Gold Coast Kangaroos does have a good ring to it

[Rob]

Enough with this Southport shit. They are a largely a social club with a football club on the side. If the only reason to relocate North is because of pensioner pokies money then why cant we stay in Melbourne and call ourselves the Crown Casino Kangaroos.

So bloody do that! The issue is that your club is dependant entirely on AFL welfare to survive, and the AFL want a long term plan for viability. If it's not the Gold Coast, then what? Call yourself the Crazy Johns Myer Pepsi Blowhards for all I care, but at least come up with a serious long term plan to get off welfare. And 'Stay in Melbourne and keep doing what we're doing' is not going to hold up.

Southport is the Essendon equilavent in the QAFL. Rich off-field but hated by the rest of the clubs. No Broadbeach supporter would barrack for Southport.

All 200 of them? What a dent that's going to make.

The Titans are a rugby league club in a rugby league dominated state. That is why they are going well.

The AFL trying to put a team into the Gold Coast based on the success of the Titans would be like the NRL saying that because the Adelaide Crows are doing so well in SA that we should put a rugby league team there.

Doesn't stop a lot of Roos supporters trying to claim an AFL club won't work there because rugby clubs have failed in the past. Can't have it both ways.

 

[jacko57]

How about Darwin's theory applied to football? The Kangaroos aren't going to get a smaller supporter base by moving to the Gold Coast.

And you can guarantee they'll get a bigger supporter base by moving to the GC, where the ground has a 12,000 capacity ?

 

[Rob]

And you can guarantee they'll get a bigger supporter base by moving to the GC, where the ground has a 12,000 capacity ?

Of course no-one can guarantee that, but just about anyone with a clue can guarantee they've got a better chance of achieving long term viability than the zero chance they have if they stay in Melbourne.

If you think the Gold Coast will be easy and no work will be required to see tens of thousands of members signing up then you're deluded. But you're even more deluded if you think 10-15,000 more members in Melbourne are going to pop up out of nowhere.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

If North Melbourne moved full time to the Gold Coast they would be viewed as a Gold Coast club after the initials bumps along the road. Relocation is never completely rosy, it always takes time for the team to be fulling adopted ala Sydney Swans.

I don't know why some keep pointing to North Melbourne's present Gold Coast membership figures, as if the number of people who pay membership to see a blow in team three times a year being low is so surprising.

 

[DarwinRoo]

So bloody do that! The issue is that your club is dependant entirely on AFL welfare to survive, and the AFL want a long term plan for viability. If it's not the Gold Coast, then what? Call yourself the Crazy Johns Myer Pepsi Blowhards for all I care, but at least come up with a serious long term plan to get off welfare. And 'Stay in Melbourne and keep doing what we're doing' is not going to hold up.



All 200 of them? What a dent that's going to make.



Doesn't stop a lot of Roos supporters trying to claim an AFL club won't work there because rugby clubs have failed in the past. Can't have it both ways.

Oh thats right. We dont get any money from sponsors or members or merchandise do we? Its all money from the AFL.
And its only North that recieves assistance from the AFL. No other club recieves financial assistance at all do they.

I also have a real problem with the AFL making $780 million dollars from TV rights and clubs not being entitled to at least ask for some of it back. Its like the bloke who has just won a few quid on the horses and then not shouting his mate a beer.

How much money did the AFL make of Wayne Carey's profile. How much are they reaping from FNF. It was North that had the initiative to start friday night football and id say without it TV rights would certainly not be worth as much.

You cant just put a team in an area without at least knowing if it can stand on its own two feet. It would be like opening a pr0n store in Iran.

Isnt that the whole point of playing games interstate. To corner the market in an area and to gain as much support from members and sponsors as it can so the club can continue on in Melbourne and not necessarily have to relocate.

How about we see how the Roos games go in the next 3 years until then we are a Melbourne based club.

 

[Rob]

Oh thats right. We dont get any money from sponsors or members or merchandise do we? Its all money from the AFL.
And its only North that recieves assistance from the AFL. No other club recieves financial assistance at all do they.

Bottom line - remove the welfare the club dies. Simple as that. Irrespective of what happens at other clubs.

I also have a real problem with the AFL making $780 million dollars from TV rights and clubs not being entitled to at least ask for some of it back. Its like the bloke who has just won a few quid on the horses and then not shouting his mate a beer.

Eh? The issue isn't the AFL giving money back, you'll find the AFL distributes the vast majority of it's operating surplus back to the clubs. Sometimes more than 100% of it. $6.2 million this year to all clubs. But your club gets over $9 million (and yes, I know other clubs get additional cash as well). I don't have a problem with short term assistance to a club to help it get over any one off issues, but FFS where there is no light at the end of the tunnel (such as at your club) serious changes need to be made. You can't keep pulling huge amounts away from other clubs year after year. Eventually the AFL won't be in such decadent times, the welfare will run out and the club dies anyway with tens of millions down the tube that could have been spent on securing the long term future of clubs instead of just propping up losses.
The TV rights windfall have presented your club with a wonderful opportunity - to develop a long term viable support base. But that can't be done in Melbourne.

How much money did the AFL make of Wayne Carey's profile. How much are they reaping from FNF. It was North that had the initiative to start friday night football and id say without it TV rights would certainly not be worth as much.

Great, what's your point? You really think Friday night football wouldn't exist without your club? Get your hand off it.

You cant just put a team in an area without at least knowing if it can stand on its own two feet. It would be like opening a pr0n store in Iran.

Isnt that the whole point of playing games interstate. To corner the market in an area and to gain as much support from members and sponsors as it can so the club can continue on in Melbourne and not necessarily have to relocate.

Fine, so get off welfare. You've been playing funny buggers interstate for nearly 10 years now, and for what? Still making losses, still have a pitiful supporter base, and you can't say you've attracted any new supporters. What's the long term plan?

F**k this rain at the world cup is giving me the sh*ts.

 

[Tas]

Bottom line - remove the welfare the club dies. Simple as that. Irrespective of what happens at other clubs.

Move the club there and have both Brisbane and North on 30 years of mega handouts. What would you prefer?

CBF should be abolished, as long as the AFL returns a more reasonable return to the clubs. They should be returning a minimum of 75% of the revenue to the clubs, given they have no significant overheads.

You will find with a more reasonable distribution of the broadcasting rights, all clubs would be turning in at minimum $3 to $4 million profits without any need for assistance. They could then raise the salary cap and return more to players.

They bleed out a minimum just so they can manipulate clubs and force them to play games in development regions. Would we be seeing any games in Canberra, Tasmania, Darwin or Gold Coast if the AFL didn't deliberately distribute a bare minimum to the clubs?

 

[Rob]

Move the club there and have both Brisbane and North on 30 years of mega handouts. What would you prefer?

Brisbane? You're not seriously suggesting that the Lions are going to suffer financially with a club on the Gold Coast?

CBF should be abolished, as long as the AFL returns a more reasonable return to the clubs. They should be returning a minimum of 75% of the revenue to the clubs, given they have no significant overheads.

You will find with a more reasonable distribution of the broadcasting rights, all clubs would be turning in at minimum $3 to $4 million profits without any need for assistance. They could then raise the salary cap and return more to players.

They bleed out a minimum just so they can manipulate clubs and force them to play games in development regions. Would we be seeing any games in Canberra, Tasmania, Darwin or Gold Coast if the AFL didn't deliberately distribute a bare minimum to the clubs?

You are the conspiracy theorist aren't you?

I'll say just the one thing though - if the AFL distributed more money to clubs equally, then the salary cap would be a fair bit higher. You'd have clubs making higher and higher profits which the players wouldn't stand for. They're starting to get a bit agitated as it is.

 

[LancePicioane]

Bottom line - remove the welfare the club dies. Simple as that. Irrespective of what happens at other clubs.

Remove welfare and Dogs, Roos, Port, Swans, Demons die

Can't run a competition with 11 clubs.

Bottom line.

 

[jacko57]

Of course no-one can guarantee that, but just about anyone with a clue can guarantee they've got a better chance of achieving long term viability than the zero chance they have if they stay in Melbourne.

quote]
OK, so you're arguing on the same basis as Caroline Wilson : theories, assumptions and asertions are all we need in order to argue that a club MUST relocate. You're in elite company there.

 

[The Donners]

Southport Shinboners...Would be one of the best names in the AFL!

No worse than Port Adelaide Power! hahaha

 

[The Donners]

What's your compelling reason that we can't? Because the AFL told you so?

Because you have one of the lowest supporter bases in the country, you have no money and the AFL are busting a nut to relocate a Victorian team.

Plus I would've thought the fact that the Kangaroos dropped the North Melbourne title would've been a bit of a give away!

 

[Matt_TY]

They did that when they were pushing some games in Sydney, several years ago.

What you'll notice has happened since then is that

-The "Kangas" version of the club song is no longer sung, instead we hear the "North Melbourne" version
-Their new logo displays the words "North Melbourne Football Club" where their previous logo did not.

Get with the times, mate. North is staying in Melbourne for the foreseeable future, and a good thing too.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Bottom line - remove the welfare the club dies. Simple as that. Irrespective of what happens at other clubs.



Eh? The issue isn't the AFL giving money back, you'll find the AFL distributes the vast majority of it's operating surplus back to the clubs. Sometimes more than 100% of it. $6.2 million this year to all clubs. But your club gets over $9 million (and yes, I know other clubs get additional cash as well). I don't have a problem with short term assistance to a club to help it get over any one off issues, but FFS where there is no light at the end of the tunnel (such as at your club) serious changes need to be made. You can't keep pulling huge amounts away from other clubs year after year. Eventually the AFL won't be in such decadent times, the welfare will run out and the club dies anyway with tens of millions down the tube that could have been spent on securing the long term future of clubs instead of just propping up losses.
The TV rights windfall have presented your club with a wonderful opportunity - to develop a long term viable support base. But that can't be done in Melbourne.




Great, what's your point? You really think Friday night football wouldn't exist without your club? Get your hand off it.



Fine, so get off welfare. You've been playing funny buggers interstate for nearly 10 years now, and for what? Still making losses, still have a pitiful supporter base, and you can't say you've attracted any new supporters. What's the long term plan?

F**k this rain at the world cup is giving me the sh*ts.

Well you didnt see Collingwood and Essendon playing alot of friday night football till the TV rights deal came in. North came up with the idea in the very early 90's. Ten years before the real big amounts of money were going to be made. The club found a day that would make some money and the supporters backed it by showing up in droves.

Well if the club is still in bad shape after 3 years then by all means the relocation option should be considered but not before every avenue is exhausted.

Maybe in 3 years we might be making big profits and the Dockers might have won a flag. But maybe thats just wishful thinking on my part.

 

[The Donners]

They did that when they were pushing some games in Sydney, several years ago.

What you'll notice has happened since then is that

-The "Kangas" version of the club song is no longer sung, instead we hear the "North Melbourne" version
-Their new logo displays the words "North Melbourne Football Club" where their previous logo did not.

Get with the times, mate. North is staying in Melbourne for the foreseeable future, and a good thing too.

I think you'll find there are a couple of clubs who have their previous names on their logo/jumpers to appease loyal supporters i.e. Footscray Football Club.

As for when the move occurs, that is difficult to predict, however, once the AFL wish to increase profit margins other than by increasing prices at the gates, they will stop giving handouts to certain Victorian clubs. If a club can't survive without handouts, has to reduce playing lists to cut costs and can't increase memberships even after a successful decade, you've got a move on your hands.

As for playing in Sydney a couple of years ago, there are three reasons why they would do this:
- to find a larger supporter base
- to test potential markets for relocation
- the AFL provides funding as it is promoting the game

Wake up to yourself, the Kangas will move before my time is up... possibly before Sheedy leaves the Dons as coach... which could be longer than I live!

 

[samiam]

And you can guarantee they'll get a bigger supporter base by moving to the GC, where the ground has a 12,000 capacity ?

18,021 there this afternoon.

 

[The Toecutter]

Remove welfare and Dogs, Roos, Port, Swans, Demons die

Can't run a competition with 11 clubs.

Bottom line.

Northern Kangaroos, West Sydney Bulldogs, Tassie Hawks and Canberra Cats/Saints/Demons?

 

[Tas]

Brisbane? You're not seriously suggesting that the Lions are going to suffer financially with a club on the Gold Coast?

What did the Lions lose last year? Close to a million, projecting another loss this year. I am not making it up, this is exactly what Leigh Matthews and other Brisbane officals are saying. Their support in SEQ is already on the decline and that region is relatively close to Brisbane. They have a few rugby teams in the region during the same season drawing support away from them.

To push another club there so close to them when they are still in their infancy stage of developing a market in Queensland is irresponsible. What do they have, 24k members including the Fitzroy supporters. They should really be sustaining 35k before another club is pushed into that region.

I like Brisbane, as a club, they have done it hard like we have had to do it hard. If push comes to shove and we must move to survive I would want to make sure where we are going is better than where we are and we do not threaten other clubs where we are going.

You are the conspiracy theorist aren't you?

I'll say just the one thing though - if the AFL distributed more money to clubs equally, then the salary cap would be a fair bit higher. You'd have clubs making higher and higher profits which the players wouldn't stand for. They're starting to get a bit agitated as it is.

They should get agitated, if they returned more to the clubs then clubs would all be healthy and have the scope to pay them 20-30% more than what they are getting.

If AFL distributed 75% of their $1.4 billion, all clubs could afford to pay 20-30% more and still make a a comfortable profit.

When the AFL starts talking about spending $30 million here, $200 million there, etc... ask yourself where is this money coming from.

 

[jacko57]

18,021 there this afternoon.

Where ??

 

[Rob]

What did the Lions lose last year? Close to a million, projecting another loss this year. I am not making it up, this is exactly what Leigh Matthews and other Brisbane officals are saying. Their support in SEQ is already on the decline and that region is relatively close to Brisbane. They have a few rugby teams in the region during the same season drawing support away from them.

Brisbane have about $6 million in cash reserves, they can afford to spend like a bitch because they've got the money to do it. I'm sure if they didn't have the case they'd cut back on their football department spending - which currently is about the 4th or 5th highest in the league from memory.
Don't try and pretend that the Lions are in strife financially.

To push another club there so close to them when they are still in their infancy stage of developing a market in Queensland is irresponsible. What do they have, 24k members including the Fitzroy supporters. They should really be sustaining 35k before another club is pushed into that region.

Why? It's a different market than the Melbourne market. People don't buy memberships for $130 in Brisbane - they pay top dollar (up to $500) for a reserved seat and they earn a sh*tload of signage and corporate facilities. 24,000 Lions members probably are worth more revenue to them than 35,000 bargain basement memberships of a Victorian club.

And in any case, the Gold Coast is a different market. You really think people in Brisbane are going to suddenly switch allegiances? What rot.

I like Brisbane, as a club, they have done it hard like we have had to do it hard. If push comes to shove and we must move to survive I would want to make sure where we are going is better than where we are and we do not threaten other clubs where we are going.

Well, you'd want to do something, because it's pretty clear the AFL is getting sick of pumping money down the bottomless pit. Don't like relocation? That's fine, but you better come up with a realistic long term plan soon.

They should get agitated, if they returned more to the clubs then clubs would all be healthy and have the scope to pay them 20-30% more than what they are getting.

If AFL distributed 75% of their $1.4 billion, all clubs could afford to pay 20-30% more and still make a a comfortable profit.

When the AFL starts talking about spending $30 million here, $200 million there, etc... ask yourself where is this money coming from.

We all know where it's coming from. It's not like AFL spending is not known to anyone that wants to look hard enough.

 

[Rob]

Remove welfare and Dogs, Roos, Port, Swans, Demons die

Can't run a competition with 11 clubs.

Bottom line.

Which of course is crap. You can argue the Dogs would go under, maybe the Dees, but Port and Sydney get money for a specified additional spending amount. And in any case, in both cases it's about the same as they would get if the CBF was abolished and money was distributed evenly to all clubs.
I do think it's crap what they get, but it's not the difference between survival and death for either club.

And even more importantly, remove the CBF and you might force clubs to find a workable long term solution instead of just doing nothing and burning through loads of other clubs' money.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

And even more importantly, remove the CBF and you might force clubs to find a workable long term solution instead of just doing nothing and burning through loads of other clubs' money.

So every club will get the same amount of Friday night games, the same amount of primetime games, the same amount of FTA coverage and the same draw?

It works both ways.

I have no problem with the big Melbourne clubs and interstate clubs getting a bigger slice of the media pie - it makes sense to look for the most profitable ways - but don't then turn around and say all clubs have to fend for themselves without assistance.

 

[Rob]

So every club will get the same amount of Friday night games, the same amount of primetime games, the same amount of FTA coverage and the same draw?

Excellent.

Of course not, it's up to the club to position themselves to be attractive to fans, TV viewers, TV networks and stadiums so they can get the best deal.
Of course, that can be hard to do when you're competing with 9 other clubs in the same market, but you obviously can't be opposed to relocation yet still complain about that. That's just hypocritical.

But don't complain about your clubs draw. Statistically, it's about average. It's certainly not the worst in the league, and most definitely nowhere near bad enough to justify more money from the AFL.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Of course not, it's up to the club to position themselves to be attractive to fans, TV viewers, TV networks and stadiums so they can get the best deal.

You don't think the pecking order has already been set though? It's like suddenly putting a salary cap on the EPL and expecting it to becoming an even competition; the most marketable teams will still be the most marketable simply because of what is already in place.

Of course, that can be hard to do when you're competing with 9 other clubs in the same market, but you obviously can't be opposed to relocation yet still complain about that. That's just hypocritical.

Only in the eyes of someone who knows they'll never have to worry about their club going under. It's amazing the amount of people who try and judge what North fans are going through when they support an interstate club.

I have no problem with competing with nine other clubs, I just have a problem with being expected to do it unassisted.

But don't complain about your clubs draw. Statistically, it's about average. It's certainly not the worst in the league, and most definitely nowhere near bad enough to justify more money from the AFL.

And you're proving my point further. We don't get primetime games, we don't get games on FTA. We travel interstate a lot because no one requests to play us in Melbourne like they would a Collingwood or an Essendon. This is all fine, I understand it and the reasons why. Yet we're then supposed to battle it out without any league assistance? How?

People can go on about how we should come up with ways to be more marketable and attract more members, but it stops there. Stop being general and give some logical, feasible suggestions in today's market for the club to pursue, options that they haven't already discussed.

The CBF is a compensation for the smaller clubs who don't get the same marketing and exposure as others. You can't just take it away and expect them to fend for themselves, yet still want Collingwood and Essendon playing Anzac day every year and still want the biggest drawing clubs playing Friday nights and on FTA.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Of course not, it's up to the club to position themselves to be attractive to fans, TV viewers, TV networks and stadiums so they can get the best deal.
Of course, that can be hard to do when you're competing with 9 other clubs in the same market, but you obviously can't be opposed to relocation yet still complain about that. That's just hypocritical.

But don't complain about your clubs draw. Statistically, it's about average. It's certainly not the worst in the league, and most definitely nowhere near bad enough to justify more money from the AFL.

You make a good point there but id say that we play a style of football that is more pleasing on the eye than sydney or adelaide so why dont we get as much tv time as them.

Out of Victorian clubs we seem to travel more than the rest and thats not including the home away from home games.