Analysis Hawks 2022 Hypothetical trades (read the pinned post)

[Strapping Young Lad]

Firstly, the "No Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

41

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

" Rule is back

 

[RobJD]

Unless the expectation was that those teams to fork out half of those players' salaries to let Collingwood 'take' them, it would seem Tom Mitchell is actually seen as about HALF as good as those players..

I wouldn't suggest that Mitchell is seen as half as good as the players I'd nominated - from a tactical perspective, he's clearly better than those players. What other in-side mid candidates like Fiorini have over Mitchell is a potential strategic up-side, they're all yet to reach their potential where Mitchell is on the slide. They'd all cost around the same, say $300k - $500k per year, and have potential for another 5 -7 years in the game. Mitchell is low risk, we'll get one, maybe two years service as a walk-up start into our side - the others have the greater potential for a higher reward through more years of service, e.g., like Will Brodi this year.

 

[Bugs1977]

A very strange move by Tigers to give 2 players that people wouldn't rate in the best 30-45 players in the league and give them such long contracts.

I think Dimma has lost his way.

I think ego has taken over his clear thinking.

Taranto is not a match winner.

It has Brad Hill written all over it.

Success is a powerful drug and as Hawthorn fans we are just starting to realise this now. Knowing when your time is over is hard to gauge and any club is well with in its rights to try and wring every last drop of success out of it until the inevitable rebuild becomes apparent. I don't think there is any handbook on when is the right time to blow it all up and start again but one thing I do know is that it's definitely easer to judge it after the fact.

 

[RobJD]

The league is so even I wouldn’t waste any opportunity for a flag. If you are in the 8 you aren’t that far away. I’d take Henry off your hands for Mitchell. Maybe some pick swapping. Negotiate wages etc. as you don’t have a second, the other option is to downgrade your first to our second.

I think most Pies fans are pretty realistic that we weren't that far off being outside the 8 this year, so we need to carefully manage our tactical and strategic recruitment. General consensus from the Pies board is that we'd like to keep Henry - he's got some deficiencies that are keeping him out of the side, but he's seen as a 10-year player. Not sure the Pies will want to substantially weaken our draft hand on a tactical trade. We've already got three third rounders and we may only take two - three players from the draft (ideally we'll package the 3rd rounders to move up the board). Any trade for Henry would need to be for a high draft pick - if we can't get Mitchell for unders then I'd suggest we'd look elsewhere, not because we don't see him as a good player - it's just that there's a lot of in-side mids out there and teams don't need many of them on their list.

 

[HairyO]

I don’t get all this ‘if I’m not your first choice why would I want you’ stuff.. It’s a competition and a business, if you can’t get your ‘plan A’ you go to ‘plan B’ if it still improves you. People are acting like going/coming to your second choice means you won’t try or be appreciated.

If we are the 2nd choice its probably on a shorter contract and they are counting down the days til they get to where they want.

 

[Brant]

I wouldn't suggest that Mitchell is seen as half as good as the players I'd nominated - from a tactical perspective, he's clearly better than those players. What other in-side mid candidates like Fiorini have over Mitchell is a potential strategic up-side, they're all yet to reach their potential where Mitchell is on the slide. They'd all cost around the same, say $300k - $500k per year, and have potential for another 5 -7 years in the game. Mitchell is low risk, we'll get one, maybe two years service as a walk-up start into our side - the others have the greater potential for a higher reward through more years of service, e.g., like Will Brodi this year.

Unfortunately for those players you mentioned (Dow, Fiorini etc.), they likely have reached their potential - they're just not very good. Tom isn't 'on the slide', he's being played out of position to give other guys exposure to the role. He's a far better asset than anyone else you have on the list to play that position or anyone else you could reasonably expect to acquire via trade.

(Collingwood 1st) for (Mitchell + HFC 2nd). Depending what your 1st ends up being, we could sweeten with $100k - $250k etc.

It's been discussed in here as though Henry may want out & that HFC may be interested (no idea if either are correct), but I'm sure something could be arranged including him (or Grundy), if both clubs were willing/wanting.

 

[Hawked Wings]

Ralph saying Gunner wants another week to make a call. Doesn't sound good to me.

Gone

 

[eldorado]

I don't know why Brisbane's finals have anything to do with it.

If he was a player playing finals, yes, absolutely, he would not say anything to disrupt their prep. But with the situation reversed, what is to be gained by waiting until Brisbane are out?

He need not even name the club, if he didn't want to...like Amon did at first.

"Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

has informed Hawthorn that he will take up his free agent rights to leave the club at the end of the 2022 period"

 

[I got the outside word]

If we are the 2nd choice its probably on a shorter contract and they are counting down the days til they get to where they want.

Or they like the Hawks and probably stay. Or we develop them right and probably get a bigger return.

I’m probably wrong in my thinking but have there been many players traded to Hawthorn that have wanted out later?
I’d back us to keep them.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

7 year contracts aren't coming to become less strange just because salary caps increase. There's no other sport in the world that has these sort of deals that are 100% guaranteed and with no risk of being moved on or traded against your will. Won't be long before the clubs find a way to fight back against any half decent player wanting more than half a decade guaranteed.

This. There are stupid long contracts in MLB but clubs have all rights, for the most part, to trade that player. NBA contracts don't exceed 5 years. There are a few silly NFL contracts but definitely 4-5 years is still seen as a long term deal.

7 year contracts are going to blow up in a club's face sooner rather than later.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Gunston leaving would hurt a lot less knowing we have Breust locked in for 2 years. Yes, yes - not the same type of forward - but Breust would offer the leadership to the younger forwards as required. If we lost both that would have been very bad.

 

[Big Hotdog]

I think most Pies fans are pretty realistic that we weren't that far off being outside the 8 this year, so we need to carefully manage our tactical and strategic recruitment. General consensus from the Pies board is that we'd like to keep Henry - he's got some deficiencies that are keeping him out of the side, but he's seen as a 10-year player. Not sure the Pies will want to substantially weaken our draft hand on a tactical trade. We've already got three third rounders and we may only take two - three players from the draft (ideally we'll package the 3rd rounders to move up the board). Any trade for Henry would need to be for a high draft pick - if we can't get Mitchell for unders then I'd suggest we'd look elsewhere, not because we don't see him as a good player - it's just that there's a lot of in-side mids out there and teams don't need many of them on their list.

Basically your shopping for a Great Wall at the Toyota dealer.
Tyre kicking is fun but if you want the landcruiser you are going to have break open the piggy bank.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

I don't know why Brisbane's finals have anything to do with it.

If he was a player playing finals, yes, absolutely, he would not say anything to disrupt their prep. But with the situation reversed, what is to be gained by waiting until Brisbane are out?

He need not even name the club, if he didn't want to...like Amon did at first.

"Jack Gunston has informed Hawthorn that he will take up his free agent rights to leave the club at the end of the 2022 period"

Brisbane still being in the finals has absolute no relevance to his decision.

 

[RobJD]

Unfortunately for those players you mentioned (Dow, Fiorini etc.), they likely have reached their potential - they're just not very good. Tom isn't 'on the slide', he's being played out of position to give other guys exposure to the role. He's a far better asset than anyone else you have on the list to play that position or anyone else you could reasonably expect to acquire via trade.

(Collingwood 1st) for (Mitchell + HFC 2nd). Depending what your 1st ends up being, we could sweeten with $100k - $250k etc.

It's been discussed in here as though Henry may want out & that HFC may be interested (no idea if either are correct), but I'm sure something could be arranged including him (or Grundy), if both clubs were willing/wanting.

Not sure the Pies would trade our first pick this year - there's talk that it's an even draft after the first one or two. Reckon the Pies will look to recruit a KP player or mid with our first (or both our firsts if we trade Grundy or Henry). Not sure that on balance he's "a far better asset" than other candidates, there's greater risk/reward with the others. Hopefully (from a Pies perspective), there won't be much difference between our first and your second pick, so that might be a chance.

 

[killerspud]

I agree they aren't top 45 currently, but I can absolutely see a world where both build into that top echelon over the next few years.

Both struggled to overcome some persistent injuries and certainly not their final forms just yet.

Richmond have a clear need for them, and a pretty decent medical team. They could genuinely be getting two future AA level players if not AA squad. But having said that, Rich don't necessarily need them to be any of that as they seem to value the team over the individual outside of Dusty.

Great pickups for mine.

Has a Prestia Caddy feel to it

 

[Rocket72]

In summary, Tom is worth at least a mid first round pick every day of the week, but for a range of reasons that is just not going to happen.

The late second round or later pick we are probably going to be offered surely won't be enticing enough, so he most likely stays.

 

[RobJD]

Basically your shopping for a Great Wall at the Toyota dealer.
Tyre kicking is fun but if you want the landcruiser you are going to have break open the piggy bank.

I've already got a Landcruiser (well, a Lexus LX). The Pies are just looking on the used car lot for something cheap - don't care if it's got high kilometres and an engine that's almost shot, just looking for something that will get us by until the new car that's on order arrives and the car in the work-shop is ready. What you've got has been on the lot for a long time, there's no shortage of them, it's surplus to your needs, has been neglected and used for spare parts and played out of position due to a newer car being available - that's not a strong bargaining position.

 

[KermitJagger]

Has a Prestia Caddy feel to it

Nankervis was arguably the most important pickup in that off season.

The difference between then and now for Richmond is that back then they had peak Dusty, peak Riewoldt, peak Rance, peak Grimes, Cotchin who had developed into a good leader and other important pieces. Just don't see those pieces around them this time.

 

[eldorado]

I've already got a Landcruiser (well, a Lexus LX). The Pies are just looking on the used car lot for something cheap - don't care if it's got high kilometres and an engine that's almost shot, just looking for something that will get us by until the new car that's on order arrives and the car in the work-shop is ready. What you've got has been on the lot for a long time, there's no shortage of them, it's surplus to your needs, has been neglected and used for spare parts and played out of position due to a newer car being available - that's not a strong bargaining position.

Fine, he's not what you're really after then...

Good luck with your search.

 

[Iceman!]

Gunston leaving would hurt a lot less knowing we have Breust locked in for 2 years. Yes, yes - not the same type of forward - but Breust would offer the leadership to the younger forwards as required. If we lost both that would have been very bad.

It would hurt a lot more knowing clubs were willing to trade for him over the past 2 years where we could have cashed in and now we will receive nothing for him.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Is anyone else surprised that we haven't been chasing more contested mids in this trade period?

It's such a glaring hole in our list profile and usually there are plenty of these types of players not getting a regular gig at their current club you can get on the cheap (think Jarrod Lyons going to Brisbane).

Especially if Mitchell goes we will be even weaker in the contested ball and we were already absolutely awful at it.

 

[RobJD]

Fine, he's not what you're really after then...

Good luck with your search.

Not suggesting that Mitchell isn't a good fit - he's a great fit for the Pie's immediate needs, but only at the right price. Will be interesting to see if this trade progresses.

 

[Brishawk]

Is anyone else surprised that we haven't been chasing more contested mids in this trade period?

It's such a glaring hole in our list profile and usually there are plenty of these types of players not getting a regular gig at their current club you can get on the cheap (think Jarrod Lyons going to Brisbane).

Especially if Mitchell goes we will be even weaker in the contested ball and we were already absolutely awful at it.

We might be bullish about developing contested mids from newc, Nash and Finn, complimented by ward, MacDonald and pick 6. We need development time but looks like we might be willing to take some short term pain in pursuit of developing from within.

 

[Iceman!]

Is anyone else surprised that we haven't been chasing more contested mids in this trade period?

It's such a glaring hole in our list profile and usually there are plenty of these types of players not getting a regular gig at their current club you can get on the cheap (think Jarrod Lyons going to Brisbane).

Especially if Mitchell goes we will be even weaker in the contested ball and we were already absolutely awful at it.

Nope we need to be giving younger mids more centre bounce time. Lyons is 30

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I've already got a Landcruiser (well, a Lexus LX). The Pies are just looking on the used car lot for something cheap - don't care if it's got high kilometres and an engine that's almost shot, just looking for something that will get us by until the new car that's on order arrives and the car in the work-shop is ready. What you've got has been on the lot for a long time, there's no shortage of them, it's surplus to your needs, has been neglected and used for spare parts and played out of position due to a newer car being available - that's not a strong bargaining position.

This....this isn't the trading post mate.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It would hurt a lot more knowing clubs were willing to trade for him over the past 2 years where we could have cashed in and now we will receive nothing for him.

He was injured the last two seasons predominantly - I don't think there were high offers coming in. I could be wrong, but I don't remember hearing Gunston trade talk - mainly Breust and also Wingard last season also.