Certified Legendary Thread Hawthorn 2017 1st Round Pick Watch

[gringo2011]

Still a lot to play out of course. But assuming hawks lose Lewis, I'm not sure how hawks can hope to have a better year than this one.

Mitchell and Jaeger strengthen their midfield going forward, but for 2017 alone without Mitchell and Lewis? Considering Jaeger is an unknown, it breaks even at absolute best for Hawthorn.

They were still reliant on their older blokes too in 2016. Guys like sicily popped up here and there but for the most part it was the usual guys dragging them across.

Hodge, Birchall, Burgoyne, Gibson, Puopolo, Rioli et al won't have be improving, as good as they are.

They still have a desperate need for key positions. No real key forward and relying on the smarts of Gunston, Breust and the other two for their goals.

Their rucks? None of them really grabbed the position and made it their own. And all season they were developing a few key backs but none really looked as competent as a few other young blokes in the comp. There's a reason they went after Carlisle.

So whilst I think Hawks have done well going into 2018 and the like, right now i cannot possibly see how this trade works out poorly for St Kilda.

Very very shrewd work from our guys

Edit: should add the teams around them are likely to improve as well. Swans dogs have young lists. Cats will be there or thereabouts again. Crows might be adding Gibbs. The juggernaut of GWS. I'm happier with this trade the more i think about it

Their mids ran the show. Hartung and Titch don't have the same impact as Lewis and Mitchell. Burgoyne and Hodge must be near a cliff edge, they are ready for zimmer frames. I reckon Cats could almost drop too, no Corey or Bartell, probably not going to have Caddy if the get Lids. Not going to be able to be up for ever.

 

[lethalsaints]

I think this will be one of the most important trades when we look back in 10 yrs time.
Smart move

 

[PetWussy]

We absolutely killed this trade!!
We virtually replaced our first round pick from this year for one next year (so we can have 2 when the free agents are much more lucrative = BIG PLAY).
We also pretty much get two second rounders back; at the expense of pick 68..
Keep in mind we had to give up two second rounders for Freeman and Steele in '16 + '17..
Basically for the saints it looks like this :
IN : Freeman, Steele
OUT : Pick 68
Albeit with a slight potential pick downgrade, I still wanna know how did Ameet pull this off?
Give the man a premiership already this is exactly what we needed !!

 

[karaoke]

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs .. Yours is the Earth and every thing that's in it.." - Rudyard Kipling

 

[By a Point]

love the way we can talk to talk o clubs and do deals. Not much happening over at Essendon. It seems no one can trust them. mmm

 

[hayes]

Just can't see us getting carried away with going after a big name that would require us giving up two first rounders or anything similar, just goes against the whole strategy. We're trying to build the list not just the best 22.

Go after a FA if they're available if not just keep building with young guys and use the extra money we've got to overpay one or two Lachie Weller types. Guys that fill a need but won't cost an arm and a leg to bring in. How many Victorian kids will be on the move this year with all the draft picks going to interstate clubs? Surely at least one will get home sick.

Have to admit I had some doubts about whether we'd ever get a premiership midfield. Steele, Stevens, two second rounders this year, two firsts next year, hopefully a FA with Freeman up and going to go with what we've already got, we're well on the way.

 

[JG22]

Mitchell out
Lewis out
O'Meara falls through

It couldn't happen could it?

 

[SaintLex]

Oh boy, Lewis set to go and you'd think Hawthorn would also give up a player in the deal for Jaeger. Shiels has been floated.

If Hawthorn fall out of the 8.....

 

[JG22]

Oh boy, Lewis set to go and you'd think Hawthorn would also give up a player in the deal for Jaeger. Shiels has been floated.

If Hawthorn fall out of the 8.....

They say they won't trade him and he's contracted.

But if he nominates and wants to move it will be interesting.
There not really supposed to stand in his way.

 

[CHBench]

Oh boy, Lewis set to go and you'd think Hawthorn would also give up a player in the deal for Jaeger. Shiels has been floated.

If Hawthorn fall out of the 8.....

...they'll fall hard.

Part of me is thinking the very worst case scenario happened with the Mitchell/Lewis approaches - Mitchell being a good guy and happy to leave, but Jordan blowing up and also leaving - and now they have no choice but to sell the farm to ensure they have O'Meara to save face.

Mitchell and Lewis gone, and that cloak of invisibility that got them over the line for the close wins is removed. What was it, 6 wins under a goal or something stupid? Turn around 3 of those results, and they are battling it out with the likes of North.

Roughhead is no certainty to return next year, even though he's been training and keeping fit, there's no way his treatment allows him to maintain the fitness levels of an elite athlete. So depending on the progression of his treatment, if he's in remission then there will be further time added on to that to get his body back up to AFL.

Tom Mitchell helps, but their engine room takes a serious beat with the loss of Hill and Hartung's run, and youth. Youth is huge, because they have none. If they get hit with a few injuries, their depth will see them crumble. McEvoy also is struggling big time.

It seems the only thing that could possibly keep Hawthorn afloat next year is Alistair Clarkson...

But then part of me thinks they can't not have something else cooking, because they are Hawthorn, and they are smooth operators in every facet of football. I would watch this space re: Rockliff. I reckon they'll slip Brisbane something, who are appearing increasingly keen to move him along. Rockliff and Mitchell in for Mitchell and Lewis looks much better, but again, they wouldn't want to be in a situation where their depth gets tested.

If we must move on a future first, I hope we back ourselves to finish higher than Hawthorn, which if we can avoid disaster, should happen with our ins.

And if a GC or GWS specifically wants the Hawthorn first because they can see the empire crumbling, I hope we're putting a premium on it.

 

[underthestars]

Hawks know what they're doing. All this talk of implosion is fueled by schadenfreud fantasy.
Win-win. Let's just be glad pick 10 was worth so much this year thanks to the O'Meara situation.

 

[Diehard Saint]

...they'll fall hard.

Mitchell and Lewis gone, and that cloak of invisibility that got them over the line for the close wins is removed. What was it, 6 wins under a goal or something stupid? Turn around 3 of those results, and they are battling it out with the likes of North.

Roughhead is no certainty to return next year, even though he's been training and keeping fit, there's no way his treatment allows him to maintain the fitness levels of an elite athlete. So depending on the progression of his treatment, if he's in remission then there will be further time added on to that to get his body back up to AFL.

Tom Mitchell helps, but their engine room takes a serious beat with the loss of Hill and Hartung's run, and youth. Youth is huge, because they have none. If they get hit with a few injuries, their depth will see them crumble. McEvoy also is struggling big time.

It seems the only thing that could possibly keep Hawthorn afloat next year is Alistair Clarkson...

But then part of me thinks they can't not have something else cooking, because they are Hawthorn, and they are smooth operators in every facet of football. I would watch this space re: Rockliff. I reckon they'll slip Brisbane something, who are appearing increasingly keen to move him along. Rockliff and Mitchell in for Mitchell and Lewis looks much better, but again, they wouldn't want to be in a situation where their depth gets tested.

If we must move on a future first, I hope we back ourselves to finish higher than Hawthorn, which if we can avoid disaster, should happen with our ins.

And if a GC or GWS specifically wants the Hawthorn first because they can see the empire crumbling, I hope we're putting a premium on it.

Well, I know the Hawks have been wizards of late, and I love Harry Potter as much as the next person but that's a bit too magical even for them surely?

Invincibility, maybe

( or maybe they used poly juice potion to turn themselves into the men in green, hence explaining all those close wins...)

Great post, though.

 

[SaintLex]

...they'll fall hard.

Part of me is thinking the very worst case scenario happened with the Mitchell/Lewis approaches - Mitchell being a good guy and happy to leave, but Jordan blowing up and also leaving - and now they have no choice but to sell the farm to ensure they have O'Meara to save face.

Mitchell and Lewis gone, and that cloak of invisibility that got them over the line for the close wins is removed. What was it, 6 wins under a goal or something stupid? Turn around 3 of those results, and they are battling it out with the likes of North.

Roughhead is no certainty to return next year, even though he's been training and keeping fit, there's no way his treatment allows him to maintain the fitness levels of an elite athlete. So depending on the progression of his treatment, if he's in remission then there will be further time added on to that to get his body back up to AFL.

Tom Mitchell helps, but their engine room takes a serious beat with the loss of Hill and Hartung's run, and youth. Youth is huge, because they have none. If they get hit with a few injuries, their depth will see them crumble. McEvoy also is struggling big time.

It seems the only thing that could possibly keep Hawthorn afloat next year is Alistair Clarkson...

But then part of me thinks they can't not have something else cooking, because they are Hawthorn, and they are smooth operators in every facet of football. I would watch this space re: Rockliff. I reckon they'll slip Brisbane something, who are appearing increasingly keen to move him along. Rockliff and Mitchell in for Mitchell and Lewis looks much better, but again, they wouldn't want to be in a situation where their depth gets tested.

If we must move on a future first, I hope we back ourselves to finish higher than Hawthorn, which if we can avoid disaster, should happen with our ins.

And if a GC or GWS specifically wants the Hawthorn first because they can see the empire crumbling, I hope we're putting a premium on it.

I forgot about Rocky, I think you're right. Still the jungle drums are beating...

 

[jbass002]

Hawks, for obvious 3-peat relatedness, remind me of the early 2000s Lions. In pursuit of the 4th, Brisbane garnered a greater percentage (~20%), and won through to a granny despite playing a prelim they earned at the MCG. Next year, after only losing Alastair Lynch, Shaun Hart and Craig McRae, they finished 11th. Whilst the 2015 Hawks have mitigated their losses a lot better than the Lions, it's not exactly a stretch to say that the 2004 Lions>2016 Hawks. They could really slide next year, and this trade could be one of the greatest robberies in AFL Trade history

 

[StCicatriz]

all you need is for hawthorn to drop a string of games and not look like troubling anyone for the flag and it will do funny things to the players minds. the realisation that the run is over will take a while for them to get over

 

[Sir Skid]

So where do the Hawks finish next year.
I'll reserve judgement until the lists are finalized but hopeful of it being outside of the 8 the way this is panning out so far.

 

[cooperrules]

big fish coming our way next year huuuuuuuuuuge trade.

 

[JG22]

big fish coming our way next year huuuuuuuuuuge trade.

Doubts on that
We'll get back in this years first round
Draft our own

 

[Plumber66]

In before we keep it and the board melts if Hawks start winning games lol.

 

[SaintLex]

In before we keep it and the board melts if Hawks start winning games lol.

Even if it ends up being pick 18, it still seems favourable.

 

[Plumber66]

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs .. Yours is the Earth and every thing that's in it.." - Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your first round picks when all about are losing theirs. Yours is the draft and all elite talent that's in it.

Plumber 66

 

[Moral Decay]

Been thinking about the Hawthorn problem for two years.

They were always going to hit the wall at some stage, at least they have been self honest enough to say that they believe that time is here and now. The problems they have in dealing with it is that the youth they have either drafted or traded in has been ordinary.
Their young mids Jed Anderson, Jono O'Rourke, Hallahan, Simpkin, Langford, Hill, Hartung as well as some of their talls O'Brien, Sicily. They have all at some point shown glimpses and some like Hill have played as regular first 22, but none have been good enough to force the veterans out, now maybe that's because the incumbents have been given a virtual guarantee of their place depending on fitness, regardless the junior players haven't come on.
Keiran Lovell may be the exception.

My question - was it poor drafting and trading or was it poor development?

As far as Hawthorn right now is concerned it doesn't matter, they are making the choices they need to create a midfield group they can build a new dynasty around. They have lost Fagan as a coach and will need to add development coaches and a review of coaching and drafting.

As far as St.Kilda is concerned, at this point, our trading and drafting, our talent recognition and development seem to be pretty good, another year will give us a better idea.

Do our kids continue to improve? If they do then take the two first round picks for 2017 to the draft and continue to develop, if the kid stall then go for the big trades.

 

[Plumber66]

Been thinking about the Hawthorn problem for two years.

They were always going to hit the wall at some stage, at least they have been self honest enough to say that they believe that time is here and now. The problems they have in dealing with it is that the youth they have either drafted or traded in has been ordinary.
Their young mids Jed Anderson, Jono O'Rourke, Hallahan, Simpkin, Langford, Hill, Hartung as well as some of their talls O'Brien, Sicily. They have all at some point shown glimpses and some like Hill have played as regular first 22, but none have been good enough to force the veterans out, now maybe that's because the incumbents have been given a virtual guarantee of their place depending on fitness, regardless the junior players haven't come on.
Keiran Lovell may be the exception.

My question - was it poor drafting and trading or was it poor development?

As far as Hawthorn right now is concerned it doesn't matter, they are making the choices they need to create a midfield group they can build a new dynasty around. They have lost Fagan as a coach and will need to add development coaches and a review of coaching and drafting.

As far as St.Kilda is concerned, at this point, our trading and drafting, our talent recognition and development seem to be pretty good, another year will give us a better idea.

Do our kids continue to improve? If they do then take the two first round picks for 2017 to the draft and continue to develop, if the kid stall then go for the big trades.

Hard to say because it's very hard breaking into a strong team like that. It could go either way. Given the opportunity the kids might just step up next year.

My guess is that they think they might have one more shot before they all retire.

Sure they might spend a couple of years mid table but I don't see that cliff. Their development is solid enough.

I'd back their judgement ahead of a footy forum. Jom is the key.

 

[DGontheQT]

As if we needed another reason to barrack against the Hawks next year.

Yes I barrack for whoever is playing Hawthorn and the Saints of course !

 

[Mav2Membrey]

Absolutely frothing this trade.
But watch how the media spin this if/when the JOM trade happens-
'Amazing trading by the Hawks, managing to give up just pick 10 for O'Meara.'
Nevermind B Hill, pick 36, having to push out B&F winner Sam Mitchell because of the salary cap.... and who knows what their 2017 1st will be. They obviously rate themselves too highly to think that that pick will be anything lower than 18.