Level-Headed Discussion Round 6

[jathanas]

Won't accuse you of making it up, just of clutching at straws

Even if these moves did happen they were very marginal and certainly not the ones that can be considered game changing.

Not looking for an argument, just wondering if there were any obvious moves that you believe would have influenced the outcome. I ask only because I didn't see anything obvious; I don't consider myself tactically astute.

I saw the end result as a combination of player errors and us running out of steam in the last quarter. Can't blame the coach for the players not continuing to play the way they did in the 3rd.

 

[jathanas]

When we were cut up in the 1st and 4th quarters we lacked the urgency to get on our bike and move, on both defence an offence. I have no issue with us playing the zone but we have to commit to it and Bucks needs to make sure the players are 100% all over it. We know zoning works, and works well in the current style of AFL but it requires the team to work hard to get to the spots they need to, run both ways, and commit to either impacting the contest or covering off defensively. We have really slow players when setting up the zone that just roll along with it and find themselves flat footed and in no mans land way too often. We look like we don't know how to play the zone at all.

We looked amazing in the 2nd and 3rd quarters because we ran, we played on, took the game on, worked hard into space to create options, and applied pressure to their ball carriers. Its fine to kick backwards and set up a switch but we hardly ever seem to get guys out in space doing that. As soon as West Coast switch they have blokes sprinting to space to be able to work the ball forwards. Our switches are just moving the ball to the other side of the ground and stopping or slowing down so we are in the exact same position but on the opposite side of the field.

Thats my rant over. Positives I thought were:
- The fight back. Showed we can put it together and match it with the better teams, we just need to for 4 quarters.
- Big Cox. Showed good aggression, competed in the air all day.
- Smith. Second game in and he racks up 29 touches. A bit shaky with his skills at times but I think that will clean up when he gets more comfortable playing at this level.
- Treloar. Tough and classy. Love him. Most disposals on the ground for both teams, and most tackles on the ground for both teams.
- Pressure in the 2nd and 3rd was how it should be for 4 quarters week in and week out. Thats the pressure we were applying when we were at our best last season, it disappeared some time late last season and hasn't come back. We clearly still have it in us, it needs to become something we live and breathe by again.

^ This 1 million times.

 

[GreekLunatic]

When's the last time we played 4 quarters

 

[PieBeast]

Not looking for an argument, just wondering if there were any obvious moves that you believe would have influenced the outcome. I ask only because I didn't see anything obvious; I don't consider myself tactically astute.

I saw the end result as a combination of player errors and us running out of steam in the last quarter. Can't blame the coach for the players not continuing to play the way they did in the 3rd.

Fas or/and Langdon into the guts, Reid to Kennedy, Sidey into the forward line or half back etc etc

Not saying we'd get up but it sure beats doing nothing and thinking we're still in the game even though it was only for their accuracy.

 

[PicaBoo]

Disappointing last qtr then again with their woeful kicking it could have been worse earlier on.
More of the same stupid errors on key moments keep costing us. Sidebottom miskicks in fwd 50, turnover, goal and suddenly we are 3 goals behind instead of catching up.
Liked Cox and Smith. Certainly something to work with. Had expected more of Broomy though.

 

[jathanas]

Fas or/and Langdon into the guts, Reid to Kennedy, Sidey into the forward line or half back etc etc

Not saying we'd get up but it sure beats doing nothing and thinking we're still in the game even though it was only for their accuracy.

I saw the writing on the wall after Langdon got injured, the Frost clanger was the final nail on the coffin. It demoralised the team - they fell apart. That point of the game called for on-field leadership IMO; which I find we're a little short on.

The will power / discipline to execute a 4 quarter effort relies on mental strength and resolve. That's what we lacked today.

I won't blame the fade out on the coach, but I agree he has not always responded well to game day challenges.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I posted a whole thing on the list in game autopsy.

Simply, we just do not have enough elite players.
Elite depth makes a side super for an era ie wins a couple of flags

We miss Swan soooooooo much, and to think we thought he'd okay forward because we have this great engine room.
We over rate our list because we have a huge depth of medium level talent - just not enough elite.
Our players arnt stars who take a game and control it.
Pendlebury yes, Swan yes
Then getting there Treloar.
The rest are not there, some may get there.
De Goey and Moore? But they are not there yer, not by a stretch.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

That 5 minute patch just before half time is probably a better example of it.

We had the momentum and were a goal or two away from getting right back in the contest yet refused to play with any sense of flair.
Either due to fear of burning the pill or due to coach's instruction.

Because there is way too much medium level talent and not enough elite in the team.
Oh, and we lack mature leadership on field as well.

 

[HeavyPop]

Got back into it when we started to win the ball in close. No surprise they only kicked 2 goals and our backline looked better in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when the pressure on the WC ball carriers intensified down the field. 61 I50s to 33 tells the story though, which is why the constant criticism of our backline is annoying.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Got back into it when we started to win the ball in close. No surprise they only kicked 2 goals and our backline looked better in the 2nd and 3rd quarters when the pressure on the WC ball carriers intensified down the field. 61 I50s to 33 tells the story though, which is why the constant criticism of our backline is annoying.

Yes.
We win the ball in the middle, back line has less pressure, looks a whole lot better.
They win the ball, then use it well, suddenly massive pressure, backline looks terrible.

Win the ball!
Use it well!
Go back to first point, win the ball!

 

[bucksisbest]

Some patches of decent footy, but largely and overall another unacceptable and humiliating loss.

The decent footy we played should really be our baseline coming into this year, but a dysfunctional football department and a below par football team, means some supporters are congratulating a rare period of fluent engaged play, rather than it be an expectation.

The first and last quarters were all time bad, absolutely uncompetitive rot.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

First, let me state , I was an admirer of Nathan Buckley as a Collingwood player.
Great kick, fantastic in preparation, disciplined individual, immaculate requirement dietary fulfilled.
As an individual , Buckley is a massive failure in engaging those around him, happened when he played, happening now as our coach.
Paul Williams left because of his arrogance, Mick McGuane belted him after the West Coast Game, when a young upstart wearing the No, 5 remonstrated when a legend of our Club and 1990 Premiership star spilt a mark, and played out his career at Carlscum. Now as a coach he cannot and will never be able to gell people together who have a diverse opinion and an outlook which differs from his own inhibited mindset. Heath Shaw, Heritier Lumumba, Dale Thomas , Leon Davis , can`t be bothered with anymore.
This is your team now. Muppets and puppets in tune
Since you have taken over our Premiership side
2012 4th
2013 6th
2014 11th
2015 12th
2016 ?
Slide by Slide with Bucks

The spat with Williams is bullshit. He remonstrated with McGuane? Haven't heard that one.

 

[jmac70]

Has anyone actually seen a mod tonight? The number of trolls posting after loses is getting beyond a joke.

 

[Magpie Girl]

Has anyone actually seen a mod tonight? The number of trolls posting after loses is getting beyond a joke.

the mods are here, busy as usual, trying to keep up

 

[jmac70]

the mods are here, busy as usual, trying to keep up

Time to get the ban hammer out MG. Too many 'newbies' sticking the knives in.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

When's the last time we played 4 quarters

2011 NAB cup.

I'm actually serious.

 

[Magpie Girl]

A reminder everyone that this is the 'level headed discussion'
Please be respectful of that.

If you want to bag Bucks and the team, and the Club and anything else you can think of, then please take it elsewhere.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Fas or/and Langdon into the guts, Reid to Kennedy, Sidey into the forward line or half back etc etc

Not saying we'd get up but it sure beats doing nothing and thinking we're still in the game even though it was only for their accuracy.

Brown's main issue with Kennedy was strength, not pace. Reid or frost would've made it worse.

A loose playing in front of the deeper forward (Kennedy or Darling) would've been much mor effictive. Only thing is our options would've been an undersized Sinclair, Langdon who had alreadtpy shirked multiple marking contests in the first half or Toovey who was already getting torched by Lecca. Maybe Sinclair to LeCras and Toovey into the space as a seventh defender was the best go. I don't know.

 

[SuperSub17]

People are actually up in arms about that result?

West Coast are just about unbeatable over there. They train at the ground, it suits their press perfectly and they routinely get heavy assistance with the officiating. Routinely they just ski all over weak teams - already this year they've beaten Brisbane and Richmond by 60+, both of whom were completely out of the contest by the second quarter.

Last year at Subi:
-Beat Hawthorn by 32 (50 up at 3QT)
-Beat St Kilda by 95
-Beat Bulldogs by 77
-Lost to Hawthorn by 14
-Beat Sydney by 52
-Beat Adelaide by 56
-Beat Essendon by 50
-Beat Geelong by 56
-Beat Gold Coast by 92
-Beat GWS by 87
-Beat Carlton by 69

So from 11 games they won 10 - 9 by 50+, the other by 32 vs Hawthorn. Even top four contenders routinely got belted.

The fact that we weren't out of the game until the last quarter (once we were down two players) is a good sign considering what they've done to other sides over there. Even though it amounts to a 10-goal loss, and we shouldn't be satisfied with that given there were still some basic errors made, surely we can take some heart from that given we didn't just roll over and die after quarter time.

 

[Good_Old]

A reminder everyone that this is the 'level headed discussion'
Please be respectful of that.

If you want to bag Bucks and the team, and the Club and anything else you can think of, then please take it elsewhere.

Then shouldn't the thread be named "positives only, no critical opinions allowed"?

Note: critical opinions not critical thinking.

 

[PicaBoo]

I posted a whole thing on the list in game autopsy.
Simply, we just do not have enough elite players.
Elite depth makes a side super for an era ie wins a couple of flags
We miss Swan soooooooo much, and to think we thought he'd okay forward because we have this great engine room.
We over rate our list because we have a huge depth of medium level talent - just not enough elite.
Our players arnt stars who take a game and control it.
Pendlebury yes, Swan yes
Then getting there Treloar.
The rest are not there, some may get there.
De Goey and Moore? But they are not there yer, not by a stretch.

Because there is way too much medium level talent and not enough elite in the team.
Oh, and we lack mature leadership on field as well.

Correct observation but not surprising given the circumstances.
We were without Williams, Adams, Varcoe, Swan, Elliott. By my count that is 4 or 5 from our top 10 MIA.
And apart from Elliott, I would expect the other 4 to lead from the front. Not sure how many we could put in the elite bracket but it does take a reasonable chunk out of our ability to bounce back and take control of the game.

 

[Chronz]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Pendles after HT? Was upto 20 disposals then only had 8 more after that.

 

[Seedsfan]

I don't like our propensity to fall away when we know the game is lost but for mine the fact we give up 5 goal start so regularly and we look so slow and disinterested in the first quarter is our big problem. Our first quarter lost us the game today like it did against the Dee's, someone needs to fire the boys up pre game

 

[Kappa]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Pendles after HT? Was upto 20 disposals then only had 8 more after that.

I want to know what's happened to Pendles this season, surely injury can't be any excuse every game or they'd rest him... played about 1 or 2 good games this year, very un-Pendles like.

If he was carrying a serious injury they'd rest him against the Eagles

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Sigh....this type of thread was a really good idea, sadly like so many others, destroyed by the destroyers