List Mgmt. List Management 2017 -Who Stays, Who Goes?

[Magus]

Sam Gray just keeps improving. Can't ask anymore of him than that.

 

[dirty2]

Sam Gray just keeps improving. Can't ask anymore of him than that.

Well you could.... stop missing goals in the goal square....

 

[philthy05]

I’m slightly aghast that anyone could think Amon is best 22 with a full kit to choose from. Not sure he’s even best 25-26

Hard to see Amon slotting in with Rockliff and Motlop. Depth player unless he absolutely grabs his chances at AFL level....Especially with Westhoff playing the wing role more often.....

Yeah, I’m just completely biased against Amon. He’s slow, soft and a very poor kick for someone with “good skills”. Just not a fan.

Yeah, I don't see the Amon hype myself personally. He has glimpses that tease me, but meh.

I am same. Amon does not get enough of the ball and either pin points passes or it explodes off the side of the boot on the full....

Some people are so blinded by their views they can't see what is in front of them


Has improved every single year on the list

Is fast

Averaged 19 disposals a game this year , not bad for a 22yr old with around 2 dozen games behind him but his last four games of the year were 21,22,24,24. That is an excellent return for an outside mid.

Name better kicks in our side that play centre or forward of centre?

I would only have Polec, wingard (debatable) westhoff (debatable) and the incoming watts and Motlop.

 

[PJ Power]

The criticisms of Sam Gray and Amon are way over the top.

Amon is improving steadily, and is a pretty decent first 22 player. His final, while not as good from a kicking perspective as we would expect, was by no means a disgrace. He's coming along well and has exceeded my expectations to this point.

Sam Gray has just finished 7th in our B&F, 3rd in our goal kicking, and has just averaged more than a goal per game and 18 disposals in his last season, playing a difficult role. Again, he is comfortably in our best 25 players, and has shown improvement at AFL level. He recognises that he needs to improve his goal conversion, and I think that unlike others in our squad, he has the skill level to do this.

Amon and Sam Gray shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion of who we let go.

 

[philthy05]

Sam Gray just keeps improving. Can't ask anymore of him than that.

So so

Had those ultra mega ball winning beast mode games then never showed that again.

Floundered around in a forward/mid position for ages before building some steady form in the second half of the year. If we gave half our guys the chance to show something we have given gray i think they would have shown steady improvement as well.

Gray has been lucky his position is vital , and with monfries failing to recapture even a slight hint of form he had like zero challengers for it.

The inclusion of watts and Motlop means gray is the most vulnerable he has ever been.

 

[Magus]

So so

Had those ultra mega ball winning beast mode games then never showed that again.

Floundered around in a forward/mid position for ages before building some steady form in the second half of the year. If we gave half our guys the chance to show something we have given gray i think they would have shown steady improvement as well.

Gray has been lucky his position is vital , and with monfries failing to recapture even a slight hint of form he had like zero challengers for it.

The inclusion of watts and Motlop means gray is the most vulnerable he has ever been.

Hinkley admitted he was not a forward after his breakout in 2015 but he's been put there again anyway. He's been played out of his natural position and done everything that's been asked of him.

Sure he's not the most skilful player and needs to improve his accuracy but that doesn't mean he hasn't improved. Obviously those high profile free agents are going to be given priority in the forward line but I have no doubts that Sam will do everything he can to keep his spot.

 

[NEGAN]

Some people are so blinded by their views they can't see what is in front of them


Has improved every single year on the list

Is fast

Averaged 19 disposals a game this year , not bad for a 22yr old with around 2 dozen games behind him but his last four games of the year were 21,22,24,24. That is an excellent return for an outside mid.

Name better kicks in our side that play centre or forward of centre?

I would only have Polec, wingard (debatable) westhoff (debatable) and the incoming watts and Motlop.

on a side note I have never hated on Sam Gray and probably never will but Amon if you take what I said as "hate" well...


Yeah probably could say the same for Young Lobbe Moore Banner Thomas Achee etc etc at some stage of their career.

Some players make good impact eg. Houston some don't

The whole Amon better disposal thing has as much weight as Kraks elite foot skills.

 

[wingardfreak]

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Visenfest]

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

wingardfreak reporting for duty.

 

[Kingfish73]

The criticisms of Sam Gray and Amon are way over the top.

Amon is improving steadily, and is a pretty decent first 22 player. His final, while not as good from a kicking perspective as we would expect, was by no means a disgrace. He's coming along well and has exceeded my expectations to this point.

Sam Gray has just finished 7th in our B&F, 3rd in our goal kicking, and has just averaged more than a goal per game and 18 disposals in his last season, playing a difficult role. Again, he is comfortably in our best 25 players, and has shown improvement at AFL level. He recognises that he needs to improve his goal conversion, and I think that unlike others in our squad, he has the skill level to do this.

Amon and Sam Gray shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion of who we let go.

In S Gray corner for sure. Amon does not obtain enough possessions for a wingman / link man. Not saying let go just saying depth player

 

[philthy05]

In S Gray corner for sure. Amon does not obtain enough possessions for a wingman / link man. Not saying let go just saying depth player

So 19 disposals and trending upwards isnt enough?

What's a pass mark then?

He averaged closer to 23 possies 2nd half of the year.

How many outside mids average above that? How many of them are 22 or under ?

That's a very short list my friend. Very very short.

 

[Kingfish73]

So 19 disposals and trending upwards isnt enough?

What's a pass mark then?

He averaged closer to 23 possies 2nd half of the year.

How many outside mids average above that? How many of them are 22 or under ?

That's a very short list my friend. Very very short.

Interesting to differentiate stats v quality teams and teams we pumped. Twist stats anyway you like. I dont watch many port games and say "gee Amon was a influential player today".

 

[philthy05]

In S Gray corner for sure. Amon does not obtain enough possessions for a wingman / link man. Not saying let go just saying depth player

Haha

I just looked at the afl disposals list and wingmen 25 and under with 23 possies or more are Merrett , Whitfield , Scully and brad hill. The last two are closer to 26 than Amons 22. They're pretty much all early early picks with half that group being pick 1!

23 possies a game would put you at 75th in the league. Roughly 4 players per a team.

Polec averaged 22 touches a game, 3 more touches than amons year after 3 extra seasons ahead. Last year Polec averaged 19 touches a game at the age of 24.

Amon was 9th on ports list for disposals this season. 9th.

Of players under 25 he was 3rd!!!!



So again I'll ask, what the hell is your benchmark for disposals then????

As I've said before , some peoples views are coloured by personal thoughts of a player rather than the truth backed up by facts.

 

[Kingfish73]

Haha

I just looked at the afl disposals list and wingmen 25 and under with 23 possies or more are Merrett , Whitfield , Scully and brad hill. The last two are closer to 26 than Amons 22. They're pretty much all early early picks with half that group being pick 1!

23 possies a game would put you at 75th in the league. Roughly 4 players per a team.

Polec averaged 22 touches a game, 3 more touches than amons year after 3 extra seasons ahead. Last year Polec averaged 19 touches a game at the age of 24.

Amon was 9th on ports list for disposals this season. 9th.

Of players under 25 he was 3rd!!!!



So again I'll ask, what the hell is your benchmark for disposals then????

As I've said before , some peoples views are coloured by personal thoughts of a player rather than the truth backed up by facts.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2549
Check out the tough games.

 

[Hellgood]

It's hard to say as the frustration of that pitiful opening term to the elim final was blinding to all logic and reasoning in my head, but Amon was one guy who I felt showed up to play in that quarter.

 

[Kingfish73]

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2549
Check out the tough games.

And to end this....i am not saying let him go ffs. Just he will have to take his chances next year with competition. Point ended!

 

[philthy05]

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=2549
Check out the tough games.

1. That website is rubbish. How many games was that compiled from ? Why is 2 seasons ago when he was a fresh 19yr old 3 Rnd draft pick barely getting games or gametime significant ? What games are included in those stats ?

2. Newsflash . 22 yr old Outside mid gets less of the ball when port loses games to good opponents

**** me. If your standard for a pass mark for an outside mid is +20 possessions in a loss against good oppo I'm not sure you rate anyone in this league

Wanna have a stab at how many outside mids under the age of 23 hit their disposal averages (over 20 touches) in losses?

I reckon that is about 1-2 kids and collectively happened rarely. Like ultra rarely.

We've already established your pass mark for Amon is entirely unreasonable a long time ago.

 

[Kingfish73]

1. That website is rubbish. How many games was that compiled from ? Why is 2 seasons ago when he was a fresh 19yr old 3 Rnd draft pick barely getting games or gametime significant ? What games are included in those stats ?

2. Newsflash . 22 yr old Outside mid gets less of the ball when port loses games to good opponents

**** me. If your standard for a pass mark for an outside mid is +20 possessions in a loss against good oppo I'm not sure you rate anyone in this league

Wanna have a stab at how many outside mids under the age of 23 hit their disposal averages (over 20 touches) in losses?

I reckon that is about 1-2 kids and collectively happened rarely. Like ultra rarely.

We've already established your pass mark for Amon is entirely unreasonable a long time ago.

I will buy a Karl Amon flag then and a matching sticker for my car. Lets bookmark and chat end of 2018, yeah? And i hope i am wrong. But chill my friend. Deep breath

 

[philthy05]

I will buy a Karl Amon flag then and a matching sticker for my car. Lets bookmark and chat end of 2018, yeah? And i hope i am wrong. But chill my friend. Deep breath

Lol

Don't try to pass me off as hysterical because I'm passionate and willing to debate.

I'm not asking you join the Amon fan club , just that you (and the others here constantly posting negative opinions of amons performance) reassess what you are looking at and what the benchmarks are.

I have no idea how highly Hinkley rates Amon , or how Hinkley will structure the side going forward but I do know that expecting a 22yr old outside mid to have 23+ possies a game as a pass mark is ridiculously high benchmark that almost no players in the afl fulfill.

 

[Chewy316]

The criticisms of Sam Gray and Amon are way over the top.

Amon is improving steadily, and is a pretty decent first 22 player. His final, while not as good from a kicking perspective as we would expect, was by no means a disgrace. He's coming along well and has exceeded my expectations to this point.

Sam Gray has just finished 7th in our B&F, 3rd in our goal kicking, and has just averaged more than a goal per game and 18 disposals in his last season, playing a difficult role. Again, he is comfortably in our best 25 players, and has shown improvement at AFL level. He recognises that he needs to improve his goal conversion, and I think that unlike others in our squad, he has the skill level to do this.

Amon and Sam Gray shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion of who we let go.

I agree on both counts. However, I think there is a lot of merit in discussing whether Amon is in the best 22. Sam Gray for me is a lock for best 22 in 2018. As for Amon, I wouldn't have him in my top 25. Bringing in both Motlop and Watts will shift Amon further down the pecking order in our side.

 

[philthy05]

I agree on both counts. However, I think there is a lot of merit in discussing whether Amon is in the best 22. Sam Gray for me is a lock for best 22 in 2018. As for Amon, I wouldn't have him in my top 25. Bringing in both Motlop and Watts will shift Amon further down the pecking order in our side.

In what way does watts affect picking an outside mid?

Watts role is far more closely linked to the role s gray plays

Motlop could be seen as an In for Amon but far more likely he is in for the impey/matty White role.

 

[G3TWOTYAD3S3RV]

In what way does watts affect picking an outside mid?

Watts role is far more closely linked to the role s gray plays

Motlop could be seen as an In for Amon but far more likely he is in for the impey/matty White role.

No Motlop is an in for Impey.

 

[Schulzenfest]

So 19 disposals and trending upwards isnt enough?

What's a pass mark then?

He averaged closer to 23 possies 2nd half of the year.

How many outside mids average above that? How many of them are 22 or under ?

Amon’s disposal count is roughly equivalent to Billy Hartung. Lewis Taylor. Sam Colquhoun last time he played for us.

Disposal counts aren’t everything. Especially not for pure outside players.

 

[VineValerian]

In what way does watts affect picking an outside mid?

Watts role is far more closely linked to the role s gray plays

Motlop could be seen as an In for Amon but far more likely he is in for the impey/matty White role.

Gray is a small, nippy, pressure forward who can kick the odd goal or two. And can pinch hit un the midfield as a small.

Watts is a roaming tall that links front and back halves, delivers inside 50, jags the odd clunk mark and goal. Pinch hits in ruck and down back.

Call me simple (most people do ) but couldn't be any more dissimilar.

Watts more like Hoff.

 

[philthy05]

Amon’s disposal count is roughly equivalent to Billy Hartung. Lewis Taylor. Sam Colquhoun last time he played for us.

Disposal counts aren’t everything. Especially not for pure outside players.

Nothing wrong with hartungs ability to find the ball. It's the fact he can be 100m clear of an opponent and chooses to chip a 25m sideways kick.

Point is people are saying Amon doesn't get enough of the ball. They are fairly off the mark.