they were rated closely.
 

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List Mgmt. Glenn Luff - Has resigned as list manager

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