Let’s start again - Changes R18 vs Carltank

[Dogs_R_Us]

Is it ok if they get close?

 

[dogwatch]

I'm making the trek this week, which will be closer to a 5+ hour round trip via VLine than my regular drive down the highway.

I think back to Alan Joyce in 1995(?) choosing to start Leon Cameron at chb on Wayne Carey at VUWO. As they lined up for the opening bounce, we saw the '8' on his jumper, and assumed it was Sedat Sir, which was concerning enough (no offence to Sedat, but he wasn't in Carey's league, but from memory we had limited options at the time). Then we realised it WAS Leon!

It actually wasn't as bad as it seemed, as an individual contest for a while. Cameron played out in front of Carey, had some early wins intercepting marks and rebounding. Eventually though, after finding other avenues to score, a 6-goal-ish 1/4 time lead to North was beyond us, even though we hung in there. From memory Joyce eventually conceded and moved Cameron away. I think Carey actually got BOG and/or 3 Brownlow votes for the latter part of his game (opposed by Sir or Standfield).

It was an interesting tactic though, and not something Carey or Pagan expected, but also relied on our mids creating pressure on North CB clearances so Cameron didn't have to compete with Carey in the air. Joyce's 2 finals series with us were notorious for most of our talls being unavailable both years (not his fault, even if he was ultimately the wrong choice as coach for the list we had), and forced to rely on mids and smalls, and apart from the Brownless last-gasp goal final, we were smashed in the other finals due to limited tall timber.

Anyway, coming back to the point I think I was making, if a Bailey Williams can break even with an (allegedly) out-of-form/injured/ill Curnow, we MIGHT be able to pull off some sort of miracle. And that's because our coach is Luke Beveridge, and not Alan Joyce.

And, um, yeah, that's all I've got...

But I want to believe. I so, so want to believe.

Come on Saltwater lads, show us a backs-to-the-wall spirited fight, like the Prince Imperials of old, the 'Scray, the Scraggers, the 54 shop-early Bulldogs, the 2016 handball-happy never-say-die Bevo's (and Murph's and Easton's) Bullgods.

Woof, woof, ****ing WOOF!!!

I'm not at all sure what you were talking about there gj79 but it seemed to be a pleasant mixture of 20th century nostalgia, woofs and "I'm going to the game".

It brightened up a slow thread tonight so I gave it a like.

 

[Golden_6]

I actually can’t believe our legitimate plan of attack for this game is to have Buku play on Curnow and not bring in any additional support.

Busslinger & Keath are literally right there. Keath could have been brought in to play on McKay and task Lobb with the role of assisting the aerial defence. It’s a staggering decision.

Playing McNeil and the continual protection of Gallagher are closely followed as ridiculous decisions. Neither are capable of producing performances to help us win games (right now).

 

[geoffjennings79]

I'm not at all sure what you were talking about there gj79 but it seemed to be a pleasant mixture of 20th century nostalgia, woofs and "I'm going to the game".

It brightened up a slow thread tonight so I gave it a like.

Thanks for summarising my diatribe in a single sentence dw!

I think there was a thought there that got lost while trying to simultaneously write a post and dry dishes! So the rambling result possibly confirms multi-tasking is beyond mere males!

 

[dogwatch]

A few observations:

Happy to see Weightman in. With a suspected groin strain (his not mine) I was expecting he'd be out for 3-4 weeks. I just hope he's ready. He is a point of difference in our forward line (different in that he scores goals) and we really missed him last week.

No real objection to Poulter coming in. It's only tinkering at the edges with our 22nd or 23rd best player after all. His advantage is that he is young (still only 21) so he may have improvement left in him, and he is tall and can run. His biggest weakness seems to be playing in traffic. Poor evasive skills. He needs to play in the open spaces. So if he's not in the vest let's hope he lines up on the wing. I don't know where else we could successfully play him. (Surprise me, Bevo!)

Like most other people I can't see how we don't get murdered by Carlton's tall forwards. Maybe a slight chance if Curnow really is a late scratching. Yet this is one of those games where Bevo is just as likely to pull off some outrageous moves that quell Carlton's forwards enough for us to get over the line. I have no idea what those moves will be so I wait in eager anticipation. A genuine test for Lobb tomorrow. One way or another this game is likely to tell us how good a defender he's really going to be.

Curnow playing injured and in bad form? I'll believe it when he's a withdrawal. He has kicked 46 goals from 16 games at nearly 3 goals a game this year. Only just behind his 81 goals from 26 games last year. His career average is 2.14 goals/gm so he's well ahead of that this year at nearly 3 a game.

 

[seaweed]

 

[Claudonious]

I'm making the trek this week, which will be closer to a 5+ hour round trip via VLine than my regular drive down the highway.

I think back to Alan Joyce in 1995(?) choosing to start Leon Cameron

Leon Cameron

Age

51

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

20.8

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.8

3star

at chb on Wayne Carey at VUWO. As they lined up for the opening bounce, we saw the '8' on his jumper, and assumed it was Sedat Sir, which was concerning enough (no offence to Sedat, but he wasn't in Carey's league, but from memory we had limited options at the time). Then we realised it WAS Leon!

It actually wasn't as bad as it seemed, as an individual contest for a while. Cameron played out in front of Carey, had some early wins intercepting marks and rebounding. Eventually though, after finding other avenues to score, a 6-goal-ish 1/4 time lead to North was beyond us, even though we hung in there. From memory Joyce eventually conceded and moved Cameron away. I think Carey actually got BOG and/or 3 Brownlow votes for the latter part of his game (opposed by Sir or Standfield).

It was an interesting tactic though, and not something Carey or Pagan expected, but also relied on our mids creating pressure on North CB clearances so Cameron didn't have to compete with Carey in the air. Joyce's 2 finals series with us were notorious for most of our talls being unavailable both years (not his fault, even if he was ultimately the wrong choice as coach for the list we had), and forced to rely on mids and smalls, and apart from the Brownless last-gasp goal final, we were smashed in the other finals due to limited tall timber.

Anyway, coming back to the point I think I was making, if a Bailey Williams can break even with an (allegedly) out-of-form/injured/ill Curnow, we MIGHT be able to pull off some sort of miracle. And that's because our coach is Luke Beveridge, and not Alan Joyce.

And, um, yeah, that's all I've got...

But I want to believe. I so, so want to believe.

Come on Saltwater lads, show us a backs-to-the-wall spirited fight, like the Prince Imperials of old, the 'Scray, the Scraggers, the 54 shop-early Bulldogs, the 2016 handball-happy never-say-die Bevo's (and Murph's and Easton's) Bullgods.

Woof, woof, ****ing WOOF!!!

Round 19 2000.A bunch of guns out and we went to princes park and beat Carlton.Garlick kicked 6.backs against the wall, anything can happen


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[adogsfan5]

It’s round 17.. and our backline consists of an ex fwd/ruckman, coffield for his third game of the season, an out of form Khamis, a wingman to take Curnow and a 33 year old Duryea.

Yay.

 

[fred cook]

It’s round 17.. and our backline consists of an ex fwd/ruckman, coffield for his third game of the season, an out of form Khamis, a wingman to take Curnow and a 33 year old Duryea.

Yay.

I don't think even Dr Phil could create anything positive about the above data

 

[AJARWA]

Round 21 2000.A bunch of guns out and we went to princes park and beat Carlton.Garlick kicked 6.backs against the wall, anything can happen


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

I like your attitude. Can't help but feel though that this team is not a backs to the wall, get up off the canvas kind of team. But you never can tell what this group will produce, that's for sure.

 

[AJARWA]

I'm making the trek this week, which will be closer to a 5+ hour round trip via VLine than my regular drive down the highway.

I think back to Alan Joyce in 1995(?) choosing to start Leon Cameron at chb on Wayne Carey at VUWO. As they lined up for the opening bounce, we saw the '8' on his jumper, and assumed it was Sedat Sir, which was concerning enough (no offence to Sedat, but he wasn't in Carey's league, but from memory we had limited options at the time). Then we realised it WAS Leon!

It actually wasn't as bad as it seemed, as an individual contest for a while. Cameron played out in front of Carey, had some early wins intercepting marks and rebounding. Eventually though, after finding other avenues to score, a 6-goal-ish 1/4 time lead to North was beyond us, even though we hung in there. From memory Joyce eventually conceded and moved Cameron away. I think Carey actually got BOG and/or 3 Brownlow votes for the latter part of his game (opposed by Sir or Standfield).

It was an interesting tactic though, and not something Carey or Pagan expected, but also relied on our mids creating pressure on North CB clearances so Cameron didn't have to compete with Carey in the air. Joyce's 2 finals series with us were notorious for most of our talls being unavailable both years (not his fault, even if he was ultimately the wrong choice as coach for the list we had), and forced to rely on mids and smalls, and apart from the Brownless last-gasp goal final, we were smashed in the other finals due to limited tall timber.

Anyway, coming back to the point I think I was making, if a Bailey Williams can break even with an (allegedly) out-of-form/injured/ill Curnow, we MIGHT be able to pull off some sort of miracle. And that's because our coach is Luke Beveridge, and not Alan Joyce.

And, um, yeah, that's all I've got...

But I want to believe. I so, so want to believe.

Come on Saltwater lads, show us a backs-to-the-wall spirited fight, like the Prince Imperials of old, the 'Scray, the Scraggers, the 54 shop-early Bulldogs, the 2016 handball-happy never-say-die Bevo's (and Murph's and Easton's) Bullgods.

Woof, woof, ****ing WOOF!!!

Love these anecdotes. I remember some of those finals well. Out of interest, who was the better choice for coach at the time?

 

[Golden_6]

Also how on earth was not one player dropped after that shocking performance?

 

[W W Biscuit]

On August 30th, 1947, Fred Fanning kicked 18 goals for Melbourne. It's a VFL/AFL record that has stood for nearly 80 years. Let's hope that it's not finally broken on Saturday. Unless it's Marra or Cody. I'd be okay with that.

 

[scooter600x]

Rohan Smith

Rohan Smith

Age

51

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

11.9

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.2

3star

v Matthew Robram vibes

 

[geoffjennings79]

Love these anecdotes. I remember some of those finals well. Out of interest, who was the better choice for coach at the time?

Hard to remember the other candidates. Gordon had decided after two rounds in 1994 (two!) that Wheeler was not the coach to take us forward. That's Terry Wheeler, who'd taken on the job of a club on the brink of being 'merged ' at the end of 89, got us into a prelim by 92, then had a middling season in 93 to miss finals. Started 94 by beating 93 second bottom Richmond by 2 points, then belted by fellow 93 mid-table finishers Geelong by 88 points.

Joyce was available, Gordon felt that 4 seasons and 2 games was enough for Wheeler! Admittedly Joyce had recently coached Hawks to a flag when Jeans stepped down temporarily, but a drover's dog could have coached that team to a flag.

Wheeler was very much a player's coach, Joyce was less friend/mentor, more hard-ar5e, but years later Brereton said Joyce's methods didn't endear him to his charges at Hawks either.

The club tried to throw nostalgia in there as well - Joyce's father Jim had played for Footscray in the early 1930s.

In answer to your question, I think the better choice for coach at the time was to stick with Wheeler. I think Gordon has expressed regret since about the way he handled that as President, Wheeler to his credit has never really expressed bitterness, remained a steadfast supporter of the club, and commentating for Ch7 in 1996, actually complimented Joyce for trying Jason Watts as a forward.

Off track, but Joyce was very bitter about the way he was replaced by Wallace late in 1996, and never really returned to the club as far as I am aware. This is in spite of himself offering to stand down at least twice after poor early losses in 96 (documented in "Year of the Dogs" doco). 1996 was a disaster tbh.

 

[JTCWBFC]

Curnow a chance for 10

 

[Zeno The Great]

Curnow a chance for 10

Massive chance to kick a bag.

Surely keath comes in for one of mc or Gallagher...then again surely that's too much common sense...so why am I even hoping for it

 

[geoffjennings79]

A few Blues posters seem convinced Curnow won't play, and TDeK is named forward for that reason. Even if that eventuates, hard to be optimistic, unless Bevo has some cunning plan that Blackadder would approve...

 

[bresker]

If we do happen to win this week, what to make of last week?

Someone on the main board said we are by far the hardest team to tip each week.
It's the inconsistency that infuriates.

Not that I believe we'll pull this off, but I'll only be mildly surprised if we do.

English will troll us by having a career best game or something.

 

[Fossie 32]

Hard to remember the other candidates. Gordon had decided after two rounds in 1994 (two!) that Wheeler was not the coach to take us forward. That's Terry Wheeler, who'd taken on the job of a club on the brink of being 'merged ' at the end of 89, got us into a prelim by 92, then had a middling season in 93 to miss finals. Started 94 by beating 93 second bottom Richmond by 2 points, then belted by fellow 93 mid-table finishers Geelong by 88 points.

Joyce was available, Gordon felt that 4 seasons and 2 games was enough for Wheeler! Admittedly Joyce had recently coached Hawks to a flag when Jeans stepped down temporarily, but a drover's dog could have coached that team to a flag.

Wheeler was very much a player's coach, Joyce was less friend/mentor, more hard-ar5e, but years later Brereton said Joyce's methods didn't endear him to his charges at Hawks either.

The club tried to throw nostalgia in there as well - Joyce's father Jim had played for Footscray in the early 1930s.

In answer to your question, I think the better choice for coach at the time was to stick with Wheeler. I think Gordon has expressed regret since about the way he handled that as President, Wheeler to his credit has never really expressed bitterness, remained a steadfast supporter of the club, and commentating for Ch7 in 1996, actually complimented Joyce for trying Jason Watts as a forward.

Off track, but Joyce was very bitter about the way he was replaced by Wallace late in 1996, and never really returned to the club as far as I am aware. This is in spite of himself offering to stand down at least twice after poor early losses in 96 (documented in "Year of the Dogs" doco). 1996 was a disaster tbh.

It was awesome how Jason Watts was our leading goalkicker for the year with 28 or something

 

[geoffjennings79]

It was awesome how Jason Watts was our leading goalkicker for the year with 28 or something

44
Was the high point of his career though, didn't fit into to Wallace's structure after that. Was the right man at the right time. Grant moved to CHB, Osborne broke his arm mid-season (home game at the G on a Friday night v North!).

Watts kicked most of his goals first half of 96 playing alongside Ossie though, as a bit of a foil. His tally dropped off after Osborne was injured, as it was just him and young Hargreaves manned by experienced defenders. Think he went back to Werribee after he was delisted? Was a popular club man while at Footscray though.

 

[cherrypie]

To me, it looks like we’ve picked a side to try kill Carlton with pace. It worked last season with JJ, Arthur Jones, Dale, Richards and Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

having excellent games rebounding.

Bramble, Dale, Treloar, Richards, Williams, Vandermeer, Weightman, West, McNeil, Poulter and Gallagher are all quick. Outside of a few exceptions, Carltons side is relatively slow and have shown a few times this year that they can struggle against sides with pace.

If we can stop McKay and Curnow from dominating in the air, we should be fine.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Look up all time worst backlines and this is what you'll find.

It's going to be a freakin massacre.

 

[Bulldog in Kiev]

I’m pretty optimistic each week, after last week and the line up this week, I picked Carlton in my tips.
Usually when that happens, we play well.
Even so, can’t see us not leaking goals defensively with so many outs and underperforming players kept in. Our injury record most seasons is pretty bad.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Poulter is still only 21. Hopefully he can show something.


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