NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed. Part 3

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

Process Plan - https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/do...erms-of-Reference-and-Process-Plan-FINAL-.pdf

AFL Ends Investigation - 'Imperfect resolution' as Hawks probe ends, no one charged

DO NOT QUOTE THREADS FROM OTHER BOARDS

 

[Verdun]

It is clear some on here are only here to have a crack and border on trolling. TBH it is quite chldish.

Best advice I was given at work (auditing community sector organisations) was to listen. Two ears one mouth, easy to say you know everything and deny others.

Only posters on here lecturing are the ones saying they know everything about our indigenous.

I know I don't.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Time for me to sit out of this thread for a bit. Didn't realise a plea of asking people to listen would create such a negative response. That combined with comments directed to me last night which resulted in a user being suspended made me realise it is time for a break. Not being oversensitive but just can't be bothered with the BS. Too old for that. Whilst we all haven't agreed, there have been some solid and respectful discussions. Thanks to those who were willing to listen and respond with their own viewpoint. There are no winners out of a situation like this. To the reasonable posters in here, this is the battle we have. An educated Aboriginal with an opinion can be very threatening to the small minority who have been left in their racist archaic world. I hope that I have at least provided a perspective on the issues many Aboriginal people face every day. The world is changing, there is hope, adults are challenging, kids are learning, their kids will know more and hopefully one day that horrendous gap will no longer exist. Until then I won't apologise that I will keep fighting and I will never stop fighting. Have a deadly night all. Most of you are a good mob.

You’ve done great things in this thread, mate.

 

[LunchboxLegend]

They didn’t reply to you or tag you, they just put into the world that they’d love for people to know, from their perspective and that if a cherished loved on, what life has been like for them and your response was a big old * you.

You could have just not replied, even a “appreciate the offer but I’m not a big fishing guy” but you chose violence and looked like a completely ignorant troll.

Don’t be shocked to sit here. Your choices got you here.

"chose violence"?

Strange choice of words.

 

[phantom13]

"chose violence"?

Strange choice of words.

Pretty common saying actually

Wake Up And Choose Violence

Wake Up and Choose Violence is a catchphrase used online to describe a person or animal who is particularly mean-spirited or chaotic, similar to I Think I

knowyourmeme.com

 

[sr36]

It is clear some on here are only here to have a crack and border on trolling. TBH it is quite chldish.

Best advice I was given at work (auditing community sector organisations) was to listen. Two ears one mouth, easy to say you know everything and deny others.

Only posters on here lecturing are the ones saying they know everything about our indigenous.

I know I don't.

It screams of cultural supremacy. Australia's most entrenched form of racism.

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Pretty common saying actually

Wake Up And Choose Violence

Wake Up and Choose Violence is a catchphrase used online to describe a person or animal who is particularly mean-spirited or chaotic, similar to I Think I

knowyourmeme.com

Words aren't violence.

They can lead to violence.
They can cause violence.
They can promote violence.

But they aren't violence.

 

[phantom13]

Words aren't violence.

They can lead to violence.
They can cause violence.
They can promote violence.

But they aren't violence.

Did you click the link mate? Its a saying... So hungry i could eat a horse doesnt mean youre literally going to eat a horse, wake up a choose violence doesnt mean youre literally going to commit violent acts.

"Wake Up and Choose Violence is a catchphrase used online to describe a person or animal who is particularly mean-spirited or chaotic, similar to I Think I Will Cause Problems On Purpose. It has been particularly used to comment upon social media threads where one user heavily roasts another, seemingly without provocation."

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Did you click the link mate? Its a saying... So hungry i could eat a horse doesnt mean youre literally going to eat a horse, wake up a choose violence doesnt mean youre literally going to commit violent acts.

"Wake Up and Choose Violence is a catchphrase used online to describe a person or animal who is particularly mean-spirited or chaotic, similar to I Think I Will Cause Problems On Purpose. It has been particularly used to comment upon social media threads where one user heavily roasts another, seemingly without provocation."

I don't click on links.

That's a dumb catchphrase.

 

[phantom13]

I don't click on links.

That's a dumb catchphrase.

Sure mate, ill pass on the feedback.

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Sure mate, ill pass on the feedback.

No need.
I'm sure whoever came up with it is well aware how dumb it is.

 

[tassietime]

I remember their comment. They said that Fagan should be stood down due to having a complaint against him made to the HRC. They made the comment on the possibility the allegations were true, since if there were a chance of them being true, you would not want let them continue at their job as to risk an unsafe workplace.

It was a reasonable comment. I would assume that if any type of understanding is made during mediation than Fagan would be free to return. There’s nothing wrong with taking caution like that with allegations.

Suggesting that Fagan should stand down infantilises the Indigenous players and officials at Brisbane. It presupposes they are too weak, or vulnerable, or immature, to make their own, informed assessments about a man they know very well. It would also cause irreparable harm to them, the broader club and their family/friends. It is disturbingly paternalistic.

 

[blackshadow]

Time for me to sit out of this thread for a bit. Didn't realise a plea of asking people to listen would create such a negative response. That combined with comments directed to me last night which resulted in a user being suspended made me realise it is time for a break. Not being oversensitive but just can't be bothered with the BS. Too old for that. Whilst we all haven't agreed, there have been some solid and respectful discussions. Thanks to those who were willing to listen and respond with their own viewpoint. There are no winners out of a situation like this. To the reasonable posters in here, this is the battle we have. An educated Aboriginal with an opinion can be very threatening to the small minority who have been left in their racist archaic world. I hope that I have at least provided a perspective on the issues many Aboriginal people face every day. The world is changing, there is hope, adults are challenging, kids are learning, their kids will know more and hopefully one day that horrendous gap will no longer exist. Until then I won't apologise that I will keep fighting and I will never stop fighting. Have a deadly night all. Most of you are a good mob.

I'm saddened that you feel the need to step away for a while.

I know we're often coming at things from different perspectives. I've certainly valued your input and perspective and hope that you will be back sooner rather than later.

 

[gordo2016]

Time for me to sit out of this thread for a bit. Didn't realise a plea of asking people to listen would create such a negative response. That combined with comments directed to me last night which resulted in a user being suspended made me realise it is time for a break. Not being oversensitive but just can't be bothered with the BS. Too old for that. Whilst we all haven't agreed, there have been some solid and respectful discussions. Thanks to those who were willing to listen and respond with their own viewpoint. There are no winners out of a situation like this. To the reasonable posters in here, this is the battle we have. An educated Aboriginal with an opinion can be very threatening to the small minority who have been left in their racist archaic world. I hope that I have at least provided a perspective on the issues many Aboriginal people face every day. The world is changing, there is hope, adults are challenging, kids are learning, their kids will know more and hopefully one day that horrendous gap will no longer exist. Until then I won't apologise that I will keep fighting and I will never stop fighting. Have a deadly night all. Most of you are a good mob.

Keep being you brother. You have been a breath of fresh air on here. The way you speak from the heart on such sensitive issues for you is uplifting.

 

[yodellinhank]

It is clear some on here are only here to have a crack and border on trolling. TBH it is quite chldish.

Best advice I was given at work (auditing community sector organisations) was to listen. Two ears one mouth, easy to say you know everything and deny others.

Only posters on here lecturing are the ones saying they know everything about our indigenous.

I know I don't.

Which is why I find the response from the 3 implicated in the report off the mark. I appreciate they don't want to admit any guilt to specific allegations (abortion etc), but the flat denial that some of their actions may have been culturally insensitive was just doubling down on cultural insensitivity.

 

[LunchboxLegend]

Which is why I find the response from the 3 implicated in the report off the mark. I appreciate they don't want to admit any guilt to specific allegations (abortion etc), but the flat denial that some of their actions may have been culturally insensitive was just doubling down on cultural insensitivity.

"You're being culturally insensitive, and if you deny it, thats being culturally insensitive".

 

[phantom13]

Suggesting that Fagan should stand down infantilises the Indigenous players and officials at Brisbane. It presupposes they are too weak, or vulnerable, or immature, to make their own, informed assessments about a man they know very well. It would also cause irreparable harm to them, the broader club and their family/friends. It is disturbingly paternalistic.

I dont know if i necessarily think Fagan should be stood down if he doesnt wish to but the suggestion that it should be a considered option isnt ridiculous.

Just about every report into racism in organisations in the last 20 odd years has found the reporting process and support there after to be sorely lacking and that obviously discourages players/employees to come forward so suggesting that independent consideration of administrative actions in a case as serious as this isnt paternalistic from my POV. Souths position on it comes from a different place (obviously) but its not purely a paternalistic viewpoint.

Jack De Bellin was stood down with pay (which is what was suggested here) during his rape trial (for which he was eventually acquitted) under the NRLs no fault stand down policy. Its similar (not the same) as this IMO.

 

[yodellinhank]

"You're being culturally insensitive, and if you deny it, thats being culturally insensitive".

More like
Person 1 "Your actions were offensive to me"
Person 2 "No they weren't".

 

[ferball]

Time for me to sit out of this thread for a bit. Didn't realise a plea of asking people to listen would create such a negative response. That combined with comments directed to me last night which resulted in a user being suspended made me realise it is time for a break. Not being oversensitive but just can't be bothered with the BS. Too old for that. Whilst we all haven't agreed, there have been some solid and respectful discussions. Thanks to those who were willing to listen and respond with their own viewpoint. There are no winners out of a situation like this. To the reasonable posters in here, this is the battle we have. An educated Aboriginal with an opinion can be very threatening to the small minority who have been left in their racist archaic world. I hope that I have at least provided a perspective on the issues many Aboriginal people face every day. The world is changing, there is hope, adults are challenging, kids are learning, their kids will know more and hopefully one day that horrendous gap will no longer exist. Until then I won't apologise that I will keep fighting and I will never stop fighting. Have a deadly night all. Most of you are a good mob.

Thanks for what you've said in here.

No journey worth taking is gonna be an easy walk all the way.

 

[Elixuh]

I dont know if i necessarily think Fagan should be stood down if he doesnt wish to but the suggestion that it should be a considered option isnt ridiculous.

Just about every report into racism in organisations in the last 20 odd years has found the reporting process and support there after to be sorely lacking and that obviously discourages players/employees to come forward so suggesting that independent consideration of administrative actions in a case as serious as this isnt paternalistic from my POV. Souths position on it comes from a different place (obviously) but its not purely a paternalistic viewpoint.

Jack De Bellin was stood down with pay (which is what was suggested here) during his rape trial (for which he was eventually acquitted) under the NRLs no fault stand down policy. Its similar (not the same) as this IMO.

I agree with the first paragraph but I don’t think a criminal rape trial with the potential for a custodial sentence is really an instructive comparison. Whether to stand down would be entirely case by case factoring in a range of variables unique to the circumstances.

 

[phantom13]

I agree with the first paragraph but I don’t think a criminal rape trial with the potential for a custodial sentence is really an instructive comparison. Whether to stand down would be entirely case by case factoring in a range of variables unique to the circumstances.

Of course, im not suggesting they are the same just noting that the concept of no fault stand downs isnt that far fetched, also noting that in the De Bellin case he was eventually found not guilty which may happen here, and returned to playing.

 

[Elixuh]

Which is why I find the response from the 3 implicated in the report off the mark. I appreciate they don't want to admit any guilt to specific allegations (abortion etc), but the flat denial that some of their actions may have been culturally insensitive was just doubling down on cultural insensitivity.

Content of the letter from fagan and the complainants is just posturing. People will draw conclusions from the content of the letters but they aren’t really helpful in regards to what is actually going on in this matter. They just reflect the strongest position of both parties.
We don’t even have an agreed set of facts (it seems like a lot of that is in contention) or which of the accused were involved in what. So it’s hard to draw any conclusions atm imo.

 

[Elixuh]

Of course, im not suggesting they are the same just noting that the concept of no fault stand downs isnt that far fetched, also noting that in the De Bellin case he was eventually found not guilty which may happen here, and returned to playing.

In regards to fagan, I trust brjsbane and the AFL will do the right thing based on the information they are privy to. To not do that would be a huge organisational risk.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

More like
Person 1 "Your actions were offensive to me"
Person 2 "No they weren't".

Dare I say it, it’s gaslighting.
Particularly when Burt releases a statement saying that he has nothing to apologise for and that all players left Hawthorn as better people.

Last time I mentioned that I got attacked for not knowing what it means, despite it being that exact thing.


“gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions

 

[sr36]

Dare I say it, it’s gaslighting.
Particularly when Burt releases a statement saying that he has nothing to apologise for and that all players left Hawthorn as better people.

Last time I mentioned that I got attacked for not knowing what it means, despite it being that exact thing.


“gaslighting” to refer to a specific type of manipulation where the manipulator is trying to get someone else (or a group of people) to question their own reality, memory or perceptions

You're turning it into a completely meaningless term divorced from it's origins. Under your categorisation, any disagreement is gaslighting. We're currently gaslighting each other's truth and perception about what constitutes gaslighting.

 

[Elixuh]

You're turning it into a completely meaningless term divorced from it's origins. Under your categorisation, any disagreement is gaslighting. We're currently gaslighting each other's truth and perception about what constitutes gaslighting.

It’s clear he doesn’t understand the use and meaning of words in context. He also doesn’t want to engage in conversation about it. He just wants to say anyone disagreeing with him is ‘attacking’ him, by his own words.

I wouldn’t waste my time lol.