Play Nice Hawthorn culture and Fagan

[dlanod]

This is going to be a very touchy subject.

There will be a very broad range of opinions about the correct way to handle this.

I'll remind everyone to post respectfully at this time - sniping at each other is not going to help.

Any continued pointless back and forth will get a day or more to cool off. If you want to avoid this fate, let it go.

 

[3KZ is Football]

You can understand why I have him on ignore.

Me too.

 

[Saucery]

often people want to be treated equal until they are

There is a difference between equality and equity, this is the chasm which we stride as a society.

 

[Tom14]

would be interested to see if they treated all young players, the same because at the moment they are painting it as blatantly racist. When they were only talking to the indigenous players.

If they did it to any player is F***ing digraceful and unacceptable. Indigenous players are the ones who have spoken up because the external review was about Hawthorn's treatment of indigenous players.

It is specifically racist to treat indigenous players differently and try isolate them from their partners, and pressure them into not having children.

 

[lioninthesand]

I thought comparing this to the stolen generation on 360 was a bit much. Saying that I’m not an indigenous person and don’t claim to be very knowledgeable About this stuff.

I don’t think they meant to say ‘it’s as bad as’ - I think they inferred it has shades of.

I think when assessing the essence of the allegations, if true, it’s a solid comparison.

The notion of taking a young athlete, breaking trust in their family, breaking down their identity, isolating them, encouraging them to stop creating family bonds and having children - all under the guise of ‘we are winners, we know what’s best for you, we will protect you, we will make you successful’ sits right under the same umbrella with attitudes that allowed the SG to occur. The alleged actions, if true, would infact a modern footballing equivalent.

 

[pod17]

Clearly, there’s a lot of water to go under the bridge with this.

However, under Fagan’s coaching we’ve brought in a number of First Nations players from other clubs, whilst our academy product Coleman is thriving. Mitch seemed to have good rapport with Fagan until recently (though that doesn’t seem to be related). His wife is Aboriginal, and has been engaged by the Club to do our Doug Nicholls round jumper in previous years IIRC.

Indigenous players at AFL clubs are well connected with and to each other. Players talk and share experiences - think back to Matt Rendell and how that news came out. For many seasons we had very limited Indigenous representation on our list which, without looking in detail, I would say has markedly improved in recent years. This surely says something about the environment we have created. Could we improve it? I’m sure the answer is yes - but that would be true for any of the 18 clubs in the AFL/W.

The fact there has been nothing said previously about Fagan suggests to me that he may be collateral damage in all of this.

That said, the allegations are heinous and being a senior figure at the club during that time doesn’t reflect well on him - fairly or unfairly - by association.

 

[CarterS]

If they did it to any player is F***ing digraceful and unacceptable. Indigenous players are the ones who have spoken up because the external review was about Hawthorn's treatment of indigenous players.

It is specifically racist to treat indigenous players differently and try isolate them from their partners, and pressure them into not having children.

Stating the obvious there but yes I agree. In my post I was basically saying did they do the same to the non-indigenous young players I guess we will find out

 

[BangyBangy]

View attachment 1514658

For real?

That's a bit of a pot shot which I don't think is fair.

Just here waiting for more info before I go all guns in making assumptions.

 

[Saucery]

I don’t think they meant to say ‘it’s as bad as’ - I think they inferred it has shades of.

I think when assessing the essence of the allegations, if true, it’s a solid comparison.

The notion of taking a young athlete, breaking trust in their family, breaking down their identity, isolating them, encouraging them to stop creating family bonds and having children - all under the guise of ‘we are winners, we know what’s best for you, we will protect you, we will make you successful’ sit exactly under the same umbrella with attitudes that allowed the SG to occur. The alleged actions, if true, would infact a modern footballing equivalent.

Sad I can give this post only one like

Sounds pretty cultish when you put it that way, kudos.

 

[Saucery]

For real?

That's a bit of a pot shot which I don't think is fair.

Just here waiting for more info before I go all guns in making assumptions.

Just reading the tea leaves m8

 

[21George]

Really just can’t believe that Eddie Maguire is given a platform to comment on all of this: the AFL is screwed

 

[BangyBangy]

Just reading the tea leaves m8

I'm not sure what to respond with anymore lol. I hope you're right means Fagan is a racist, but I hope you're wrong, does that mean I'm a racist?

 

[Surly Boy]

 

[Brett C]

Me too.

 

[Brett C]

Yes 24 hours notice is reasonable for a story he will have spent weeks working on. In what world for journos live in to think that’s reasonable.

More faux outrage and the journo deserves the smear

 

[BangyBangy]

Thanks for posting this. I don't have a TV

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Yes 24 hours notice is reasonable for a story he will have spent weeks working on. In what world for journos live in to think that’s reasonable.

More faux outrage and the journo deserves the smear

Well this makes Fagan now either completely useless with electronic appliances or extremely guilty asf for not replying back to his email/voice message, regarding the allegations around him & Clarkson

Either way, this isn’t gonna be a pretty off-seasons for the AFL and the relevant clubs involved, that’s for sure

 

[CarterS]

Complaining about someone smearing his reputation…

 

[BangyBangy]

Yes 24 hours notice is reasonable for a story he will have spent weeks working on. In what world for journos live in to think that’s reasonable.

More faux outrage and the journo deserves the smear

Yeah agree. With such serious accusations to be tabled at you a few days wouldn't hurt. The way that tweet is worded it implies that 24 hours was given via e-mail, but was it also with the phone call, or was it a last minute phone call? That smells a bit for mine. Trying to catch someone on the hop when you've been planning this to the nth degree.

 

[Brett C]

Well this makes Fagan now either completely useless with electronic appliances or extremely guilty asf for not replying back to his email/voice message, regarding the allegations around him & Clarkson

Either way, this isn’t gonna be a pretty off-seasons for the AFL and the relevant clubs involved, that’s for sure

What is it with posters on here being so absolute.

Why does it make him completely useless or guilty?

Could it be he engaged the club/lawyers who said don’t respond given the lack of notice and I’ve no doubt vague allegations.

 

[Saucery]

I'm not sure what to respond with anymore lol. I hope you're right means Fagan is a racist, but I hope you're wrong, does that mean I'm a racist?

The truth is everyone is racist, but it's one thing to be it and another to act it.

Cognisant beings can overcome their natural urge to differentiate.

The ability to learn to accept the natural differences between peoples, those of non European backgrounds in this case.

Is what enriches and expands our societies and our institutions.

 

[lioninthesand]

And just on that. I watched AFL 360 and hated it.

Switched it off.

There was just an acceptance that the statements of the players was how everything transpired. Every now & then someone piped in the word 'if' or 'alleged', but not often. Maybe they have more info than what has gone to press so far, who knows. And if they do, then fair enough.

How do you take that all back if it turns out not to be the case?

At this point it’s the story of victims, that has been filtered through an ABC journalist and a review process. It is ok to talk about victims statements with the notion we believe them. That is what we are trying to encourage, that people come forward and arnt shut down or chased out of town. Nothing I heard on AFL360 was out of line. They said ‘allegations’ and ‘if’ but they also gave credence to the victims testimony, that’s life.

3 different footballers and their families have come together with similar, detailed stories, it’s discussion worthy because it appears to have substance. Hodge also spoke in direct terms about believing the victims experience.

Now - we still need to sort the detail and the most thorough external review in AFL history will give Fages his chance to speak, but in the mean time, it’s not as if there is going to be a total black out or embargo on the victims story until the white guys get 8 weeks to mount their case with high priced lawyers and get to run their personal account to counter theirs, that not how these things work.

If they are innocent they will be found to be so, if they are sorter innocent/sorter guilty they will be found to be so, if they are guilty, they will be found to be so.

In the mean time, like anyone in a position of power/public figure, embroiled in a scandal, they’ll have to just suck it up, they arnt the proposed victim here.

 

[BangyBangy]

Well this makes Fagan now either completely useless with electronic appliances or extremely guilty asf for not replying back to his email/voice message, regarding the allegations around him & Clarkson

Either way, this isn’t gonna be a pretty off-seasons for the AFL and the relevant clubs involved, that’s for sure

What is it with posters on here being so absolute.

Why does it make him completely useless or guilty?

Could it be he engaged the club/lawyers who said don’t respond given the lack of notice and I’ve no doubt vague allegations.

Were you busy today doing your job Brett C? I was.

If someone e-mailed me at 7am I wouldn't have looked at till 6pm.

A few people called me today, if their name wasn't on my phone as a contact they were ignored.

 

[mighty_lions]

Really just can’t believe that Eddie Maguire is given a platform to comment on all of this: the AFL is screwed

its his show produced by his own company

 

[BangyBangy]

The truth is everyone is racist, but it's one thing to be it and another to act it.

Cognisant beings can overcome their natural urge to differentiate.

The ability to learn to accept the natural differences between peoples, those of non European backgrounds in this case.

Is what enriches and expands our societies and our institutions.

Especially when they're driving

 

[Gadzorks]

I've wasted today reading excessively about this - here, North board (they are not coping well poor buggers- like us when we kept getting smacked by expansion clubs), Hawks board, some social media.

My overall impression Is that the vast majority of people are disgusted by the described behaviour. Even if they are saying they don't believe it happened, they are saying the behaviour would be wrong if it did happen.

That's gotta be a good thing right? A sign of changing attitudes. I hope.