Not odd if you pay attention. I was lamenting lack of consistency in opinion.
Toast Jamarra Ugle-Hagan - Welcome to the club
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- May 23, 2019
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It's not like Wallis has been kicking bags in the VFL demanding selection in the seniors and is being ignored for JUH. 4.6 in nine VFL games.
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Trying to get the thread back on topic.
I don't see Jamarra as a short term forward option. This is more to the balance of the side rather than his ability. His last 3 weeks have demonstrated his improved contested marking and no doubt the kid has talent.
But Sam Darcy in my view is the man to combine with 2 permanents in Naughton (long term) and Bruce (short term). Really we should be trying to replacate the early 2021 forward line (Naughton, Bruce, English) which is the best I've ever seen our forwards operate. Also I don't think Darcy has the mobility to play back and is ideally suited to the forward/ruck role long term.
I'd be very intrigued to try Jamarra as the third tall defender/primary interceptor (whilst Bruce remains) Probably his 2 weaknesses at the moment are his wavering intensity and getting bodied out of marking contests. Well the former was a long term criticism of Dale and the latter wouldn't be a problem when he can just run and jump from defence.
Naughton to defence is pointless. Whats the logic to replace an AA level (or close to) key forward for a AA level (or close to) Key defender. Many of the successful interceptors are failed forwards or late/rookie selections. Not to say Jamarra is a failed option (hes got plenty of time) but intercept defenders are easy to find.
I don't see Jamarra as a short term forward option. This is more to the balance of the side rather than his ability. His last 3 weeks have demonstrated his improved contested marking and no doubt the kid has talent.
But Sam Darcy in my view is the man to combine with 2 permanents in Naughton (long term) and Bruce (short term). Really we should be trying to replacate the early 2021 forward line (Naughton, Bruce, English) which is the best I've ever seen our forwards operate. Also I don't think Darcy has the mobility to play back and is ideally suited to the forward/ruck role long term.
I'd be very intrigued to try Jamarra as the third tall defender/primary interceptor (whilst Bruce remains) Probably his 2 weaknesses at the moment are his wavering intensity and getting bodied out of marking contests. Well the former was a long term criticism of Dale and the latter wouldn't be a problem when he can just run and jump from defence.
Naughton to defence is pointless. Whats the logic to replace an AA level (or close to) key forward for a AA level (or close to) Key defender. Many of the successful interceptors are failed forwards or late/rookie selections. Not to say Jamarra is a failed option (hes got plenty of time) but intercept defenders are easy to find.
- Aug 31, 2011
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It does make sense to turn an 'under' performing player into a performing one more quickly by trialing them in a different position vs. Naughton back. I would worry about how that would affect his development though. Can't see anyone in our current backline building confidence in their game at all at the moment.
Also agree on Darcy FWD/Ruck vs back with his limitations. Could JUH become Weitering-esque?
Also agree on Darcy FWD/Ruck vs back with his limitations. Could JUH become Weitering-esque?
The pressure upfield is absolutely garbage right now and has to improve. It's a valid concern.
David King bangs on about our lack on an interceptor. 70% of the problem is that we don't create intercept opportunities by pressure up field with kicks that are cut off or indirect highballs. "under" performing forwards have slotted into defensive positions all the time.
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No you weren't, you posted as if McComb, Scott et alia had escaped the (non existent) Ugle-Hagan criticism.
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Darcy is 2 years off being a force and Ugle-Hagan is a VFL level player for the time being. We all want the Club to up 2016 but living in dream land doesn't work.
From you they certainly have.
I always enjoy when others explain to me what I mean in my posts.
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I would love to believe that there are quick fixes that will make a difference this year. If we tighten up defensively as a team I still think we can do some damage
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Me too, BB. From a team that contested the the Grand final last year, well until mid 3rd quarter, anyway, to the apparent rabble this year is beyond rational comprehension. A cause might be discontent with perceived unfair promotions, which is what I suspect, but there are others. One of my former coach mates says he thinks it's that Bev has lost the players, like McCartney did. My other former coach mate blames it on a couple of his whipping boys, both of whom happen to be defenders. The thing about the 2015-2016 list was ability to win your own ball was a precondition for selection, a legacy of McCartney. Is that any longer a pre condition for selection ? What buoys us is what we achieved in 2016, from a position a touch better than where we are now. I have faith in a number of institutions, among which is our Club.
Good game from Jamarra this week. Some early goals, some marks didn't stick. I need to go back and look at the replay again, but one or two I reckon his opponent waited until he was in the air with his arms up then gave him a body shove to throw him off balance. I believe this was a rule the AFL briefly cracked down on years ago as "tunnelling", but like most of those fly-by-night, here today gone tomorrow rules, it is no longer enforced, or even discussed.
The kid is coming along nicely, and confidence is building. We really need to ensure, if we play JUH, Naughton and Bruce this week, that the 3 talls get separation from each other, and aren't contesting for the same high ball.
And judging by these highlights, we've got just the bloke to manage that.
www.hawthornfc.com.au
The kid is coming along nicely, and confidence is building. We really need to ensure, if we play JUH, Naughton and Bruce this week, that the 3 talls get separation from each other, and aren't contesting for the same high ball.
And judging by these highlights, we've got just the bloke to manage that.
Matt Spangher Highlights
The fans know him as Spang. Matt Spangher played 24 games in the brown and gold including the 2014 Premiership win over his old side Sydney.
- Sep 14, 2010
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Yeah Marra actually mentioned it in an interview after the game and it was kind of concerning. The reporter said it must have been nice having some space to jump without Naughts and Marra sort of said ‘yeah Naughts has grabbed a few out of my hands hasn’t he’. He followed it up with info suggesting that naughts had said they’re better all flying for the ball so one of them can mark it.
If this is the advice of our forwards coaches, then FCUK ME DEAD.
It’s common practise for a key position player to nominate themselves as the marking player in a pack and then the others form roles surrounding that pack. One blocks, one crumbs etc etc. this should be drilled into them in training. It’s what Bruce was so good at. How is the norm for them all launching aimlessly??
I hope our coaching team or at least Chris Grant heard that and threw up in his mouth. Terrible forward craft advice. Everyone gets their go for a launch but it’s not a free for all. That’s why we are so inefficient up front.
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Agree, I think his role will definitely evolve into a high CHF. His work marking up the wings before the Stkilda game for about a month was really good. He’s got a beautiful long kick to advantage if he’s 80m out too. Have seen him deliver it very well on multiple occasions from that distance.
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Grinding teeth and biting my tongue so hard
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- Sep 17, 2014
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I think he can be an explosive forward - mid if his tank improves.
Wasn’t there an article where Marra mentioned he would like to spend time in the midfield down the track.
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ossie_21
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Yeah, you’ve already made it clear he’s reached his peak and has zero room for development left, even if we keep him on the list for the next 8 years.
If you choose to not post in this thread any more (please), that would be fantastic and the mature people can actually discuss his development.
GreyWind
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Ideally between Marra and Naughts one of them is always presenting as a high option letting the other rest at CHF while letting Darcy/English/Bruce sit deep. Drags a key back up letting Darcy or English use their height to the best advantage while not having someone come over the top while allowing Weightman, West or Garcia even crumb the front of the pack or lock the ball in deep.
Mofra
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For years I've been pulling me hair out as we lock long down the line to McNeill, McComb, Scott, insert midget here.
Marra is already one of our best kicks to a leading forward, he just knows where to kick it. Gets him away from Naughton too as mentioned above, they have flown for the same mark at times. He always has the option of rolling back closer to goal at times to get dangerous there, especially if we get a messy F50 entry from his opposite side
Dog 36
Norm Smith Medallist
After Friday nights game I came away thinking JUH is coming along really well. Patience is the key and keep playing him.
BUT what Friday showed me more than anything and JUH confirmed it in an interview is that our Forward line does not have a personnel issue but it does have a system/chemistry/structure issue.
Naughton, Bruce, JUH, West, Weightman and Schache/McLean/English/Bont/Dunkley/Bedendo/JJ/McNeil/Vandermeer etc would be the envy of many sides.
In the same way Eade's small forward line caused chaos due to the talent in there and how they spread (Johnno, Hahn, Robbins, Akermanis, Higgins, etc virtually never contested against each other - they just caused panic in oppo defences by running to space and to open up space), as Dog 36 says, we really need to sort out how all these riches we have can also play to the team's maximum benefit.
It's not only Naughton and JUH or Naughton and Hannan/Weightman either, it's sometimes 3 or more forwards flying in the same contest. I know Cody is a good overhead mark, but if he is in the same piece of F50 as the big boys, his job should be to stay down and pick off the spillage or apply defensive pressure if a defender takes possession. Same with all the smalls - if you are the only one in the vicinity, fly by all means, but if there is a KPF as the target, FGS stay down and play the percentages.
It's interesting that English often takes marks in F50 with no other team-mates flying against him, yet anyone else, even Naughton, and everyone seems to be having a go.
Is Spangher the right person to be coaching this? I don't know, but we certainly need to sort out the forward line to be more cohesive.
It's not only Naughton and JUH or Naughton and Hannan/Weightman either, it's sometimes 3 or more forwards flying in the same contest. I know Cody is a good overhead mark, but if he is in the same piece of F50 as the big boys, his job should be to stay down and pick off the spillage or apply defensive pressure if a defender takes possession. Same with all the smalls - if you are the only one in the vicinity, fly by all means, but if there is a KPF as the target, FGS stay down and play the percentages.
It's interesting that English often takes marks in F50 with no other team-mates flying against him, yet anyone else, even Naughton, and everyone seems to be having a go.
Is Spangher the right person to be coaching this? I don't know, but we certainly need to sort out the forward line to be more cohesive.
