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AFLW 2024 - Round 6 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
If Carlton Won't Deal Seriously, What Is The Best Option For You To Take?
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If West Coast are prepared to lose Chris Judd to the PSD, what relevance does this article have to their decision making?
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- #53
WCE arn't stupid...if you try and pull this on them they will deal with Collingwood...i think they would rather get something for him then get screwed by Carlton & Richmond doing a side deal to under cut them.
As he said...."it was a toss of a coin" between collingwood and Carlton.
The Eagles can't win : either Judd comes to the blues under market value or he goes to the tigers for nothing in the PSD. Why would the Tigers offer Pick 2 when they know they can get him for nothing?
That's why a deal will get done - the eagles will accept the blues best offer or they will lose Judd for nothing. Carlton will still be left with 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft.
That's why a deal will get done - the eagles will accept the blues best offer or they will lose Judd for nothing. Carlton will still be left with 2 of the top 3 picks in the draft.
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Because I am sick and tired of Carlton trying to rip us off.
Christ knows they ripped off the AFL when they cheated the salary cap.
- Thread starter
- #57
I understand that...but if we offer Pick #14, Reid or Brown Plus Rusling...they go with that.
- Banned
- #58
Fev is 100% not going anywhere and id say 99% pick 1 isn't either.
Seeing Chris go to richmond would be a disaster, at least carlton has a developing list who will eventualyl make an impact. pick 3 +20 +player seems reasonably fair and a better deal then any1 else can match besides the tigers as bias as it sounds. but be fair to chris, and help him get to the blues as that is his preferred destination and after everythign he has done for the club they owe eachother a little something. the reality is WCE are probably going 2 get screwed over either way, but if the can lighten the punch then why not?
Seeing Chris go to richmond would be a disaster, at least carlton has a developing list who will eventualyl make an impact. pick 3 +20 +player seems reasonably fair and a better deal then any1 else can match besides the tigers as bias as it sounds. but be fair to chris, and help him get to the blues as that is his preferred destination and after everythign he has done for the club they owe eachother a little something. the reality is WCE are probably going 2 get screwed over either way, but if the can lighten the punch then why not?
- Banned
- #59
If his knees are alright i mark my words Bulldogs will get him for a couple of seasons at Full Forward while they groom a kid to replace him.There isn't a spot for him while Fevola at Full Forward.
The #3 to #2 pick trade between Carlton and Richmond only works depending on Richmond's drafting targets this year. This scenario means they won't get Kreuzer (stated Carlton target with either #1 or #2), and they won't get Cotchin (likely WCE target with #1 or #2). If either of these players is important to Richmond's plans, then what's in it for them? Needs to be a hell of a sweetener from Carlton along with #3. However, if Richmond want Morton anyway, then this is a good deal for them, as he is likely to still be available with #3.
I think best case scenario for Richmond is Carlton giving them #3 for letting Judd slide in the PSD. Having #2 and #3 for not giving up anything is a great deal. They could net Cotchin and a Morton/Palmer/Masten. Horrible outcome for WCE though - hope it doesn't happen.
I think best case scenario for Richmond is Carlton giving them #3 for letting Judd slide in the PSD. Having #2 and #3 for not giving up anything is a great deal. They could net Cotchin and a Morton/Palmer/Masten. Horrible outcome for WCE though - hope it doesn't happen.
Why would Richmond do that?
They would basically be giving up Judd for Pick 3.
Add to that what is stopping them from taking Pick 3 and picking up Judd anyway?
They would get Judd, Cotchin and Morton/Palmer/Masten.
It's not like Richmond are particularly fond of Carlton.
Guess it depends whether Richmond actually want Judd – if they did, they would be better off putting Pick 2, 18 etc on the table and trumping Carlton. I guess this thought was around a case based on my unfounded assumptions where Richmond were being legit in saying they couldn’t afford him in the salary cap, and/or they had their knickers in a knot because Judd didn’t name them as a potential option.
In this case they would be technically getting Pick 3 and a sweetener from Carlton (likely a player) for not making a play for Judd, which was their intent anyway. I just figure the Pick 2 and 3 swap is Carlton’s best chance of getting Judd and keeping Pick 1 for Kreuzer (as it then ensures WCE get Cotchin, again - another gross, unfounded assumption that he would their target).
Nothing would be stopping Richmond taking Pick 3 from Carlton and then grabbing Judd anyway, but I don’t think any club would want to deal with them after that.
In this case they would be technically getting Pick 3 and a sweetener from Carlton (likely a player) for not making a play for Judd, which was their intent anyway. I just figure the Pick 2 and 3 swap is Carlton’s best chance of getting Judd and keeping Pick 1 for Kreuzer (as it then ensures WCE get Cotchin, again - another gross, unfounded assumption that he would their target).
Nothing would be stopping Richmond taking Pick 3 from Carlton and then grabbing Judd anyway, but I don’t think any club would want to deal with them after that.
Just read Digby Beacham article and i was worried for a minute ... and then i remembered that, hey, it is Beacham we are talking about. He is a useless footy journalist. He never knows anything and has never accurately predicted the outcome of anything. I really don't know what to make of things at this stage but one thing i do think is that the one ace the eagles have up their sleave is that the other clubs are still interested and will still bid for Judd even though he nominated carlton and not them.
It seems that Richmond are willing to deal and i have a feeling that essendon are still watching with interest from the sidelines and will, if the stalemate continues and they feel they have an offer that trumps carlton, step up and make an offer themselves shortly too if they think we will seriously entertain them. And they do have something to trade with.
Eagles need to facilitate this and not leave things untill the last moment to solicit better offers. They should ask carlton if 3 and 20 is their best offer (which they will say it is) then put the phone down on Swann, tell carlton they will take that under advisement and will not be talking to them again regarding the trade unless they want to increase that offer untill Tuesday/wednesday next week if at all and will be speaking to the other interested clubs in the meantime. Tell them we will come back to them if we can't get a better offer elsewhere and we will let them know, otherwise the negotiations are finished. And then seriously not take their calls and maybe plant stories in the media about ess offering gumbleton and us being keen etc.
It will send them mad if they have to sit on their hands and wait for us to get back to them and they don't know if we really are close to doing a deal with another club or if it is bullshit. We have to do something to get a paradigm shift hapenning here, knock carlton off balance and not let them be in a position to control the whole thing. If we keep playing bythe rules Judd and carlt have set we will get screwed. Why must we only speak to carlt? Why can't we shop Judd around and then we come back to him and tell him what the options are rather than letting him tell us who we can and can't deal with and nominating only one club which west coast asked him not to do.
I think the other clubs are prepared to make a private and confidential offer to the eagles on the condition that we don't discuss the players that are discussed in public and embarrass them in case the deal doesn't go through. We need to encourage this to happen and forget about carlton untill the end of the trade week if we haven't got a better offer in that time. It's the only way we will force a better offer from carlton. we must introduce the element of competition to this process.
It seems that Richmond are willing to deal and i have a feeling that essendon are still watching with interest from the sidelines and will, if the stalemate continues and they feel they have an offer that trumps carlton, step up and make an offer themselves shortly too if they think we will seriously entertain them. And they do have something to trade with.
Eagles need to facilitate this and not leave things untill the last moment to solicit better offers. They should ask carlton if 3 and 20 is their best offer (which they will say it is) then put the phone down on Swann, tell carlton they will take that under advisement and will not be talking to them again regarding the trade unless they want to increase that offer untill Tuesday/wednesday next week if at all and will be speaking to the other interested clubs in the meantime. Tell them we will come back to them if we can't get a better offer elsewhere and we will let them know, otherwise the negotiations are finished. And then seriously not take their calls and maybe plant stories in the media about ess offering gumbleton and us being keen etc.
It will send them mad if they have to sit on their hands and wait for us to get back to them and they don't know if we really are close to doing a deal with another club or if it is bullshit. We have to do something to get a paradigm shift hapenning here, knock carlton off balance and not let them be in a position to control the whole thing. If we keep playing bythe rules Judd and carlt have set we will get screwed. Why must we only speak to carlt? Why can't we shop Judd around and then we come back to him and tell him what the options are rather than letting him tell us who we can and can't deal with and nominating only one club which west coast asked him not to do.
I think the other clubs are prepared to make a private and confidential offer to the eagles on the condition that we don't discuss the players that are discussed in public and embarrass them in case the deal doesn't go through. We need to encourage this to happen and forget about carlton untill the end of the trade week if we haven't got a better offer in that time. It's the only way we will force a better offer from carlton. we must introduce the element of competition to this process.
Your blokes will do the deal because they know that Carlton is doing YOU a favour...
Trust me when i tell you we can get him through the PSD with or withut Richmond...
just watch your blokes do business.. probaby this weekend...
I dont have a record on Carlton thats just talk...
Trust me when i tell you we can get him through the PSD with or withut Richmond...
just watch your blokes do business.. probaby this weekend...
I dont have a record on Carlton thats just talk...
- Banned
- #65
If 3 & 20 & Kennedy are their top offer:
"Sorry Chris, we know your wish is to go to Carltn and we are happy to do a deal with them for you to go there, but I'm sure you understand that we can't let you go for that. It's way under market value. And don't get us wrong - we are resigned to the fact that we will have to accept less than market value but the offer Carltn have made is insulting.
At this stage we are happy for you to go in the PSD. You are welcome to choose another club for us to deal with. Your call."
Walk away and don't contact him and if he goes PSD accept it.
"Sorry Chris, we know your wish is to go to Carltn and we are happy to do a deal with them for you to go there, but I'm sure you understand that we can't let you go for that. It's way under market value. And don't get us wrong - we are resigned to the fact that we will have to accept less than market value but the offer Carltn have made is insulting.
At this stage we are happy for you to go in the PSD. You are welcome to choose another club for us to deal with. Your call."
Walk away and don't contact him and if he goes PSD accept it.
None of us are privy to club finances and we are all entitled to our opinions and judgements but i don't reckon you can get him in the PSD. Not unless Richmond walk past him voluntarily which they won't. If he's there Richmond will take him. He will pay for himself salary wise for a year with increased memberships and then Richmond can trade him themselves at the end of next year of he really wants to go and get a few extra draft picks and/or players for themselves. Something for nothing. Greg Swann's personal motto.
I could be missing something. But as i said, none of us would really know and probably Swann and Nisbett themselves may not really know the true lie of the land regarding other clubs positons and plans. But if i was negotiating i would call that bluff and take the chance. I don't think Carlton can get him in the PSD. They keep saying that over and over but they have yet to describe in detail how exactly this would happen and what they are basing their confidence on. And Richmond are talking about handing over pick 2 for him. why would they do that if they can't afford him? Unless carlton really can let the cat out of the bag and show us this "full proof plan" to get Judd in the pre-season draft they don't have anywhere near as much leverage as they think. Judd will have to accept Richmond or another third party club or get carlton to up it's offer.
Don't reckon a deal will get done untill mid next week at the earliest. West coast will want to thorougly examine all options with all interested parties before they look twice at carlton's lame offer.
I could be missing something. But as i said, none of us would really know and probably Swann and Nisbett themselves may not really know the true lie of the land regarding other clubs positons and plans. But if i was negotiating i would call that bluff and take the chance. I don't think Carlton can get him in the PSD. They keep saying that over and over but they have yet to describe in detail how exactly this would happen and what they are basing their confidence on. And Richmond are talking about handing over pick 2 for him. why would they do that if they can't afford him? Unless carlton really can let the cat out of the bag and show us this "full proof plan" to get Judd in the pre-season draft they don't have anywhere near as much leverage as they think. Judd will have to accept Richmond or another third party club or get carlton to up it's offer.
Don't reckon a deal will get done untill mid next week at the earliest. West coast will want to thorougly examine all options with all interested parties before they look twice at carlton's lame offer.
If you believe Beacham they are not even offering Kennedy anymore. It's just picks 3 and 20 now. 20 is worthless in a shallow draft so all we are risking is pick 3 which isn't going to make or break us. take the chance and try and take controll, i say. It needs to be us shopping him around and then telling him what the options are rather than him dictating one club to us. We warned him not to do that. All or nothing. Take no prisoners. Take the chance. Roll the dice. Make bold judgements. And be prepared to live with the consequences.
The admistrators at carlton are just as afraid of the PR disaster of being too smart by half and not getting him now after all their gloating and Judd is just as scared at prospect of going to club he doesn't want to go to as eagles are of missing out on pick 3. We can still take control of this. As it is in life, if you play by the rules set up by other people you will be their slave. we don't have to deal with carlton just cos Judd says so. 6 years service doesn't entitle him to dictate to us. Get hard core, show no fear, get on the blower to the other clubs and turn this thing into the auction it should always have been from day 1.
The admistrators at carlton are just as afraid of the PR disaster of being too smart by half and not getting him now after all their gloating and Judd is just as scared at prospect of going to club he doesn't want to go to as eagles are of missing out on pick 3. We can still take control of this. As it is in life, if you play by the rules set up by other people you will be their slave. we don't have to deal with carlton just cos Judd says so. 6 years service doesn't entitle him to dictate to us. Get hard core, show no fear, get on the blower to the other clubs and turn this thing into the auction it should always have been from day 1.
Unlike Richmond supporters who come here thnking they can influence you guys on this site to throw Judd their way... i know what i say here makes little difference on whats about to happen.
BUT.. bravado wont work.. youll have to settle... a deal will be done before Tuesday because yu blokes are smarter than that.
The truth is we want to make a deal instead of take him for nothing.. (which we can)..
Nisbett knows that and the chances are something will be nutted out over the weekend...
Most of whats been happening is for perception sake.. WC cant be seen to be handing over Judd... easily..
But trust me when i tell you blokes we hold ALL the aces....
But we still wish to compensate you without us going back ..
Unfortunately in AFL you cant pay a transfer fee and nobody wants to go backwards by paying a huge fee in players and draft picks which are gold for a team because the list is built with these.
If Judd was Braziian an dplaying for a club the fee would be a world record.
Unfortunately the system doesnt allow that to happen in the AFL..and youre never getting what hes worth... its the system.
I thought you guys didnt rate Josh... the problem with everyone thats young at the moment is nobodys parents want their kids coming to you.
I know JK's oldies are abit concerned.. an he is from WA...
How do you hold all the aces? Carlton and it's supporters keep saying this over and over but it's not so. Saying it 1000 times doesn't make it true. You must do a deal with us to get Judd. There is only one Judd and only one club trading him but there are multiple potential bidders and you won't get him in the PSD. You hold very few aces apart from the fact that Judd has nominated you which should and probably does mean didley squat to Nisbett and Woodhouse. They don't "have to" deal with you as carlton supporters keep saying. We do have choices and you are not the only club that wants him. Unless you can detail exactly how and why you are the only club who can get him in the PSD we won't take any of that seriously. If you are to get him i guaratntee you it will be for more than picks 3 and 20. And why would it be in the interests of Nisbett and the eagles to just accept this lame offer straight away and and sign him over this weekend? It is in their interests to keep it open for as long as possible in the hope that another bidder chips in or can be perusaded by the club to chip in. There is no advantage to the eagles to do a deal early unless the offer is a really good one and it might unravel and be withdrawn if we hesitate. If we wait we will get more offers. It's in your interests for us to sign him over now, not ours. No deal will get done this weekend.
And it wouldn't matter if there were suchthings as transfer fees. Your club is so broke it couldn't afford to pay one unless sugar daddy Dick reached into his own pocket. Your club is a pauper. We have 10 times as much money as you and if it was an open market like in soccer you would be priced out of the market by the bigger clubs like us and the crows.
We are not frightenned of losing pick 3. And we won't anyway. Judd will get traded somewhere and we will get something for him. we are in no hurry to deal him over. We don't have to deal with you. And as things stand it's in our interests to talk the other clubs and keep this open for as long as possible.
And another thing, that crap about young players parents being afraid of them coming to th eagles is an eastern states media beat up. Woodhouse was interviewed and he said only one or two of the 60 odd pkayers and their families that the eagles spoke to brought it up with him. Drafted players have to go where they are drafted whether they like it or not and very few that go to our club end up regretting and going home. Judd and gehrig are the only 2 we have ever lost. We have the best facilities, busiiness contacts that can set them up for life after footy in the business woo=rld and the best record in the comp for developing players. thats why we have the most depth on our list of any club in the comp. Kids drafted by us and with the investment and development that we put in to them and the winning culture at our club have the best chance of developing into AFL players out of all the players that get drafted. especially compared to the woeful development record of many Victorian teams, yours included.
We are not frightenned of losing pick 3. And we won't anyway. Judd will get traded somewhere and we will get something for him. we are in no hurry to deal him over. We don't have to deal with you. And as things stand it's in our interests to talk the other clubs and keep this open for as long as possible.
And another thing, that crap about young players parents being afraid of them coming to th eagles is an eastern states media beat up. Woodhouse was interviewed and he said only one or two of the 60 odd pkayers and their families that the eagles spoke to brought it up with him. Drafted players have to go where they are drafted whether they like it or not and very few that go to our club end up regretting and going home. Judd and gehrig are the only 2 we have ever lost. We have the best facilities, busiiness contacts that can set them up for life after footy in the business woo=rld and the best record in the comp for developing players. thats why we have the most depth on our list of any club in the comp. Kids drafted by us and with the investment and development that we put in to them and the winning culture at our club have the best chance of developing into AFL players out of all the players that get drafted. especially compared to the woeful development record of many Victorian teams, yours included.
But what you guys aren't getting is you can field as many offer as you want from other clubs, if Judd doesn't want to go to any other club than Carlton, you can't trade him. He then goes into the PSD where i imagine Richmond would take him. We would be left with picks 1 and 3, Richmond get Judd and West Coast get nothing for the best player in the comp.
Seems to me there would be 3 teams and only 2 winners.
We hold all the aces because Judd has quit your club and wont be coming back and will only go to Carlton....
Youre the ones that are holding a pair of twos...
Now if you want to check my mail go right ahead.. my track record is pretty good for all things regarding Carlton..
He will be at Carlton the deal will be done over this weekend most likely def before Tuesday...
You will not bend us over...and Richmond are not in the equation... if you choose to put him in the PSD...we will still get him...
Trust me when i say its ok for YOU to pretend machismo...(youre irresponsible and have no worth to the future of WC) but your club wont.. it will do the deal.. pretty much what has been discussed.. and thats doing you a favour...
And no were wealthy now...
No beat up about Kennedy... he will go if he has to but his parents have concerns....
and that is not a beatup...
Its the culture... you guys might not care.... because you have been succesful thusfar.. but things can change in a hurry..
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