Jonathan Hay - The next silvagni ???

[Dave]

Originally posted by Chris_23
Yeah, i must admit i was rather annoyed at the goal umpire. I know the Dons still would've won by a point but who's to say we wouldn't have taken it the length of the field and scored. Dunstall could've got his 10th for the day/evening.

Given he got his ninth from the ensuing centre bounce it's unlikely

Go Bombers? Sure he wasn't saying "No Bombers!"?

Nope, definitely "Go" He's also picked up from somewhere, must have been the martians, "Hawks are pooey mummy". Mummy was less than impressed

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by Rohan_


There was not much difference between the strength of Langford and SOS. Langford looked bigger but he had more definition than SOS.

SOS was just as big and strong as Langford.

You bet. SOS was as strong in a one on one contest as anyone in the AFL when he retired. Should have seen him make Hay look a lot weaker than he is in round 17 of last year. Only Lockett used to give him problems in the strength department, apart from that SOS could take on anyone in a one on one.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Worm4
This is not a factual argument. I have heard Dunstall/Lockett actually specify on Sport 927 that their toughest opponent WAS Silvagni. You obviously don't get 927 as you are in Sydney. I'm sure others on this board can attest to it.

What, like they attested to you pulling other names out of your nether-regions?

Just on the stats thing, are you aware how the full back of the century was judged. How do you know that statistics weren't brought into the discussion roon ? Were you there ? Are you on the panel ?

Do you think it is really hard for statisticians to mark down how many goals were kicked on individual players ? I don't think so ! Would this information be critical when judging this position ? Do you still think that Greg Philips should have got the gig ?

Over 100 years? Yeah, it is hard to count goals kicked against a fullback. Hell, they have enough trouble in matchups today to figure out who is on who when a goal is kicked.

Why do you keep bringing Greg Phillips into this?

As for other options, as a 26 year old South Australian, I doubt I'd have much go at picking other options for a VFL/AFL team of the Century, but if you're denying that Silvagni's case was greatly aided by the factors I've listed previously, you're a fool.

Have the selection committee seen 100 years of football? Then how can they really judge the best fullback of the century? With full-forwards there's goals kicked, which is why there's always hot competition for full-forwards in any awards of this type. Perhaps they felt they needed a current player....the selection of Silvagni doesn't mean he was the best player of our era, does it? No. It means that fullback is not considered an important position for teams like this, and reputation, even if it is hype about being the Son of Serge, married to Jo Bailey and being a 7 time All-Australian (at times which we've already had pointed out were dodgy, by people other than myself. CHB? Come on).

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Porthos
As for other options, as a 26 year old South Australian, I doubt I'd have much go at picking other options for a VFL/AFL team of the Century, but if you're denying that Silvagni's case was greatly aided by the factors I've listed previously, you're a fool.

Have the selection committee seen 100 years of football? Then how can they really judge the best fullback of the century? With full-forwards there's goals kicked, which is why there's always hot competition for full-forwards in any awards of this type. Perhaps they felt they needed a current player....the selection of Silvagni doesn't mean he was the best player of our era, does it? No. It means that fullback is not considered an important position for teams like this, and reputation, even if it is hype about being the Son of Serge, married to Jo Bailey and being a 7 time All-Australian (at times which we've already had pointed out were dodgy, by people other than myself. CHB? Come on).

As for your first point ( being a self-confessed Sowth astrayan ) , how on earth can you argue against his selection then ?

You stated " Have the selection committee seen 100 years of football ?" - Has anyone ? There are players in the TOTC which played the game in the 1920/30 era. Do you have the same argument for these players, as I doubt, no-one would have seen these players play either. You also touch on Silvagni not being the best player of our era. He was selected in a specialist position. It would look pretty stupic to have say, Tony Lockett at fullback don't you think ?

Get a grip Portos. You've admitted that you can't give another player, so until you learn more about the game, I suggest you keep quiet on this one. I believe that as a viewer of approx between 500-600 afl games, I suggest to you that I am in a better position to judge than probably you.

 

[Rohan_]

Jack Regan was a far better full back than SOS.

He took on beat the likes of Pratt, Vallence, Mohr (over 700 goals) and Titus in his career.

When Pratt kicked 150 goals in a season he only managed to kick 2 goals against him for the whole year.

Add 6 flags to his CV and Silvagnis two flags look pathetic.

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Rohan_
Jack Regan was a far better full back than SOS.

He took on beat the likes of Pratt, Vallence, Mohr (over 700 goals) and Titus in his career.

When Pratt kicked 150 goals in a season he only managed to kick 2 goals against him for the whole year.

Add 6 flags to his CV and Silvagnis two flags look pathetic.

Oh, just to show that I can actually agree with you, I agree (except I dont think it looks 'pathetic' more like.... not as good is all).

Regan should have imo, from what ive heard been the selection for the Full Back spot.

Hmmm agree with Rohan.... who would have thought it possible....

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Grendel


Oh, just to show that I can actually agree with you, I agree (except I dont think it looks 'pathetic' more like.... not as good is all).

Regan should have imo, from what ive heard been the selection for the Full Back spot.

Hmmm agree with Rohan.... who would have thought it possible....

I don't disagree with Jack Regan as a selection either.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Worm4
As for your first point ( being a self-confessed Sowth astrayan ) , how on earth can you argue against his selection then ?

I argued against his 7 All-Australian selections, and gave reasons why he was talked up as much as he was. In all honesty I don't give a flying frittata about the VFL team of the century, I'm pointing out why Silvagni got it. If you read my posts from the beginning, you would realize this.

In a side filled of superstars, many of whom were indeed the best players of their era, one name sticks out like a sore thumb and thats Silvagni. He's not the best player of this era.....but because there are no objective recorded stats for fullbacks they are very hard to compare, so unlike full-forwards where you could name a stack of viable entries, and be able to judge them on actual stats to some degree, the fullback is the most fudgable position on the field.

You stated " Have the selection committee seen 100 years of football ?" - Has anyone ? There are players in the TOTC which played the game in the 1920/30 era. Do you have the same argument for these players, as I doubt, no-one would have seen these players play either.

Exactly. Which is why they go on reputation. And Silvagni had the distinct advantage of a) being on national television, b) being `multicultural' at a time when it is encouraged, c) being fairly good looking and associated with a media personality in Jo Bailey, d) playing for Carlton, e) being the Son of Serge, f) commentators giving him wraps (and as we see, once a commentator loves you once, he loves you forever). Then compare the player and his advantages to some poor muggins in 1923 who would have had to be a bloody miracle worker to make the Team of the Century (maybe a few lines in the newspaper, and a couple of senile old blokes have seen him play). Silvagni had an enormous edge, and in a position like fullback, its hard to say that a choice was definitively wrong.

When Lloyd was the All-Australian full forward in 1999 as opposed to Scott Cummings (Coleman medallist) who kicked more goals, every knew that that was wrong. They ignored the stats. But when Stephen Silvagni gets named over a rival, yeah well.....what are you going to do? What stats can you point at? Nothing, because he's a fullback.

Silvagni is a good but not amazing player. If he really is in the best 22 of Victorian football, that would be astounding.

You also touch on Silvagni not being the best player of our era. He was selected in a specialist position. It would look pretty stupic to have say, Tony Lockett at fullback don't you think ?

No ****. Almost as dumb as Silvagni at CHB. Yes, he was selected in a specialist position....but look at the other players selected. Each of them was recognised as being a full step above their rivals of the day....was Silvagni? No, he was one of many....no obviously traits, and if you actually read the related thread you started, he has a reputation for getting away with murder thanks to umpires.

Get a grip Portos. You've admitted that you can't give another player, so until you learn more about the game, I suggest you keep quiet on this one. I believe that as a viewer of approx between 500-600 afl games, I suggest to you that I am in a better position to judge than probably you.

Mate, I know plenty about the game. What I don't know about is pre 90s VFL. As I hear it thats a league, not a game.

More to the point, I know plenty about media perceptions and how they influence decision making, which is, I believe, my main point re: Silvagni and his 7 All-Australian selections and Team of the Century selection.

It would also help your case if you were to be less condescending if you're going to keep responding....at the moment, I see a whole bunch of agreement for my perception of Silvagni on this thread, and on the other thread which you started on the `untouchables', which is making you look like a goon, especially when coupled with the odd false `FACT'.

 

[Collo]

Langers

To claim Chris Langford isn't the best full back in the history of the game would be ridiculous.

Closely followed by Silvagni though.

Jon Hay is on a verge of something special. I think he has already assumed the best full back in the league mantle, has it all over Fletcher.

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Rohan_


The best full back of the 80's was Gary Pert.

And just to show I dont agree with Rohan often (who does aside from Rohan)


PERT???? The same Pert who would cop at least a half dozen kicked on him every time he lined up on Dunstall (usually more), that Pert???

Best of the eighties??? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Snowflakes/Hell

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Porthos
I argued against his 7 All-Australian selections, and gave reasons why he was talked up as much as he was. In all honesty I don't give a flying frittata about the VFL team of the century, I'm pointing out why Silvagni got it. If you read my posts from the beginning, you would realize this.

In a side filled of superstars, many of whom were indeed the best players of their era, one name sticks out like a sore thumb and thats Silvagni. He's not the best player of this era.....but because there are no objective recorded stats for fullbacks they are very hard to compare, so unlike full-forwards where you could name a stack of viable entries, and be able to judge them on actual stats to some degree, the fullback is the most fudgable position on the field.

Exactly. Which is why they go on reputation. And Silvagni had the distinct advantage of a) being on national television, b) being `multicultural' at a time when it is encouraged, c) being fairly good looking and associated with a media personality in Jo Bailey, d) playing for Carlton, e) being the Son of Serge, f) commentators giving him wraps (and as we see, once a commentator loves you once, he loves you forever). Then compare the player and his advantages to some poor muggins in 1923 who would have had to be a bloody miracle worker to make the Team of the Century (maybe a few lines in the newspaper, and a couple of senile old blokes have seen him play). Silvagni had an enormous edge, and in a position like fullback, its hard to say that a choice was definitively wrong.

When Lloyd was the All-Australian full forward in 1999 as opposed to Scott Cummings (Coleman medallist) who kicked more goals, every knew that that was wrong. They ignored the stats. But when Stephen Silvagni gets named over a rival, yeah well.....what are you going to do? What stats can you point at? Nothing, because he's a fullback.

Silvagni is a good but not amazing player. If he really is in the best 22 of Victorian football, that would be astounding.

No ****. Almost as dumb as Silvagni at CHB. Yes, he was selected in a specialist position....but look at the other players selected. Each of them was recognised as being a full step above their rivals of the day....was Silvagni? No, he was one of many....no obviously traits, and if you actually read the related thread you started, he has a reputation for getting away with murder thanks to umpires.



Mate, I know plenty about the game. What I don't know about is pre 90s VFL. As I hear it thats a league, not a game.

More to the point, I know plenty about media perceptions and how they influence decision making, which is, I believe, my main point re: Silvagni and his 7 All-Australian selections and Team of the Century selection.

It would also help your case if you were to be less condescending if you're going to keep responding....at the moment, I see a whole bunch of agreement for my perception of Silvagni on this thread, and on the other thread which you started on the `untouchables', which is making you look like a goon, especially when coupled with the odd false `FACT'.

Listen here you little minded person. Silvagni was rated the best fullback of his era. He was the only fullback to have played over 300 games and was ranked the leagues top defender in 7 of his 15 years in the game. Given that he didn't play fullback until the 1988, you can make that 13 years. You can say all of the so-called perceived stories on Silvagni being helped by the umpires and so-on but I can tell you this - he was the best person at his craft. If he did it, and got away with with it, good luck to him. If the unpires don't see anything, then he is going to keep on doing it until he gets caught regularly. It's happened to Lloyd already, and now he has changed his game. What is even more laughable, was that he got away with any so-called cheating for his entire 15 years in the game. He must have been the biggest cheat to have ever graced the field for any team .

You've even admitted that you can not name a replacement person for the position because you haven't seen enough of the game. I don't see why then you are arguing this. Greg Williams made the team of the century as well. Why are you not going to argue against that decision. Are you jealous that Carlton filled more than a quarter of the positions in the team of the century ?

Nathan Buckley has made 6 all australians, and dare i say it, will probably make his 7th this year. Would you suggest the same argument for Buckley ? Craig Bradley has made it 8 or so times as well. Does the same apply ?

If you honesty believe the dribble coming out of you mouth, do yourself a favour, grab some tissue, and wipe your chest. Heaven know's, it does wonders for your butt.

Now before you reply to this post, come back to me with some FACTS of your own, rather than the hearsay information which inevitably comes out of your state.

"Silvagni being talked up by commentators, married to Jo Bailey, and being a Carlton person are reasons behind his selection" - oh ppppplease !

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Worm4


He was the only fullback to have played over 300 games

Moore and Langford both played over 300.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Worm4
Listen here you little minded person. Silvagni was rated the best fullback of his era. He was the only fullback to have played over 300 games and was ranked the leagues top defender in 7 of his 15 years in the game. Given that he didn't play fullback until the 1988, you can make that 13 years. You can say all of the so-called perceived stories on Silvagni being helped by the umpires and so-on but I can tell you this - he was the best person at his craft. If he did it, and got away with with it, good luck to him. If the unpires don't see anything, then he is going to keep on doing it until he gets caught regularly. It's happened to Lloyd already, and now he has changed his game. What is even more laughable, was that he got away with any so-called cheating for his entire 15 years in the game. He must have been the biggest cheat to have ever graced the field for any team .

You still haven't read any of what I've said, have you? You've just seen me say Silvagni was lucky to get the number of awards he's got and gone off like a bull at a red rag. I can't stress this enough....READ MY POSTS. You've gone straight to the bits that piss you off without reading what else I've actually said. And I'm little minded? Please.

Please, answer my points about the benefits of being a good player in an unpopular position at a time when population-wide knowledge of the game is at an all time high, as opposed to a player in an earleir era.

Answer the fact that the other thread which you started had numerous people indicate that Silvagni was indeed lucky to not give away a lot more frees than he should have.

Please also note numerous queries about Silvagni's All-Australian appearances (Centre-half back? You still haven't responded to that)

Also, you look at the team of the century and tell me which of those players Silvagni is better than.

You've even admitted that you can not name a replacement person for the position because you haven't seen enough of the game.

That I haven't seen enough of the VFL over 100 years, correct. Because that wasn't the main point

I don't see why then you are arguing this. Greg Williams made the team of the century as well. Why are you not going to argue against that decision. Are you jealous that Carlton filled more than a quarter of the positions in the team of the century ?

I'm sorry, was this thread titled "Team of the Century players that shouldn't have made it?". Was it titled "Post here if you're jealous of Carlton"? No. It was about Silvagni. Try getting a point at some stage.

Nathan Buckley has made 6 all australians, and dare i say it, will probably make his 7th this year. Would you suggest the same argument for Buckley ? Craig Bradley has made it 8 or so times as well. Does the same apply ?

You tell me. Thats not my argument, I'm talking about Silvagni. Have Bradley or Buckley ever been named in a position that they don't play regularly?

If you honesty believe the dribble coming out of you mouth, do yourself a favour, grab some tissue, and wipe your chest. Heaven know's, it does wonders for your butt.

Ah yes, back to insulting me. You're all class.

Now before you reply to this post, come back to me with some FACTS of your own, rather than the hearsay information which inevitably comes out of your state.

I'm sorry, I don't think I could possibly pull `FACTS' out of my rear end half as well as you do.

"Silvagni being talked up by commentators, married to Jo Bailey, and being a Carlton person are reasons behind his selection" - oh ppppplease !

Try quoting what I actually said next time, and in context too.

Champion tactics you're using here Worm. Here's the summary

1) Insult the other person's knowledge of the game
2) Misquote him
3) Use `FACTS' that aren't actually true
4) Tell them that they're arguing something that they're not, and say that its wrong.
5) Ignore any points they make and revert to telling them that the argument they're not making is wrong.
6) Insult them.
7) Misquote and mock them.

Well done, you're a first grade troll.

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Porthos
You still haven't read any of what I've said, have you? You've just seen me say Silvagni was lucky to get the number of awards he's got and gone off like a bull at a red rag. I can't stress this enough....READ MY POSTS. You've gone straight to the bits that piss you off without reading what else I've actually said. And I'm little minded? Please.

Please, answer my points about the benefits of being a good player in an unpopular position at a time when population-wide knowledge of the game is at an all time high, as opposed to a player in an earleir era.

Answer the fact that the other thread which you started had numerous people indicate that Silvagni was indeed lucky to not give away a lot more frees than he should have.

Please also note numerous queries about Silvagni's All-Australian appearances (Centre-half back? You still haven't responded to that)

Also, you look at the team of the century and tell me which of those players Silvagni is better than.

That I haven't seen enough of the VFL over 100 years, correct. Because that wasn't the main point

I'm sorry, was this thread titled "Team of the Century players that shouldn't have made it?". Was it titled "Post here if you're jealous of Carlton"? No. It was about Silvagni. Try getting a point at some stage.

You tell me. Thats not my argument, I'm talking about Silvagni. Have Bradley or Buckley ever been named in a position that they don't play regularly?

Ah yes, back to insulting me. You're all class.

I'm sorry, I don't think I could possibly pull `FACTS' out of my rear end half as well as you do.

Try quoting what I actually said next time, and in context too.

Champion tactics you're using here Worm. Here's the summary

1) Insult the other person's knowledge of the game
2) Misquote him
3) Use `FACTS' that aren't actually true
4) Tell them that they're arguing something that they're not, and say that its wrong.
5) Ignore any points they make and revert to telling them that the argument they're not making is wrong.
6) Insult them.
7) Misquote and mock them.

Well done, you're a first grade troll.

You are indeed quite a dikhead.

First, it was YOU who you started on the Silvagni thread stating for the record "he was the most talk up player " blah blah blah

Then YOU state some non factual argument about how he was selected in the team of the century.

And then YOU can not give an alternative answer in your discussion

And finally, it was YOU ( you goon ), who initiated the mindless gutter trash talk. I was mearly responding to your initial classy effort.

All I was doing was responding to your intial posts.

I ask that you go back and check everything that I have written in this particular thread before you start accusing me of trolling.

All this and not once have YOU come up with any facts. It's all hearsay. Stating that Silvagni was selected on your written reasons is hearsay. Get it. NON FACTUAL. comprende ?

No if you can't come back to me with any factual information on any footballer who should have been selected before Silvagni, then I suggest you don't bother responding.

 

[Portia]

I've responded to your points, and you still haven't responded to mine. Good stuff. I suspect you can't.

I've made my arguments, and they must be pretty clear because I find a heck of a lot of people agreeing with the things I'm saying here.

Your summation of my argument as`blah blah blah' and lack of accurate reference to comments made on this argument, makes me think that you either aren't reading what I wrote, or you simply can't understand what other posters seem to.

 

[Worm4]

Originally posted by Porthos
[You still haven't read any of what I've said, have you? You've just seen me say Silvagni was lucky to get the number of awards he's got and gone off like a bull at a red rag. I can't stress this enough....READ MY POSTS. You've gone straight to the bits that piss you off without reading what else I've actually said. And I'm little minded? Please.]

Yes, I have read your posts on this. You initially stated that Silvagni was the most talk up footballer in the league. - ridiculous comment on your behalf

[Please, answer my points about the benefits of being a good player in an unpopular position at a time when population-wide knowledge of the game is at an all time high, as opposed to a player in an earleir era.]

I don't understand why this has to be done. Why is fullback an unpopular position ? I rate it as one of the most important positions on the field, particularly in an era where notably the greatest full forwards were playing the game. The game back in the "earlier era" was in fact different. It consisted of 12 Victorian based teams and any information on these players was through actually being at the game, by radio, or by paper the following day. Players like Stewart, Bob Chitty, the Collier brothers were all known about. I don't get were exactly you are going with this, but if it has something to do with nedia exposure, I , for a minute, don't buy it.

[Answer the fact that the other thread which you started had numerous people indicate that Silvagni was indeed lucky to not give away a lot more frees than he should have.]

Just a quick response that I will put to you - Was he lucky for 15 years ? I'm not of the same opinion. I've seen Silvagni play since his 1st game. I'll tell you what, a lot has gone against him too.

[Please also note numerous queries about Silvagni's All-Australian appearances (Centre-half back? You still haven't responded to that)]

This happened in a year where Gelnn Jakovich was injured and Langford was selected at Fullback. You are going to argue that there were 14 or so toher CHB's going around, but this has been an era of particularly week CHB's. Another thing is, I don't do the selecting down at AFL house. If they saw fit, well they saw fit. It's like when they name Lockett at Full Forward, and Dunstall at Forawrd Pocket. It's the same in theory.

[Also, you look at the team of the century and tell me which of those players Silvagni is better than.]

Sigh.....anyone who plays 312 games of the highest quality deserves some accolation. As a fullback, he deserved his place in the side. I rated him ahead of Dench,Southby, Langford and Jack Regan however did not see Regan play.

That I haven't seen enough of the VFL over 100 years, correct. Because that wasn't the main point

[I'm sorry, was this thread titled "Team of the Century players that shouldn't have made it?". Was it titled "Post here if you're jealous of Carlton"? No. It was about Silvagni. Try getting a point at some stage. ]

I didn't bring the TOFT into the argument. You actually stated it before me.

[You tell me. Thats not my argument, I'm talking about Silvagni. Have Bradley or Buckley ever been named in a position that they don't play regularly?]

Yes, Bradley has been named as a rover when he plays centre. Buckley has been named on the wing ( from memory )

[Ah yes, back to insulting me. You're all class.]

You started with the goon comment

[I'm sorry, I don't think I could possibly pull `FACTS' out of my rear end half as well as you do. ]

I've categorically heard this information on 3UZ. If you believe DCFC, and I personally know him, then you are as gullable as the next person. To his defence, Ablett actually has never rated a best opposition player, but have named 2 or 3 on occassions and in every one of them, Silvagni's name is mentioned. I think I would rather take the word of the number 1 and 3 ranked full forwards in the history of the game anyway as it gives it more credence.

[[ Well done, you're a first grade troll.

]

If I was trolling, what the hell would I be doing stating this case ?

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Worm4
Yes, I have read your posts on this. You initially stated that Silvagni was the most talk up footballer in the league. - ridiculous comment on your behalf [/B]

Most talked-up fullback. Quotes are your friend. Not so ridiculous when you look at what I actually said.

I don't understand why this has to be done. Why is fullback an unpopular position ? I rate it as one of the most important positions on the field, particularly in an era where notably the greatest full forwards were playing the game. The game back in the "earlier era" was in fact different. It consisted of 12 Victorian based teams and any information on these players was through actually being at the game, by radio, or by paper the following day. Players like Stewart, Bob Chitty, the Collier brothers were all known about. I don't get were exactly you are going with this, but if it has something to do with nedia exposure, I , for a minute, don't buy it.

When ends of football grounds are named, they're not named after fullbacks. When kids pick numbers for their guernseys, fullbacks are not very prominent. When people name their `best sides' there's rarely comments about the worth of fullbacks in them, but there certainly is about most other positions.

Being `known about' and being widely watched and talked about are very different prospects. They're known about, but how many people have seen them play? When you go back at look up Coventry's you see the goals and can compare to others of that position....when you look at midfielders you can do a possession count, and see detailed ratings of their performances in newspaper articles. When you go back and look up fullbacks, what do you see? Not much, except that maybe a player held another quite well on a given day. An advantage Silvagni has is that all of the selectors have -seen- him play....on other players they're going on hearsay, and whatever statistics have been recorded.

Just a quick response that I will put to you - Was he lucky for 15 years ? I'm not of the same opinion. I've seen Silvagni play since his 1st game. I'll tell you what, a lot has gone against him too.

No, he wasn't lucky for 15 years. But he was certainly lucky in a reasonable number of them, because of his profile. You have workman like players who are very good but don't get talked about, and you have high profile players who when they're good, get rave reviews, and when they're just ok, still get them. Whitnall, poor sod, is in the `workmanlike' list...he's a solid player, but for whatever reason, he's not talked about in wider circles as being as good as he is. I reckon Silvagni was the reverse.

[Please also note numerous queries about Silvagni's All-Australian appearances (Centre-half back? You still haven't responded to that)]

This happened in a year where Gelnn Jakovich was injured and Langford was selected at Fullback. You are going to argue that there were 14 or so toher CHB's going around, but this has been an era of particularly week CHB's. Another thing is, I don't do the selecting down at AFL house. If they saw fit, well they saw fit. It's like when they name Lockett at Full Forward, and Dunstall at Forawrd Pocket. It's the same in theory.

And in 1999 in a year when Justin Leppitsch played a solid year at fullback. But as weak as CHB's may be, there were plenty of contenders for that position that did indeed play a better year at CHB than Silvagni.

[Also, you look at the team of the century and tell me which of those players Silvagni is better than.]

Sigh.....anyone who plays 312 games of the highest quality deserves some accolation. As a fullback, he deserved his place in the side. I rated him ahead of Dench,Southby, Langford and Jack Regan however did not see Regan play.

I agree. My statement is that he was lucky to get as many accolades as he has received, and was aided by factors I've listed previously.

And if Silvagni deserved a place in the Team of the Century as a specialist fullback (regardless of relative `greatness' compared to the other players), then surely -any- CHB deserved two of Silvagni's two All-Australian spots due to their ability as a specialist CHB, as opposed to being an out-of-position fullback like Silvagni. It can't work both ways, Worm.

(I'm sorry, was this thread titled "Team of the Century players that shouldn't have made it?". Was it titled "Post here if you're jealous of Carlton"? No. It was about Silvagni. Try getting a point at some stage. )

I didn't bring the TOFT into the argument. You actually stated it before me.

Here is the first post mentioning the team of the century. Please also note my original statements on Silvagni.


Worm4 said:
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Originally posted by Porthos

I know they do. Fact is, Silvagni got away with a lot more than any other backman (with the exception of Martyn for a couple of years)....because he was SOS.

If Wayne Carey is unlucky to not have won a Brownlow, I think Silvagni is lucky to have gained 7 All-Australian selections.
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Geez, I could say the EXACT SAME THING about that little sniper Wanganeen.

Are you saying that Silvagni was untouchable ? He obviously didn't deserve his 7 All-australian selections, obviously didn't deserve his FB of the Century award, and was abviously just an average player. You must be an absolute expert in regards to football. Don't worry...just figures it out...you're west of the border...thought so !

The funny thing is, no one has ever bothered to bring up a replacement for SIlvagni in any of these prestigious awards.
Bring it on , and let me cut him down.

Now trodd off back to SA and concentrate on winning a final.

Interesting when we go back, isn't it.

 

[HTB Saints]

Originally posted by Simon_Nesbit


The rest? well...big respect for Leppitsch (sp?) but injuries seem to take their toll, Martyn, just a thug, Barry Hall (your joking right?), Andrew Dunkley, (see Gaspar, getting past it now, but in his day was brilliant stopper), McIntosh (see dunkley).

Just thought I'd point out the last time Hay played on Hall, Hall cut him up and won the game off his own boot, after the siren.

Methinks the Hawk supporters here have Hay a bit far ahead of where he really is at the moment. He may look good on occasions, but can also look very ordinary. Presently Fletcher is a better FB than Hay.

Not that I'd be putting him quite in Silvagni's class, but I reckon Danny Frawley had a very low goals per game average against him. The one bloke that did cut him up was Allen Jakovich. He had a very good record on Dunstall and Ablett, and had a perfect record on Plugger, far better than Silvagni or Langford had on him.

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by HTB Saints


Just thought I'd point out the last time Hay played on Hall, Hall cut him

True - as did the great man Silvagni in round 17. He made him look like a kid. And guess what happened.......Hay was doing the scragging and jumper pulling that Silvagni has been accused of for years.

 

[Hawkforce]

Originally posted by Blues2001


True - as did the great man Silvagni in round 17. He made him look like a kid. And guess what happened.......Hay was doing the scragging and jumper pulling that Silvagni has been accused of for years.

Yeah... it was a pity we couldn't hide Hay by putting him on a lesser player such as Koutafides

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by Hawkforce


Yeah... it was a pity we couldn't hide Hay by putting him on a lesser player such as Koutafides

bloody hell I am never going to hear the end of that round 2 match of last year! GOALden Hawk will never shut up about Hay's performance on Kouta..........it's ok - I can allow Kouta one bad game (although he was our best player that day - yes we were THAT bad!)

 

[GOALden Hawk]

Originally posted by Blues2001


bloody hell I am never going to hear the end of that round 2 match of last year! GOALden Hawk will never shut up about Hay's performance on Kouta..........it's ok - I can allow Kouta one bad game (although he was our best player that day - yes we were THAT bad!)

Ahhh....let's talk about that day again shall we? Hay's lost his man...takes a bounce, boots from outside 50...it's another goal to the Hawks!!!!

And it's true...I never shut up about that performance.

 

[Fat Red]

Porthos, trying to sort out the important points from what you've said, I don't understand your objection to Silvagni being picked at CHB.

How about some real facts:

Silvagni consistenly played on the main forward of the opposition, (apart from Matthew Lloyd, who usually got Manton), whether that forward played at FF or CHF.

He played on Carey, for example. And Tredrea.

In that particular year I don't think any specialist CHB did especially well, although I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
And it's true...I never shut up about that performance.

Do you not have many other happy memories?

 

[Grendel]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Do you not have many other happy memories?

ODN's this is GOALdens memory forever much like 84 (Currans five in a quarter to bring the Hawks home) is my memory forever of Princes Park.

Sorry mate, he will be telling this one to his Grandkids!!!