Opinion Hawthorn - Clarkson - Fagan Racism Investigation

[Kane McGoodwin]

I can. Can't quite see what you are seeing though, but I've not caught up on a fair few pages/posts.

Ive seen a few people hypothesising on missing peices and of the process and motives, as well as one or two calling others racist if they don't instantly condemn the accused.

Cant say Ive seen anyone steadfastly claim the accused are innocent though. That again would be kinda stupid considering the facts that are at hand.

The point is no one can steadfastly claim anything at this stage!

Yet many have made their mind up before any proper investigation based more on their own personal beliefs/guesswork than actual facts... many who were saying earlier in the thread to wait until the facts came out... yet now they are talking like they know what happened.

No doubt things occurred, but we just don't really know yet to what extent.

But in the meanwhile, let's spend time assassinating the character an ex-partner of a player & her lawyers for kicks... yet she is only 1 of many involved in the original Hawks report. There is more than 1 person who felt aggrieved, so there are issues to work through... we just don't know the extent of them.

 

[Ramify]

The point is no one can steadfastly claim anything at this stage!

Yet many have made their mind up before any proper investigation based more on their own personal beliefs/guesswork than actual facts... many who were saying earlier in the thread to wait until the facts came out... yet now they are talking like they know what taking happened.

No doubt things occurred, but we just don't really know yet to what extent.

Nah, there is a difference in taking one version of events as gospel,and shooting the shit over possibilities Cluedo style.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Nah, there is a difference in taking one version of events as gospel,and shooting the s**t over possibilities Cluedo style.

No.one knows what has really occurred, yet many on here have already made their mind up... before the investigation has been occurred...

Their views are based on their personal beliefs not facts derived cleudo style...because we don't know the facts yet!

 

[footy4ever]

Does anyone know if Amy is the girlfriend of the player who is accusing Clarkson of telling them to abort their baby? You’d think she’d be hell bent on ‘testifying’ if so, AFL or independent investigation.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Does anyone know if Amy is the girlfriend of the player who is accusing Clarkson of telling them to abort their baby? You’d think she’d be hell bent on ‘testifying’ if so, AFL or independent investigation.

Yes, i believe she is the ex-partner who accused Clarkson of telling them to abort the baby & cut his contact off from her.

Appears she is keen to tell her story... just not to the AFL investigation for the reasons her lawyers stated.

 

[Ramify]

No.one knows what has really occurred, yet many on here have already made their mind up... before the investigation has been occurred...

Their views are based on their personal beliefs not facts derived cleudo style...because we don't know the facts yet!

I agree. Noone knows what occurred besides those involved and I've personally held that line from the get-go.

Everyone on here has a bias. That is undeniable.

You have to take into consideration that people are discussing quantifiable,observed actions and facts that have come to light since this story broke. I'm not seeing anyone pass judgement based on those facts. Speculating at best(and yes, I agree that those speculations are influenced by personal experience/beliefs etc), but its still not the same thing.

 

[Sanders]

Does anyone know if Amy is the girlfriend of the player who is accusing Clarkson of telling them to abort their baby? You’d think she’d be hell bent on ‘testifying’ if so, AFL or independent investigation.

She is his former partner, yes. And the player involved doesn’t seem to be the one making the claims (?)

 

[Ramify]

Does anyone know if Amy is the girlfriend of the player who is accusing Clarkson of telling them to abort their baby? You’d think she’d be hell bent on ‘testifying’ if so, AFL or independent investigation.

I'm sure someone upthread said she hadn't yet made any statement.
I'm confused over who "Amy" is, but that's probably on me.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I agree. Noone knows what occurred besides those involved and I've personally held that line from the get-go.

Everyone on here has a bias. That is undeniable.

You have to take into consideration that people are discussing quantifiable,observed actions and facts that have come to light since this story broke. I'm not seeing anyone pass judgement based on those facts. Speculating at best(and yes, I agree that those speculations are influenced by personal experience/beliefs etc), but its still not the same thing.

People are more than speculating... some have already made their mind up before any proper investigation.

This thread is evidence of this... & it's the usual crew.

 

[BRL121]

No.one knows what has really occurred, yet many on here have already made their mind up... before the investigation has been occurred...

Their views are based on their personal beliefs not facts derived cleudo style...because we don't know the facts yet!

Yes, we don't know the facts yet, simply one side's "truth". We are yet to hear Clarko's truth.
One can, however, read between Clarko's lines which implied a lack of context in the accusers' truths. It's pretty obvious that he was doing a bit of bullying for the good of the Club, but from the best of motives.

Despite Jenny, the real truth will be somewhere between the accusers' and Clarko's truths.

 

[Scorpus]

Does anyone know if Amy is the girlfriend of the player who is accusing Clarkson of telling them to abort their baby? You’d think she’d be hell bent on ‘testifying’ if so, AFL or independent investigation.

If the AFL was known to act fairly with investigations, I'm sure she would be more willing to testify

However the AFL has shown in the past that they aren't interested in a high quality investigation. There's no incentive to testify at a hearing engineered to get a desired outcome

 

[1970crow]

I'm sure someone upthread said she hadn't yet made any statement.
I'm confused over who "Amy" is, but that's probably on me.

It’s not Cyril’s missus I presume as I’m pretty sure they’re still together. Her accusations would be the most damaging if proven accurate from memory.

Edit - Amy’s that is, not Cyril’s missus.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

heck, some genius deduction there... tell us something we already knew!

 

[Ramify]

People are more than speculating... some have already made their mind up before any proper investigation.

This thread is evidence of this... & it's the usual crew.

If you say so.

I'm not going to go look for them.
I've wacked enough moles in this thread already.

Besides, I haven't really seen many of the perpetually outraged, conclusion jumping leftist loon squad that Im assuming you speak of when you say "usual crew" posting in this thread of late?

And mate, don't let Sanders bully you. You're a bigger man than that.

 

[Mutineer]

People are more than speculating... some have already made their mind up before any proper investigation.

This thread is evidence of this... & it's the usual crew.

Jenny won't like this.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Jenny won't like this.

In all seriousness no one on this board knows the extent of what occurred.

We know things happened, but we don't know what line was crossed... if any.

 

[1970crow]

In all seriousness no one on this board knows the extent of what occurred.

We know things happened, but we don't know what line was crossed... if any.

Or by how far if they did.

 

[Sanders]

If the AFL was known to act fairly with investigations, I'm sure she would be more willing to testify

However the AFL has shown in the past that they aren't interested in a high quality investigation. There's no incentive to testify at a hearing engineered to get a desired outcome

What do you think her motivation is?

 

[Scorpus]

What do you think her motivation is?

Based on her actions so far I'd say she still holds a grudge about what happened and wants to destroy Clarkson's reputation

 

[Sanders]

Based on her actions so far I'd say she still holds a grudge about what happened and wants to destroy Clarkson's reputation

That’s easy. All she needs to do is stand up and show that what she says is true.

If she can do that, job done.

I think she just wants cash. Which, as I’ve said before, is a reasonable enough thing to want.

 

[CH Jazz]

Player X really doesn’t want a kid, and frankly his misses (let’s call her Amy) is starting to get on his nerves. Player X gets creative, changes his number, tells Amy to abort, moves out and then tells Amy Clarko made him do it because deep down, he’s a bit of a coward and is afraid of confrontation.

Who the fucc knows what really happened, this will be he said she said at its finest. A quiet exchange of cash and clarko plonked down infront of a camera to apologise for ‘cultural insensivitives’ will be as far as it goes I reckon.

 

[Sanders]

Player X really doesn’t want a kid, and frankly his misses (let’s call her Amy) is starting to get on his nerves. Player X gets creative, changes his number, tells Amy to abort, moves out and then tells Amy Clarko made him do it because deep down, he’s a bit of a coward and is afraid of confrontation.

Who the fucc knows what really happened, this will be he said she said at its finest. A quiet exchange of cash and clarko plonked down infront of a camera to apologise for ‘cultural insensivitives’ will be as far as it goes I reckon.

There are certainly a range of outcomes that might arise

What we know for fact is that Amy wrote a pretty harrowing account of her experiences to Andrew Newbold, he was rightly horrified.

Subsequently Newbold spoke to Jason Burt, and potentially others, and came back saying he’s heard a lot more about it all, and is going to leave to it to the club Officers

This is unarguable fact, even if you live below ground it is indisputable.

What we can extrapolate from this is that there is a whole bunch more than we know about. Whether it is persuasive or not remains to be seen. But we know that Amy’s version of events is not unchallenged and it certainly isn’t complete

We can also wonder what it is Amy feels about the additional information, if anything, and whether she believes it won’t come out.

It’s pretty clear that there is more to know, and only bad faith actors would dispute this at that level

 

[1970crow]

That’s easy. All she needs to do is stand up and show that what she says is true.

If she can do that, job done.

I think she just wants cash. Which, as I’ve said before, is a reasonable enough thing to want.

I think first she probably just took the opportunity to unleash. Then she received advice that going public would be beneficial in terms of achieving either of the ends referred to. If she wanted money then she should have remained silent. And if she wanted retribution against coaches then she should have been aware that the AFL would need something more than a mere accusation. No matter how horrific the content.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yes, we don't know the facts yet, simply one side's "truth". We are yet to hear Clarko's truth.
One can, however, read between Clarko's lines which implied a lack of context in the accusers' truths. It's pretty obvious that he was doing a bit of bullying for the good of the Club, but from the best of motives.

Despite Jenny, the real truth will be somewhere between the accusers' and Clarko's truths.

Agree... but is bullying good for anyone?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Doesn't appear to be an unreasonable request of the AFL for the 4 families to participate in the review...

First Nations families tell the AFL ‘to take a good hard look at itself’ on how racism is handled

Some former First Nations players and their families will participate in the AFL’s Hawthorn investigation, but only if the AFL agrees to an independent review designed to improve the game’s handling of racism.

www.theage.com.au

AFL confirms ex-Hawks families have joined racism probe but ‘no separate agreements’ made

AFL confirms ex-Hawks families have joined racism probe but ‘no separate agreements’ made

www.foxsports.com.au