i belive Hay will be a very good player but i dout he will be as good as Silvagni
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Jonathan Hay - The next silvagni ???
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topdon
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One good season certainly don't maketh the player. 
Originally posted by topdon
One good season certainly don't maketh the player.
True, but Hay has had two in a row now and (barring injury) will only continue to improve. Personally, I believe he could be utterly devastating at CHF, but Schwab is obviously loathe to move him from FB while he's doing such a fine job there.
I'm not sure about comparing Hay to Silvagni as they are different players. Silvagni was a tough nut who enjoyed (with assistance) a distinguished career, but it was certainly a travesty when he was named FB of the century. The whole team of the century concept is dubious to begin with, but I thought it was poor form to put Silvagni ahead of David Dench. Dench was pure class, the fullback's fullback! He was good enough to be named captain of North Melbourne at 20 during their glorious 70s era and he revolutionised the FB role with exciting, running play from the back end. Langford tried to play similarly and did extremely well, but for mine there has been no peer to Denchy.
Kevin
Strange adjective for (admittedly skilled) octopus.
Kev, I love you!! 
We all like haystacks at Hawthorn. It might be a bit unfair to compare him tho SOS who was the master at his particular skill.
Silvagni alo played on three of the best FF's ever and You will never be able to make that comparison for Johnny. Only Lloyd seems to be a standout at this stage.
Silvagni alo played on three of the best FF's ever and You will never be able to make that comparison for Johnny. Only Lloyd seems to be a standout at this stage.
Dave
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"seems"?
Grendel, are you serious about wanting Hay to go to CHF or is it tongue in cheek?
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I reckon Hay is the next Langford...maybe. he's a big athlete who is developing some football sense and will be an excellent defender in years to come. He's nothing like Silvagni, 'though.
Silvagni was a tremendous natural fotballer, and he had great athletic gifts too. he looked clumsy at times but rarely mucked it up. He was strong as an ox, and was a master at grabbing his opponent (not unlike Gary Pert in that respect). He did cheat a lot in defense and he got away with it. He was such a good player his coaches often gave into the temptation to shift him up the ground (which explains the stint at CHB etc).
His selection in the team of the century was a joke. Who was FB in Carlton's team of the Century? I reckon Langford was as good at FB (although not as good a footballer), and Southby and Dench were both better than SOS. My old dad reckoned Regan was best of all, although he may have been biased.
Silvagni was a tremendous natural fotballer, and he had great athletic gifts too. he looked clumsy at times but rarely mucked it up. He was strong as an ox, and was a master at grabbing his opponent (not unlike Gary Pert in that respect). He did cheat a lot in defense and he got away with it. He was such a good player his coaches often gave into the temptation to shift him up the ground (which explains the stint at CHB etc).
His selection in the team of the century was a joke. Who was FB in Carlton's team of the Century? I reckon Langford was as good at FB (although not as good a footballer), and Southby and Dench were both better than SOS. My old dad reckoned Regan was best of all, although he may have been biased.
"Unacustomed as I am to public speaking I feel that I must
let the public know that Jon Hay is without doubt the"
*the sudden rush of machinegun fire from elt,Chris23,DCFC etc at the podium quickly silences the speaker from launching his infamous 'Clarence Darrow' like, Hay to CHF speech!*
Pedantic a tad, wot ?
Lloyd is still not a proverbial pimple on the other three, and we all know it.
We are talking full-backs right ? There are plenty if standout CHF's so you could make a comparison there. SOS, langers and Hay have all taken on the CHF at times.
Plus Hay might get a shot at plugger, should be interesting. Twiggy on Bazza Hall
Dave
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No
No, he needs to produce at the current level for a few more seasons yet. That however was not the point. Surely after succesive tons he qualifies as a "standout" at the moment?
Originally posted by Dave
No
No, he needs to produce at the current level for a few more seasons yet. That however was not the point. Surely after succesive tons he qualifies as a "standout" at the moment?
'Seems' as in there don't 'seem' to be any other standout PERMANENT full forwards . Not meant as a slight on Lloyd.
In fact he's the only player which makes me think "I hope Hay is fit when we play them". All the others we could find soem way to do it.
EG silvagni (now retired) gave hay the runaround but we dropped someone into the 'hole' and the problem was solved.
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Fair nuf.
He is somewhat of a handfull. Luckily Collo changed the father son rule or I'd be echoing your sentiment.
'ken oath she is, Old Son!
There's little doubt in my mind that Hay would have played games at CHF during 2001 had McPharlin stayed fit to hold down FB.
I was foaming at the mouth for him to be given the opportunity.
He's tall, strong, fast, fit, has good hands and kicks like a mule. He showed on the odd occasion that he loves getting forward to kick a goal too.
Kevin
Yeah, he could be a good CHF but I don't think it is a good idea. With Croad gone, who would take his place beside Rawlings as your 2nd key defender? Cox? Christ, I'd hope not. As far as team balance goes IMHO Hay should stay in the backline for the moment.
Should one of them be injured the second fefender might come from:
Rehn, Holland, Barker or Graham depending on the forward needing to be minded
Rehn, Holland, Barker or Graham depending on the forward needing to be minded
Blues 2001:
You're right, they've lost some flexibility with Croad & McPharlin leaving, but it wouldn't have to be a permanent switch. Holland is still our best CHF option anyway, but I wouldn't be averse to swinging him back to CHB on occasion, allowing Rawlings to fill-in at FB while Hay runs around at CHF. Mark Graham can also fill in at FB, although I only like to see him playing there on the odd occasion.
I think you've always got to think about how your players can be used flexibly to suit unusual situations and those unpleasant times when your favoured side structure struggles to cut the mustard. You won't obtain such flexibility unless you're willing to gamble with positional changes at times, and I was disappointed that Schwab didn't give Hay more time up forward last year, particularly when he often stated in interviews that he'd like to have Hay up forward more regularly.
Its no good just talking about it.
Kevin
You're right, they've lost some flexibility with Croad & McPharlin leaving, but it wouldn't have to be a permanent switch. Holland is still our best CHF option anyway, but I wouldn't be averse to swinging him back to CHB on occasion, allowing Rawlings to fill-in at FB while Hay runs around at CHF. Mark Graham can also fill in at FB, although I only like to see him playing there on the odd occasion.
I think you've always got to think about how your players can be used flexibly to suit unusual situations and those unpleasant times when your favoured side structure struggles to cut the mustard. You won't obtain such flexibility unless you're willing to gamble with positional changes at times, and I was disappointed that Schwab didn't give Hay more time up forward last year, particularly when he often stated in interviews that he'd like to have Hay up forward more regularly.
Its no good just talking about it.
Kevin
Good post Kev. Being flexible can't be a bad thing for your team, and I'm sure Hay could do a job at CHF. I just wouldn't want him to play there more than he does in defence, unless he becomes as good as Carey at it!
If you are playing a team like Richmond, then I probably wouldn't recommend leaving Mark Graham on a Richo or Ottens, and I'd definitely have Hay down back then. However, if you played a team such as Geelong, who have stuff all up front to kick to if you ask me, then I think it would be great to see Hay at CHF. And, like you said, if your system isn't working (no matter who you are playing) it can be worth a try that's for sure.
I am very, very sorry to bump this thread.
I was digging around for some SOS vs various FF threads for some records, but I laughed my arse off when I came across this one. I couldn't resist!
I was digging around for some SOS vs various FF threads for some records, but I laughed my arse off when I came across this one. I couldn't resist!
hawkstaf said:
hey look what you did now i bumped it
I don't think Jonathan Hay is up there with Silvagni .. that's overrating him.
this is an old thread from when he was with the hawks some one bumped it by accident
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