Review Good/Bad/Ugly vs Richmond, R5 2022

[LeftyLuke]

It was interesting that you and Carmo (below) replied to the same post. Both made me think more about RoB:
--- RoB has played enough footy to know that Premierships are not built on a player or team having a shit first half.
--- if he found a way to change/improve his game after half-time, kudos to him. It's on me that I didn't notice it.
--- RoB's mark and goal in Q3 were good, too, but did you find yourself thinking "Oh jeez, he won't kick this" from 30m out? I did and I'd love to have more confidence in his kicking.
However, the comments below put an entirely different slant on what RoB does and might explain why he hasn't been dropped for Strachan, IF he's acting under Nicks' instruction.


Your thoughtful post made me think hard about my perspective on the whole ruckwork 'problem' (which is not a problem if it's a part of the game play as you suggest, but that's a big IF). This point especially:
"This is how it will be in finals. So its a template built for finals from day 1." is a bold statement.

Is Nicks astute enough to have planned the above, way back at the rebuild stage? ie "Let's do this now, so that in 4-5 years when we're playing Finals ....".
Sorry, but I doubt it.
I think the scrapping you discuss just makes best use of RoB's limitations and minimises the damage from CBs and stoppages. RoB sometimes gets a decent tap but many are sharked by or down the throat of oppo mids and away they go, because they set up outside better and our mids defend poorly.
That scrapping is also exaggerated because our mids often find themselves close together, all ball-hunting --- hence the panicked handballs in tight to a static teammate a metre away.

I think:
"You'll almost never see us tap to the mid running past for a clean free flowing exit. That's not our game...." is because RoB is not a very good tap ruckman and our mids set up badly in close. Please go the highlights, with 0.38 to play in Q1. RoB gets a good tap to Keays, quick-kick forward under pressure, McAdam strong mark and quick pass to Tex, goal. Top-4 teams need %-making wins built on that kind of footy.

Having said that, I do like the let's-scrap mentality which is a big part of Finals' footy once a team makes Top-4. Might be useful in 2024-5.
It also brings better teams back to the Crows now, prevents blow-out losses and creates honorable losses as in to Freo and Essendon. That might prevent Nicks from being sacked before his contract is up, but as Pies Coach McRae said after their close loss:
"22 honorable losses means you finish bottom".

What I've noticed with ROB's taps when he wins them is that he often taps it to the opposition. The reason we don't have the running players roving to ROB's taps is because we have had Sloane and Crouch in the middle who are flat footed and have no pace. Laird, Keays, Berry is much more dynamic and Laid and Keays are dominating the comp currently. There's no harm in giving ROB a rest if he has a niggle or out of form. If we don't give Strachan games he will leave. He may leave regardless but it will increase his value.

 

[Crow-eater]

VOTES PLAYER (CLUB)
10 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
4 Elliott Himmelberg (ADEL)
4 Trent Cotchin (RICH)
4 Tom Doedee (ADEL)
3 Ben Keays (ADEL)
2 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
2 Rory Laird (ADEL)
1 Shai Bolton (RICH)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

 

[BRL121]

VOTES PLAYER (CLUB)
10 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
4 Elliott Himmelberg (ADEL)
4 Trent Cotchin (RICH)
4 Tom Doedee (ADEL)
3 Ben Keays (ADEL)
2 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
2 Rory Laird (ADEL)
1 Shai Bolton (RICH)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

What's going on there? That was the worst game I've seen Bolton play: he was awful and got caught HTB all the time.

 

[Mutineer]

What's going on there? That was the worst game I've seen Bolton play: he was awful and got caught HTB all the time.

JFC Chayce absolutely blanketed Bolton on the day,surely that vote had to be Hardwick having a laugh.

 

[Pugsley]

He took the most important clunker of the match, and slotted the most important goal of the match in the third qtr when Richmond had a run on, and took a few more saving contested clunkers from then on. He was massive in the last half and the criticism of that is laughable.

I recall when he was lining up for that goal saying this could go anywhere. And when he slotted it eat humble pie Pugsley.

 

[footy4ever]

I recall when he was lining up for that goal saying this could go anywhere. And when he slotted it eat humble pie Pugsley.

I reckon everyone had their eyes covered

 

[GreyCrow]

VOTES PLAYER (CLUB)
10 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
4 Elliott Himmelberg (ADEL)
4 Trent Cotchin (RICH)
4 Tom Doedee (ADEL)
3 Ben Keays (ADEL)
2 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
2 Rory Laird (ADEL)
1 Shai Bolton (RICH)

Walker 5/5
Himmelberg 3/1
Cotchin 4 (Hardwick)
Doedee 4 (Nicks)
Smith 2
Laird 2
Bolton 1 (Hardwick)

 

[LeftyLuke]

He took the most important clunker of the match, and slotted the most important goal of the match in the third qtr when Richmond had a run on, and took a few more saving contested clunkers from then on. He was massive in the last half and the criticism of that is laughable.

Himmelberg would have marked and goaled if ROB didn't as they both went up for the same ball but ROB was slighly in front. ROB did finally take some marks in the 2nd half which he hasn't done for a while which was better. He also stupidly kicked backwards and nearly turned the ball over a couple of times late. I cringe when I see his kicking style. He will likely struggle against English who is the best Ruck in the league this year.

 

[FR0GGY]

JFC Chayce absolutely blanketed Bolton on the day,surely that vote had to be Hardwick having a laugh.

How much did Chayce actually play on him? Bolton had 26 CBA, did he roll forward after every centre bounce?

 

[ams4crows]

Kinda agree with this. There’s a lot of commitment to the club for not much back in return

Also alot of them are foundation members and getting quite old that won't be able to do for many more years

 

[ams4crows]

VOTES PLAYER (CLUB)
10 Taylor Walker (ADEL)
4 Elliott Himmelberg (ADEL)
4 Trent Cotchin (RICH)
4 Tom Doedee (ADEL)
3 Ben Keays (ADEL)
2 Brodie Smith (ADEL)
2 Rory Laird (ADEL)
1 Shai Bolton (RICH)

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

No way Nicks voted for Shai he wasn't damaging at all

 

[LeftyLuke]

No way Nicks voted for Shai he wasn't damaging at all

Dimma probably pumping up his contract.

 

[chrisso crow]

It all stemmed from our decision to get Sloane out of the midfield, and deprioritizing Crouch from the center

Midfield mix was a lot better

Didn't see any of the game as was camping, but this is what I wanted to hear!

Let's hope that this continues and isn't a once off. We simply have to start giving midfield minutes to our younger players.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

Well that was a very strong performance over 4 quarters, great to see us actually kicking out to a lead around 30 points too.

As for the rest?

The Good:

• Ball movement was better, pretty good balance of when to attack corridor or play it safer. Easy to overlook but when we move it like this we actually give our forwards a chance.
• That we played Sam Berry in the midfield properly, none of this pure forward pocket stuff all match. I don't care he was a bit rough in the first half (he seemed to pick up the pace a bit in the 2nd half) just very pleasing to see we gave him a proper look.
• Chayce Jones when he plays with this level of attack & physicality he looks a player that can really add something, we just need to see it week in week out.
• Himmelberg has had a great turn around of late, aided by Walker being back too I'm sure but regardless looks capable of being a handy 2nd big man. We probably all forget he's not played 50 games even yet so there's probably improvement to come yet.
• Tex continuing on from last years form alone can help us win some extra games than was looking likely weeks ago.
• McAdam I thought was quite handy, played with more urgency, a bit like Chayce. If we can see this intensity often he will add a lot to our forward line.
• Rachele maybe not as big as a couple other weeks but when the match needed to be iced he was right there. Some great ball use too, if only we had a couple more of him.
• Smith has been very good all year, some of his extra defensive efforts all year have saves us goals, great to see.

The Bad:
- Framptons fumbling was really bad, he positioned himself quite well and his ball use is still generally quite good but there's always something unfortunately. If he didn't have so many bad fumbles this could have actually been a very good match for him.

The Ugly:
- Sloane's ACL, that just sucks. Most of us have been frustrated with him in the mid field and we finally move him out and he shows he can still play a handy roll and then this happens. Wish him all the best with his recovery.

Overall one of the most pleasing matches we've seen in years imo. Amazing watching some of this board ride the highs and lows so hard, any loss the club is a disaster, after a match like this the same posters are on board that our rebuild is going well.

 

[Shaunbkk]

Yeah, even stranger. His positioning/anticipation/game sense are all elite. He's the Crows equivalent of The Jackal; a quiet, effective assassin who gets it done without fanfare. He was top-6 imo.

We're all watching the same game, the same players, the same everything, but the polar opposite opinions on the games of some players is odd/amusing, to say the least.
(Do I dare mention that 61/100 voters did not think Frampton played well?
Even more were unhappy with Mrouch and RoB, justifiably.)

Smith was excellent this week. Our WORST the week before. Needs to be more consistent for sure. Yo Yo man.

 

[Geoffa32]

Watching the replay last night Frampton was better than I thought live.

Agree on the fumble issues, but his defending was better than I thought live.


Pretty much everything else has been said, just love the high energy game plan. Coming back after being headed was a massive achievement as well.

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mutineer]

How much did Chayce actually play on him? Bolton had 26 CBA, did he roll forward after every centre bounce?

Bolton only got shifted after half time, without a doubt because Chayce had him easily covered up to that point.

Young Crows on the rise after hard-fought win over Tigers

Taylor Walker’s return to action at Adelaide Oval for the first time in nine months ended in triumph for both he and the Crows, who pieced together their finest performance of 2022 in securing the prized scalp of Richmond.

www.theage.com.au

​

Shai Bolton, surprisingly but unarguably, had his colours lowered by Chayce Jones in the first half but his third-quarter cameo turned the tide the Tigers’ way.

 

[FR0GGY]

Bolton only got shifted after half time, without a doubt because Chayce had him easily covered up to that point.

Young Crows on the rise after hard-fought win over Tigers

Taylor Walker’s return to action at Adelaide Oval for the first time in nine months ended in triumph for both he and the Crows, who pieced together their finest performance of 2022 in securing the prized scalp of Richmond.

www.theage.com.au

​

Shai Bolton, surprisingly but unarguably, had his colours lowered by Chayce Jones in the first half but his third-quarter cameo turned the tide the Tigers’ way.

I’ve seen bits of the first half and he was definitely starting in the middle.
26 CBA’s is just about every one there was.

 

[Cap]

So I read online that Richmond indigenous players refused to shake Walkera hand.

Haven't seen anything official, you'd think the usual silly fellows would have written an article or two about it

 

[cleanhands]

So I read online that Richmond indigenous players refused to shake Walkera hand.

Haven't seen anything official, you'd think the usual silly fellows would have written an article or two about it

Definitely the “ugly”

 

[WetCrow1991]

So I read online that Richmond indigenous players refused to shake Walkera hand.

Haven't seen anything official, you'd think the usual silly fellows would have written an article or two about it

It's ok, Walker probably prefers it that way.










jks

 

[cleanhands]

It's ok, Walker probably prefers it that way.










jks

Just Richmond being Richmond

 

[Sanders]

I’ve seen bits of the first half and he was definitely starting in the middle.
26 CBA’s is just about every one there was.

Exactly

 

[Carmo]

I mean this is awful. No mention of how we try to move the ball, how we setup, just cliches bolted together that don’t match what happens on the park.

Which is fine, but you present it like you think this is somehow revelatory insights into how we play.

Relax and don’t try to take yourself so seriously.

Aww honey, are you upset at me because I criticised you this morning??

Dont be upset dear, that's what you do to everyone.

At least Mutineer still likes your post, he's still your friend. The grouchy-old-retired-men-in-arms friend club. Who wouldn't want to be in such a club lol.

 

[Carmo]

It was interesting that you and Carmo (below) replied to the same post. Both made me think more about RoB:
--- RoB has played enough footy to know that Premierships are not built on a player or team having a shit first half.
--- if he found a way to change/improve his game after half-time, kudos to him. It's on me that I didn't notice it.
--- RoB's mark and goal in Q3 were good, too, but did you find yourself thinking "Oh jeez, he won't kick this" from 30m out? I did and I'd love to have more confidence in his kicking.
However, the comments below put an entirely different slant on what RoB does and might explain why he hasn't been dropped for Strachan, IF he's acting under Nicks' instruction.


Your thoughtful post made me think hard about my perspective on the whole ruckwork 'problem' (which is not a problem if it's a part of the game play as you suggest, but that's a big IF). This point especially:
"This is how it will be in finals. So its a template built for finals from day 1." is a bold statement.

Is Nicks astute enough to have planned the above, way back at the rebuild stage? ie "Let's do this now, so that in 4-5 years when we're playing Finals ....".
Sorry, but I doubt it.
I think the scrapping you discuss just makes best use of RoB's limitations and minimises the damage from CBs and stoppages. RoB sometimes gets a decent tap but many are sharked by or down the throat of oppo mids and away they go, because they set up outside better and our mids defend poorly.
That scrapping is also exaggerated because our mids often find themselves close together, all ball-hunting --- hence the panicked handballs in tight to a static teammate a metre away.

I think:
"You'll almost never see us tap to the mid running past for a clean free flowing exit. That's not our game...." is because RoB is not a very good tap ruckman and our mids set up badly in close. Please go the highlights, with 0.38 to play in Q1. RoB gets a good tap to Keays, quick-kick forward under pressure, McAdam strong mark and quick pass to Tex, goal. Top-4 teams need %-making wins built on that kind of footy.

Having said that, I do like the let's-scrap mentality which is a big part of Finals' footy once a team makes Top-4. Might be useful in 2024-5.
It also brings better teams back to the Crows now, prevents blow-out losses and creates honorable losses as in to Freo and Essendon. That might prevent Nicks from being sacked before his contract is up, but as Pies Coach McRae said after their close loss on the weekend:
"22 honorable losses means you finish bottom".

Have a look at Strachan in SANFL, see how often he'll do a big tap away, even when he's able to reach miles above a shorter opponent. I saw one big belt forward in the whole game against glenelg. Even clear taps he gets in SANFL we don't break away because often we are chasing wherever our opponents go, because we are practicing our AFL setup.

We've been this way for ages, as another poster mentioned above.

Jacobs was a good tapper, but even when he was dominant we still just put it down at our feet.

It is partly an accomodation of ROB's limitations and the limits of the slow mids we've had for years, but it is a pretty good bit of gameplan because there's no easy way to beat it. Only hard work and hard contests does it and I enjoy knowing that if we can get it on our terms every teams going to know that is grind it out to win, or lose, take your pick. Hopefully theyre demoralised before we even start.

I think we're building our side the opposite way to what youre suggesting. We're starting with getting our young players to do the harder stuff first, then when they've mastered that, then they might put on the taps to open space as a polish on top. It makes us look worse earlier on, and gets us some good draft picks, but it stands us in very good stead for later. Sometimes it does shit me tho, epecially with the young players and with how good we make oppo look when we dont get it right.