Pick 1 and 3 you must be on drugs
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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
If Carlton Won't Deal Seriously, What Is The Best Option For You To Take?
- Thread starter Breakthelines
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Pick 1 and 3 you must be on drugs
Its way way way under market value. But yes it would be deemed acceptable compared to other deals that have been floating around.
Ted38
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It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Carlton could get Judd in the PSD for zilch. I dont see Richmond as any sort of threat to that happening, that crap I read somewhere that was attributed to that bullshit artist Miller is meaningless.
- Thread starter
- #30
I think that the Tigers are a massive chance...
They have a higher pick..if Carlton's #1 is off the table.
They also have #1 PSD pick and the money to get Judd.
Pick #2, #19 & Mark Coughlan >>> Pick #3, #20 & Kennedy.
That's if they won't deal number one.
They have a higher pick..if Carlton's #1 is off the table.
They also have #1 PSD pick and the money to get Judd.
Pick #2, #19 & Mark Coughlan >>> Pick #3, #20 & Kennedy.
That's if they won't deal number one.
Chris judd is a star BUT the eagles have 2 choices:
- accept pick 3 and whatever Carlton want to give him
or - get nothing and let him go to the PSD.
Judd won't go to Collingwood after what Fat Eddie said and the Tigers won't give the Eagles pick 2 cos they know if he doesn't go to the Blues they can get him for nothing.
The Eagles can play hardball only until 2pm Friday.
- accept pick 3 and whatever Carlton want to give him
or - get nothing and let him go to the PSD.
Judd won't go to Collingwood after what Fat Eddie said and the Tigers won't give the Eagles pick 2 cos they know if he doesn't go to the Blues they can get him for nothing.
The Eagles can play hardball only until 2pm Friday.
NathanAtDaBlues
Debutant
I personally want to see a good business outcome for both Carlton and WC. Obviously the Blues want Juddy, and Juddy wants to come to the Blues. So, a good business decision from a WC point of view is to thank Juddy for his services and try and get him to where he wants to be.
But!! If the Blues are offering a deal that does NOT at least match or better what other clubs can offer WC, then by all means thats unfair and not a good deal. In this situation WC have every right to go for the better deal.
However, I honestly believe (even though I have blue blood flowing through my veins) that the Blues have put the best offer on the table so far to show they are fair dinkum about 'doing the deal'.
IMO Judd is worth picks 1, 2 and 3. But the reality is NOBODY can really pull off such a deal. If they did they would be mortgaging a lot of players to get one! As much as it hurts, you were never going to get a fair return on Judd. It sucks big time, but it's got nothing to do with Carlton being scums and not paying up. Its just a reality.
In the business of 'doing the deal', I think Carlton MUST offer the best deal of any club. Its almost like an auction - you sell to the highest bidder, at the highest bid amount (not what the bidder COULD HAVE bidded too). So while Judd may be worth #1, #3, #20 + players or whatever else you think sounds fair, we must all remember that its about business and not fairness. And in business you must accept the best offer (regardless of how fair it may seem).
For example, lets assume you had a rare painting that was up for auction and you knew you had somebody (Mr X) who could pay $10m for it, which was what its value was estimated at. But at auction bidding stopped at $8m with Mr X being the winning bidder. What do you think Mr X would say if the auctioneer said "Mr X, although you were the highest bidder at $8m, I know you know this painting is worth $10m and that you can afford that. How about you just pay the extra $2m to make things fair"? I know what I would say to the auctioneer.
The way I see it, unless Richmond come out with a super deal, then Carlton don't need to offer pick #1. While it sucks, in the big business of footy I don't think saying "throw in pick #1 to make things fair" is a realistic position. While Carlton are on the right side of the fence on this occasion, I believe things have a way of equaling each other out in the end.
But!! If the Blues are offering a deal that does NOT at least match or better what other clubs can offer WC, then by all means thats unfair and not a good deal. In this situation WC have every right to go for the better deal.
However, I honestly believe (even though I have blue blood flowing through my veins) that the Blues have put the best offer on the table so far to show they are fair dinkum about 'doing the deal'.
IMO Judd is worth picks 1, 2 and 3. But the reality is NOBODY can really pull off such a deal. If they did they would be mortgaging a lot of players to get one! As much as it hurts, you were never going to get a fair return on Judd. It sucks big time, but it's got nothing to do with Carlton being scums and not paying up. Its just a reality.
In the business of 'doing the deal', I think Carlton MUST offer the best deal of any club. Its almost like an auction - you sell to the highest bidder, at the highest bid amount (not what the bidder COULD HAVE bidded too). So while Judd may be worth #1, #3, #20 + players or whatever else you think sounds fair, we must all remember that its about business and not fairness. And in business you must accept the best offer (regardless of how fair it may seem).
For example, lets assume you had a rare painting that was up for auction and you knew you had somebody (Mr X) who could pay $10m for it, which was what its value was estimated at. But at auction bidding stopped at $8m with Mr X being the winning bidder. What do you think Mr X would say if the auctioneer said "Mr X, although you were the highest bidder at $8m, I know you know this painting is worth $10m and that you can afford that. How about you just pay the extra $2m to make things fair"? I know what I would say to the auctioneer.
The way I see it, unless Richmond come out with a super deal, then Carlton don't need to offer pick #1. While it sucks, in the big business of footy I don't think saying "throw in pick #1 to make things fair" is a realistic position. While Carlton are on the right side of the fence on this occasion, I believe things have a way of equaling each other out in the end.
everyone's playing chicken right now. this fast will sort itself out in the end.
if Carlton pull a sneaky and do a deal with Richmond then they will lose all credibility within the clubs........sure they may end up getting Juddas for less than 1+3 but they lose all respect and that you cannot put a price on
a win/win is best for all involved but what constitutes a win can sometimes depend on which side of the fence one sits
wake me up when its all settled!!!!!!!!!!
if Carlton pull a sneaky and do a deal with Richmond then they will lose all credibility within the clubs........sure they may end up getting Juddas for less than 1+3 but they lose all respect and that you cannot put a price on
a win/win is best for all involved but what constitutes a win can sometimes depend on which side of the fence one sits
wake me up when its all settled!!!!!!!!!!
- Moderator
- #35
This may be hard to believe, but Carlton are not trying to screw WC around (Despite all the dick waving going on between repective supporters on BF).
Ratts and Woosha (from all accounts) get on well. Worsfold was held at very high regard at Carlton before moving home to coach the Eagles, I can assure you. We have a (reasonably) good relationship between the clubs. We both have a large support group, a history of success and both sides share an arrogance and pride that serves to shit everyone else around us to tears.
Lets not let our mutual arrogance f@#$ up this deal.
Everyone is well aware that Judd is a bona fide superstar with a capitol 'S'. I live in sunny Perth, WCE are my favorite WA team even though Ive copped a lot of shit from supporters (and, sadly, rightly so - CFC have been embarrassing in recent times), and Ive seen as much of him as any WCE fan. Brownlow, Norm smith, B & F - not to mention his value in off field marketing and membership. In normal circumstances, no sane club would consider trading him - ever. However, these are not normal circumstances. He has left to go home. Now the question isn't "How much is he worth?" - it's "What value can West Coast get for him?"
Im not here to restate the obvious. Make no mistake Carlton are wrapped to be chosen by such a gun player. Under any other circumstances, we would happily give you Picks #1 + #3. However there is one small sticking point.
From all accounts we want Kruezer. You have no idea how much we need a ruckman. We (stupidly) picked up that hack Ackland in the PSD and he has been nothing but a useless pile of donkey penis for us ever since. A midfield of Murphy, Judd, Gibbs, Stevens, Carrazo is no good to anyone without a quality ruckman. We need pick #1 to get him. He will not slip past the Tigers at #2.
You guys have Cox. A genuine gun. You have Glass down back. If Lynch can figure out how to hold a mark, and with hunter popping up to win games when needed, your forward structure aint looking too bad. Your midfield is awesome with Priddis, Cuz and Kerr. Subiaco is a fortress. You will remain a force for years to come.
Unfortunately, Judd is gone. Cousins is 28 and has the threat of suspension hanging over his head if he messes up again. You must be looking at a speedy midfielder/ rebounding back to fill in for Judd/ Chick/ Wirra (and to replace Cousins just in case or to prepare for when he retires in a few years time).
From all accounts you guys dont need another ruckman in Kruezer. You are looking for another gun pacy midfielder type. Cotchin if rumours are true.
Here is the problem:
We give up #1 - You take Cotchin (or Morton/ Masten/ Palmer). Terry "I live in a solarium" Wallace takes Kruezer at #2. Carlton miss out.
There is only one good ruckman in the top ten draftee's this year. There are at least 4 gun young mids (Cotchin, Masten, Morton, Palmer). IMHO Carlton will be trying to do whatever it takes to gain the services of Kruezer and Judd. We couldnt care less if you got picks 1, 2, 3, 7, 20 etc. Hell, you deserve them. We just want Kruezer. Rather than working against us, WCE should be working with us.
Hopefully a deal can be worked out where we give you (for example):
Picks #3 + #5 = 2 exellent young mids for WCE.
Or
Find a way to upgrade #3 to #2 with the Tiges. (ie trade #3 and a player to Richmond for #2). Give you #1 + #20 + Player (Kennedy or Bower). WC select Cotchin at #1, CFC select Kruezer at #2.
Even though we dont want to screw you over, no matter what, i can assure you WCE wont get #1 and #3. Its a buyers market im afraid.
The injection of early high draft picks could be a blessing in disguise. You can start to inject some quality youth now without having to go through the pain of bottoming out and rebuilding. We at Carlton thought we were invincible once as well. Look were it got us.
That is all.
Ratts and Woosha (from all accounts) get on well. Worsfold was held at very high regard at Carlton before moving home to coach the Eagles, I can assure you. We have a (reasonably) good relationship between the clubs. We both have a large support group, a history of success and both sides share an arrogance and pride that serves to shit everyone else around us to tears.
Lets not let our mutual arrogance f@#$ up this deal.
Everyone is well aware that Judd is a bona fide superstar with a capitol 'S'. I live in sunny Perth, WCE are my favorite WA team even though Ive copped a lot of shit from supporters (and, sadly, rightly so - CFC have been embarrassing in recent times), and Ive seen as much of him as any WCE fan. Brownlow, Norm smith, B & F - not to mention his value in off field marketing and membership. In normal circumstances, no sane club would consider trading him - ever. However, these are not normal circumstances. He has left to go home. Now the question isn't "How much is he worth?" - it's "What value can West Coast get for him?"
Im not here to restate the obvious. Make no mistake Carlton are wrapped to be chosen by such a gun player. Under any other circumstances, we would happily give you Picks #1 + #3. However there is one small sticking point.
From all accounts we want Kruezer. You have no idea how much we need a ruckman. We (stupidly) picked up that hack Ackland in the PSD and he has been nothing but a useless pile of donkey penis for us ever since. A midfield of Murphy, Judd, Gibbs, Stevens, Carrazo is no good to anyone without a quality ruckman. We need pick #1 to get him. He will not slip past the Tigers at #2.
You guys have Cox. A genuine gun. You have Glass down back. If Lynch can figure out how to hold a mark, and with hunter popping up to win games when needed, your forward structure aint looking too bad. Your midfield is awesome with Priddis, Cuz and Kerr. Subiaco is a fortress. You will remain a force for years to come.
Unfortunately, Judd is gone. Cousins is 28 and has the threat of suspension hanging over his head if he messes up again. You must be looking at a speedy midfielder/ rebounding back to fill in for Judd/ Chick/ Wirra (and to replace Cousins just in case or to prepare for when he retires in a few years time).
From all accounts you guys dont need another ruckman in Kruezer. You are looking for another gun pacy midfielder type. Cotchin if rumours are true.
Here is the problem:
We give up #1 - You take Cotchin (or Morton/ Masten/ Palmer). Terry "I live in a solarium" Wallace takes Kruezer at #2. Carlton miss out.
There is only one good ruckman in the top ten draftee's this year. There are at least 4 gun young mids (Cotchin, Masten, Morton, Palmer). IMHO Carlton will be trying to do whatever it takes to gain the services of Kruezer and Judd. We couldnt care less if you got picks 1, 2, 3, 7, 20 etc. Hell, you deserve them. We just want Kruezer. Rather than working against us, WCE should be working with us.
Hopefully a deal can be worked out where we give you (for example):
Picks #3 + #5 = 2 exellent young mids for WCE.
Or
Find a way to upgrade #3 to #2 with the Tiges. (ie trade #3 and a player to Richmond for #2). Give you #1 + #20 + Player (Kennedy or Bower). WC select Cotchin at #1, CFC select Kruezer at #2.
Even though we dont want to screw you over, no matter what, i can assure you WCE wont get #1 and #3. Its a buyers market im afraid.
The injection of early high draft picks could be a blessing in disguise. You can start to inject some quality youth now without having to go through the pain of bottoming out and rebuilding. We at Carlton thought we were invincible once as well. Look were it got us.
That is all.
EscapeHere
Team Captain
Great post Malifice. Nice to see some clear thinking and rational points.
Big question is though... how would you upgrade pick 3 to pick 2 or acquire pick 2 from Richmond?
I would be happy with Pick 2 and another top 10 pick, but how do you get it? Walker + 3 -> Richo for Pick 2?
Big question is though... how would you upgrade pick 3 to pick 2 or acquire pick 2 from Richmond?
I would be happy with Pick 2 and another top 10 pick, but how do you get it? Walker + 3 -> Richo for Pick 2?
To Malifice – Respect, good post. West Coast don’t want to screw Carlton, they want to do the right thing by Judd and at the same time it is unreasonable to ask Carlton to give up both their first round picks in a draft like this given Judd's situation. A lot of people including myself have gone a bit stupid with emotion lately, I’m sure there is a reasonable trade that would make both clubs happy.
I don't see why Carlton are so excited about trying to get Kreuzer. Ok he's a brilliant long term prospect, however when was the last time a newly drafted Ruckman became an AFL gun. I bet Ackland will be better than Kreuzer in the short term. The only other ruckman I can think of is Leuenberger. And he's still the backup ruckman.
With your mids hitting their peaks within the next few years, IMO your better off going all out for a ready ruckman (hard to find, not impossible) or even picking one up in the PSD.
Oh and.. lynchy is a gun mark these days. Just can't kick for shit.
With your mids hitting their peaks within the next few years, IMO your better off going all out for a ready ruckman (hard to find, not impossible) or even picking one up in the PSD.
Oh and.. lynchy is a gun mark these days. Just can't kick for shit.
I have been reading these boards for a while now but have not posted before but with all the nonsense coming from the media and carlton fans i want to express and opinion on here for my fellow eagles fans. Isn't it funny with all the crap being spouted on here by carlton fans that we have to do this and we have to do that and we have no choice and blah blah blah. Otherwise Judd will leave for nothing blah blah blah. As if that tis much of threat - instead of getting next to nothing for him we will actually get nothing. Big deal. You always have a choice in life. Even with a loaded gun being pointed at you there is still a choice. I want to see the eagles play a hard core game of brinkmanship here and in the unlikely event that that meant PSD for Judd i would accept that. I wouldn't blame them. I would rather they took the risk and stared Judd and carlton down in search of a worthy trade than cower and cave in and give him away for peanuts. If what we get out of the deal doesn't increase our chances of another flag in the coming years then it really doesn't matter what we get.
Just becuase Judd uttered the words carlton and preferred in the same sentence doesn't mean we have to trade him to them. Like we are absolutely obligated and all we hope for is that they throw us a few copper coins afterwards as thank us for our efforts. The eagles hierarchy must and i think probably are behind closed doors making it clear to both carlton and Judd that as far as we are concerned this is still an auction process with multiple bidders and Judd will go to the highest bidder. If 2 or 3 or 4 clubs all make very similar offers then Judd can choose between them and he has already indicated that this choice would be the blues but before we even get to the stage of worrying about what Judd's personal preferences are carlton have to make an offer that is roughly equal to the next best offer from the other clubs. We are talking to carlton first out of courtesy to Judd but we are not obligated to deal with them. all they have gained in Judd nominating them is the right to have first crack at making us an offer and if the offer is good enough there will be no need for us to discuss things with the other clubs. A deal can be done nice and early and everyone go home and the other deals in trade week will have a chance to get done. But if they want to play silly buggers then let the auction begin. You wait and see how much the carlton hierarchy would panic if we got well into discussions with another club and did an in principle deal with them and then tries to sell it to Judd. Like say Gumbleton and pick 6 from Essendon. They would shit themselves if they looked like getting left out in the cold. Swann particularly sine he has been parading Judd around and gloating in the media like the cat that swallowed the canary. What a loss of face that would be for him. And his boss big Dick wouldn't be too impressed either.
And as for the crap from Swann about his "cunning plan" to get Judd in the pre-season draft ... why does he bother talking shit like that. The eagles adminstrators are not rookies, They have been around the traps for 20 years plus and have built the deepest and arguably best list in the comp even when we have only finished outside the final 8 twice in the past 19 years. He can't bluff Woodhouse and Nisbett and co. If he really does have a fool proof plan why bother offering us anything at all? If Judd goes to the pre-season draft he will be a tiger. No doubt about that. Does anybody in their right mind think that any club ever would pass up the opportunity to get the best player in the comp for nothing? How would Greg Miller, Wallace and the embattled board down there at Tigerland explain that to the punters? It would go down like a lead balloon. Board challenges would follow. Good old Caro would get stuck into them. respecially Miller. They would have 12 months to convince Judd to stay and more importantly even if he decides to leave they will be the one trading him next time next year and getting draft picks and players for a bloke they picked up for nothing. They won't care if he leaves. they will pick up 2 or 3 young players for him and move on. And as for the price tag plan for judd to price himself out, Rich would just have to renegotiate a few contarcts and backend them to make the room for one year for Judd which i am sure the senior players there would be prepared to do to help the club out as long as it doesn't cost them any money in the long run. Carlton have one shot and one shot only at getting Judd and that is to do a deal with the eagles right here and right now. If they keep wasting our time we should put the phone down on them and start ringing the other clubs and make them start sweating.
At the end of the day Carlton will have to trade either the number 1 pick or an established gun player that would walk into our best 15. It will have to be one or the other. And they only have a handful of players that fit that description. The rest of the package can be built around that but that must be the centrepiece. As for their proposed deal, pick 20 in a shallow draft is really just a raffle ticket. I'm not discounting the possibility of the eagles amking something good out of it as they have in the past as we have the best recruiting dept in the comp but on straight face value pick 20 isn't worth much. And as for Kennedy, he may turn out to be good player eventually but he, as do all KPP, require 2-3 years of investment and development and game time before he could be expected to start winning his position week in, week out and we are not in aposition to provide that to him. we have too many other good KPP in front of him in the que. So it would be unfare to even bring him to West Coast. He would probably leave in 2 years time for nothing in frustration from lack of opportunity. It has to be pick 3 plus either pick 1 or an established player either from carlt or from anothe club.
And another thing. We would want to watch that shifty prick Swann carefully. Lets not forget that he was intimately involved in those attempted dodgy deals that Collingwood have tried to do come trade week every year where they go fishing around in the something for nothing market that exists only in their wet dreams and results in massive waste of time for all involved. He brings absolutely no credibility to the table with him whatsoever as a trading partner.
My prediction - eagles will hold firm, make clear what needs to be made clear to carlton and Judd and carlton will eventually fold and cough up pick 1.
Just becuase Judd uttered the words carlton and preferred in the same sentence doesn't mean we have to trade him to them. Like we are absolutely obligated and all we hope for is that they throw us a few copper coins afterwards as thank us for our efforts. The eagles hierarchy must and i think probably are behind closed doors making it clear to both carlton and Judd that as far as we are concerned this is still an auction process with multiple bidders and Judd will go to the highest bidder. If 2 or 3 or 4 clubs all make very similar offers then Judd can choose between them and he has already indicated that this choice would be the blues but before we even get to the stage of worrying about what Judd's personal preferences are carlton have to make an offer that is roughly equal to the next best offer from the other clubs. We are talking to carlton first out of courtesy to Judd but we are not obligated to deal with them. all they have gained in Judd nominating them is the right to have first crack at making us an offer and if the offer is good enough there will be no need for us to discuss things with the other clubs. A deal can be done nice and early and everyone go home and the other deals in trade week will have a chance to get done. But if they want to play silly buggers then let the auction begin. You wait and see how much the carlton hierarchy would panic if we got well into discussions with another club and did an in principle deal with them and then tries to sell it to Judd. Like say Gumbleton and pick 6 from Essendon. They would shit themselves if they looked like getting left out in the cold. Swann particularly sine he has been parading Judd around and gloating in the media like the cat that swallowed the canary. What a loss of face that would be for him. And his boss big Dick wouldn't be too impressed either.
And as for the crap from Swann about his "cunning plan" to get Judd in the pre-season draft ... why does he bother talking shit like that. The eagles adminstrators are not rookies, They have been around the traps for 20 years plus and have built the deepest and arguably best list in the comp even when we have only finished outside the final 8 twice in the past 19 years. He can't bluff Woodhouse and Nisbett and co. If he really does have a fool proof plan why bother offering us anything at all? If Judd goes to the pre-season draft he will be a tiger. No doubt about that. Does anybody in their right mind think that any club ever would pass up the opportunity to get the best player in the comp for nothing? How would Greg Miller, Wallace and the embattled board down there at Tigerland explain that to the punters? It would go down like a lead balloon. Board challenges would follow. Good old Caro would get stuck into them. respecially Miller. They would have 12 months to convince Judd to stay and more importantly even if he decides to leave they will be the one trading him next time next year and getting draft picks and players for a bloke they picked up for nothing. They won't care if he leaves. they will pick up 2 or 3 young players for him and move on. And as for the price tag plan for judd to price himself out, Rich would just have to renegotiate a few contarcts and backend them to make the room for one year for Judd which i am sure the senior players there would be prepared to do to help the club out as long as it doesn't cost them any money in the long run. Carlton have one shot and one shot only at getting Judd and that is to do a deal with the eagles right here and right now. If they keep wasting our time we should put the phone down on them and start ringing the other clubs and make them start sweating.
At the end of the day Carlton will have to trade either the number 1 pick or an established gun player that would walk into our best 15. It will have to be one or the other. And they only have a handful of players that fit that description. The rest of the package can be built around that but that must be the centrepiece. As for their proposed deal, pick 20 in a shallow draft is really just a raffle ticket. I'm not discounting the possibility of the eagles amking something good out of it as they have in the past as we have the best recruiting dept in the comp but on straight face value pick 20 isn't worth much. And as for Kennedy, he may turn out to be good player eventually but he, as do all KPP, require 2-3 years of investment and development and game time before he could be expected to start winning his position week in, week out and we are not in aposition to provide that to him. we have too many other good KPP in front of him in the que. So it would be unfare to even bring him to West Coast. He would probably leave in 2 years time for nothing in frustration from lack of opportunity. It has to be pick 3 plus either pick 1 or an established player either from carlt or from anothe club.
And another thing. We would want to watch that shifty prick Swann carefully. Lets not forget that he was intimately involved in those attempted dodgy deals that Collingwood have tried to do come trade week every year where they go fishing around in the something for nothing market that exists only in their wet dreams and results in massive waste of time for all involved. He brings absolutely no credibility to the table with him whatsoever as a trading partner.
My prediction - eagles will hold firm, make clear what needs to be made clear to carlton and Judd and carlton will eventually fold and cough up pick 1.
CARLTON has masterminded a potential deal that could secure former West Coast captain Chris Judd.
The deal would work even if the Blues cannot strike a satisfactory trade deal with the Eagles.
The Australian yesterday learned of the plan to involve a third club -- Richmond -- which would provide win-win situations for both Carlton and the Tigers but would freeze out the Eagles, who could end up with nothing in compensation for losing their 2004 Brownlow medallist.
Carlton and West Coast were still in deadlock yesterday over a trade that would satisfy the Eagles and allow for a smooth transition for Judd to cross next week to Carlton, the club of his choice.
Should that stand-off continue, it is understood that the Blues will attempt to involve Richmond in a perfectly legal trade strategy, but one which could be perceived to be outside the spirit of the game.
The deal would involve Carlton swapping pick No3 for selection No18, Richmond's bonus second draft selection as a result of it finishing last this year with fewer than four wins.
The deal would probably also involve a fringe Richmond player being traded to the Blues.
In return, Richmond would bypass Judd in the pre-season draft in December where it has the first selection. The Blues would then be able to secure the Eagles premiership captain with the second pick.
That scenario would mean Carlton, in effect, gives up its second national draft selection for Judd and does not have to lose Josh Kennedy or its third selection (No20) to the Eagles.
"This is an absolute realistic proposition," a Carlton source said yesterday.
The benefit for Richmond if it agrees to the proposal is that the Tigers would end up with the second and third selections in the national draft and still retain their first pick of another uncontracted player in the pre-season draft.
While Richmond football director Greg Miller is not yet officially in the loop, the Carlton deal would have appeal as the Tigers are only a remote chance of either trading directly for Judd or getting him in the pre-season draft. The Tigers have not completely closed the door on Judd, but Miller last week told The Australian that he would be too expensive, even though Richmond has room in its salary cap.
Because Carlton has already reserved its priority draft pick for teenage Northern Knights ruckman Matthew Kreuzer, the Tigers, who are pinning their faith on a youth policy, would then have the choice of the next two best kids in the country.
Carlton's firm stance on retaining the No1 pick has created a verbal slanging match with the Eagles, and the war of words continued yesterday.
West Coast chief executive Trevor Nisbett threatened not to deal with the Blues.
"If they don't hand over the No1 selection, then he's not at Carlton, simple as that," Nisbett said. "That's the way it's been all the time.
"Hopefully (chief executive) Greg Swann and (general manager of football operations) Steven Icke can come to their senses, otherwise it is not going to happen. I find it staggering that Carlton doesn't think Chris Judd is worth the first pick in the draft."
The groundwork in attempting a satisfactory trade is being done by Icke and his West Coast counterpart Steve Woodhouse, who were both in Canberra yesterday at the draft camp.
Swann, who was told by club president Richard Pratt on Tuesday to follow the deal through after Judd picked the Blues, yesterday did not deny that Richmond could be involved in the Blues' bid to secure Judd.
"There's a lot of water to go under the bridge before we can say he's our player, but we're confident we can do the deal," Swann said on Tuesday.
Even before Carlton was nominated as Judd's top choice, the Blues took the initiative and offered the Eagles pick No3 and 20-year-old West Australian Kennedy, who has played 22 games in two years since he was the fourth player selected in the 2005 national draft. But it is understood that Kennedy is not keen to return to Perth.
While Carlton's proposal to involve Richmond will be scrutinised by the AFL, it does not break any league rules
Got this straight outta the newspaper Friday morning. More evidence the blues are sneaky dogs, and seeing as the eagles have a beef with the pies for allegedly doing this way back with gehrig, the eagles should IMHO seek a trade elsewhere so the blues and Judd get shafted
The deal would work even if the Blues cannot strike a satisfactory trade deal with the Eagles.
The Australian yesterday learned of the plan to involve a third club -- Richmond -- which would provide win-win situations for both Carlton and the Tigers but would freeze out the Eagles, who could end up with nothing in compensation for losing their 2004 Brownlow medallist.
Carlton and West Coast were still in deadlock yesterday over a trade that would satisfy the Eagles and allow for a smooth transition for Judd to cross next week to Carlton, the club of his choice.
Should that stand-off continue, it is understood that the Blues will attempt to involve Richmond in a perfectly legal trade strategy, but one which could be perceived to be outside the spirit of the game.
The deal would involve Carlton swapping pick No3 for selection No18, Richmond's bonus second draft selection as a result of it finishing last this year with fewer than four wins.
The deal would probably also involve a fringe Richmond player being traded to the Blues.
In return, Richmond would bypass Judd in the pre-season draft in December where it has the first selection. The Blues would then be able to secure the Eagles premiership captain with the second pick.
That scenario would mean Carlton, in effect, gives up its second national draft selection for Judd and does not have to lose Josh Kennedy or its third selection (No20) to the Eagles.
"This is an absolute realistic proposition," a Carlton source said yesterday.
The benefit for Richmond if it agrees to the proposal is that the Tigers would end up with the second and third selections in the national draft and still retain their first pick of another uncontracted player in the pre-season draft.
While Richmond football director Greg Miller is not yet officially in the loop, the Carlton deal would have appeal as the Tigers are only a remote chance of either trading directly for Judd or getting him in the pre-season draft. The Tigers have not completely closed the door on Judd, but Miller last week told The Australian that he would be too expensive, even though Richmond has room in its salary cap.
Because Carlton has already reserved its priority draft pick for teenage Northern Knights ruckman Matthew Kreuzer, the Tigers, who are pinning their faith on a youth policy, would then have the choice of the next two best kids in the country.
Carlton's firm stance on retaining the No1 pick has created a verbal slanging match with the Eagles, and the war of words continued yesterday.
West Coast chief executive Trevor Nisbett threatened not to deal with the Blues.
"If they don't hand over the No1 selection, then he's not at Carlton, simple as that," Nisbett said. "That's the way it's been all the time.
"Hopefully (chief executive) Greg Swann and (general manager of football operations) Steven Icke can come to their senses, otherwise it is not going to happen. I find it staggering that Carlton doesn't think Chris Judd is worth the first pick in the draft."
The groundwork in attempting a satisfactory trade is being done by Icke and his West Coast counterpart Steve Woodhouse, who were both in Canberra yesterday at the draft camp.
Swann, who was told by club president Richard Pratt on Tuesday to follow the deal through after Judd picked the Blues, yesterday did not deny that Richmond could be involved in the Blues' bid to secure Judd.
"There's a lot of water to go under the bridge before we can say he's our player, but we're confident we can do the deal," Swann said on Tuesday.
Even before Carlton was nominated as Judd's top choice, the Blues took the initiative and offered the Eagles pick No3 and 20-year-old West Australian Kennedy, who has played 22 games in two years since he was the fourth player selected in the 2005 national draft. But it is understood that Kennedy is not keen to return to Perth.
While Carlton's proposal to involve Richmond will be scrutinised by the AFL, it does not break any league rules
Got this straight outta the newspaper Friday morning. More evidence the blues are sneaky dogs, and seeing as the eagles have a beef with the pies for allegedly doing this way back with gehrig, the eagles should IMHO seek a trade elsewhere so the blues and Judd get shafted
Paddywhackers
Cancelled
Yes he can mate, yes he can. It looks as though if the blues don't give up pick 1, they don't get Judd.
Paddywhackers
Cancelled
I'd be much happier if Judd goes to Richmond.
Paddywhackers
Cancelled
I am absolutely shocked at the arrogance Carlton supporters have at having the highest draft picks something for which they get out of pity.
Interesting. And i suppose anything is possible in life but i would be very, very surprised if Swann was able to pull that off. There are a few notable points in the article. Firstly, Greg Miller and Richmond are not involved in this plan yet. It's still just Carlton's wet dream. That is major stumbling block. Not everybody is as dodgy as Swann and i doubt that the tigers would want to get involved in ths way. Very surprised. Miller is a highly respected administrator. Also i would be surprised if Judd sanctioned it either. In fact i am certain that he wouldn't want his name to be blackened by involvement in a scheme like this just to make Swann happy. It's bad enough to leave a club when you are the Captain and best player and that club is in the middle of a premiership window and they have given you everything you could possibly ask for as a player (i.e. great facilities and staff, a shitload of money, set him up with expierience in business world for life after football, the opportunity to lead the club to a premiership, good players around you, Norm Smith and Brownlow medals) and they have been good enough to accept your decision to leave without demonising you to the fans and have tried with sincerity to get you to the club you want to go to. Even Juddas isn't that low.
Also, and i don't think i am being wishful in saying this, but even if there are not explicit rules agianst this by the AFL they are unlikely to endorse and they do have the capacity to apply pressure to the clubs in the comp. I know a couple of clubs got away with this before but this was probably because nobody knew what they were doing untill the last minute and nobody had thought of it before. If Carlton really try and go down this pathway it will be obvious and the AFL will shoot them down. Whether it is explicity against the rules or not it is in reality draft tampering and will be seen to be this by the AFL also.
Ands lastly, if Richmond really do want to get involved in this they are still better off taking him themselves in the PSD, getting a year out of him and then on trading him to another victorian club. They will get a lot more than pick 3 in a shit draft out of it if they do that. In for a penny, in for a pound. If they are going to get involved to further their own self interest they might aswell go the whole way.
This is just propaganda from Swann that is designed to put pressure on the eagles. Not buying it. Surely Swann is the most treacherous, dishonest and thoroughly corrupt bastard to be involved the AFL since John Elliot in his hey day of salary cap cheating etc. I can see why he and Eddie got along so well. None of this should change our tactics. And i agree with Nisbett, how can a club commit itself to paying 25% of it's salary cap to one bloke for the next 5 years and then turn around and say that he's not worth the number 1 pick. It's not the only draft in history. There will be another one next year, and the year after. You are not losing all of your future draft picks for all of eternity. Carlton should get real and start talking turkey and Woodhouse and Nisbett should count the fingers on their hands after shaking hands with Swann to make sure he hasn't stolen any and have a dettol bath to kill the bacteria in the slime that oozes off that bloke. Some of the bacteria might have jumped across to them.
Also, and i don't think i am being wishful in saying this, but even if there are not explicit rules agianst this by the AFL they are unlikely to endorse and they do have the capacity to apply pressure to the clubs in the comp. I know a couple of clubs got away with this before but this was probably because nobody knew what they were doing untill the last minute and nobody had thought of it before. If Carlton really try and go down this pathway it will be obvious and the AFL will shoot them down. Whether it is explicity against the rules or not it is in reality draft tampering and will be seen to be this by the AFL also.
Ands lastly, if Richmond really do want to get involved in this they are still better off taking him themselves in the PSD, getting a year out of him and then on trading him to another victorian club. They will get a lot more than pick 3 in a shit draft out of it if they do that. In for a penny, in for a pound. If they are going to get involved to further their own self interest they might aswell go the whole way.
This is just propaganda from Swann that is designed to put pressure on the eagles. Not buying it. Surely Swann is the most treacherous, dishonest and thoroughly corrupt bastard to be involved the AFL since John Elliot in his hey day of salary cap cheating etc. I can see why he and Eddie got along so well. None of this should change our tactics. And i agree with Nisbett, how can a club commit itself to paying 25% of it's salary cap to one bloke for the next 5 years and then turn around and say that he's not worth the number 1 pick. It's not the only draft in history. There will be another one next year, and the year after. You are not losing all of your future draft picks for all of eternity. Carlton should get real and start talking turkey and Woodhouse and Nisbett should count the fingers on their hands after shaking hands with Swann to make sure he hasn't stolen any and have a dettol bath to kill the bacteria in the slime that oozes off that bloke. Some of the bacteria might have jumped across to them.
In an auction the seller is entitled to put a reserve on the goods - has the option not to sell.
A draftee ruckman who has an impact in year 1 (or 2 or3) - never happens
sydney eagle
Norm Smith Medallist
Picks 3 & 5 (if Carlton could secure pick 5) would be fair and reasonable for Judd I think. I can't think of any players that Carlton might want to give up that West Coast would want to take, so picks 3 & 5 is pretty reasonable .
If you don't deal fairly, you don't get Judd. Simple as that.
West Coast will be willing to place Judd in the PSD and walk away with nothing (other than our already strong list and current successes). Carlton will be left scratching their heads wondering why they failed to capitalise on the opportunity to obtain the services of the best player this century...all because they wanted a bargain.
Not true. Unfortunately the bank has for-closed and will take any price
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