List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[Arr0w]

Why would we agree to triggers for a guy who would have had zero leverage when negotiating?

Thats how contracts work, base salary and a decent back up to injuries

 

[windows1]

If only Martin could stay fit for a season, that forward line would transform to another level

If Pies could get Elliot closer to right why can’t we get Martin right? Elliot missed a stack of footy but in recent years has played more than he’s missed.

 

[Dramoth]

The reason he isn't in the side would be the 2hr45m tape of stuff he doesn't do right.....

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We rate Cerra why?

Is it because he's a better player? Or because he's been developed better? Or because we snagged him from a better side? Is it because he's more experienced?

Did people complain this year about Cerra being soft? Couldn't kick? Couldn't tackle? We've all seen Cerra do exactly the same things as Dow... but he gets a pass why? We've seen him fumble... we've seen him miss targets... but he's a good player right.

I'm sure we could roll out a 5 hour tape of Cerra stuffing things up badly if we wanted to. Because I mean 62 clangers in 18 games this year... at 3.44/game. As for the rest of the Fab 5... Matt Kennedy - 17 games, 55 clangers. Patrick Cripps - 21 games, 106 clangers. Sam Walsh - 20 games, 83. clangers. George Hewett - 15 games, 42 clangers.

People have whipping boys and it takes a lot to change their minds. Carrots... Italian for turnover. Couldn't kick over a jam tin... delist him... drop him next week. Then something clicked for him and he went from scapegoat to club legend. It's just public perception. People would see the shit things the player did, and blame them for the losses or even have a shot at them because they did something that cost us a goal in a win.

This year, I reckon that LOB has broken even in terms of popular opinion. People could see the progress he's made this year under the new coaches. Yes he does some dumb things at time. This year... 19 games... 52 clangers. Played an average of about 80% game time during those 19 games.

Dow was taken at 3, Cerra at 5, LOB at 10. Dow and LOB are both around 60 games played, Cerra is at 94. Is it the 34 extra games experience that makes him a better player? The added first team development? Better coaches? Or is it the confidence gained from having coaches that trust you to do the job and send you out there... and don't drop you if you make a mistake.

 

[Arr0w]

If Pies could get Elliot closer to right why can’t we get Martin right? Elliot missed a stack of footy but in recent years has played more than he’s missed.

Unsure if the injuries are exactly the same.

Mentioned before the bye that we can't continue to carry so many injury prone types, Martin, Gov, OMac, Cuners, Williams

Big off season, will be even bigger end of next year

 

[JustaBattler]

If you showed that 15m of 2021 highlights to people, they'd call him a somewhat balanced midfielder. It's all there.

It's 70% system & tactics, 20% confidence, 10% cardio.

Criticising a game plan that despite so many outs sees Carlton as being genuinely competitive and but for the same type of nonfootball brain players as Dow- the team should be playing finals - I mean losing to both a fully manned Melbourne ( sans Hewett and Kennedy) in the last minute and then losing to a fully manned Collingwood - again in the last minute with all of Walsh/Hewett and Kennedy out - sorry I'm not interested in hearing how dumb Voss and Co are - they are MASSIVE cover achievers with the injury hands they have been dealt all year.

but for the sake of discussion - lets pretend your views have merit...so

Name a team that would play Dow as a starting mid Jim. Name a system that is so different to Carlton's that it would benefit from Dow's abilities and traits and the discussion becomes a tad more grounded.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

If we did get him where would it leave jsos
He nearly wouldn't get a game

We’ll I’d say Owies and Martins spots would be up for grabs for a start.
We don’t need all of Durdin, Mots and Owies for a start and Martin is perennially injured.
In an ideal world I‘d have Harry, Charlie, Gunston, Martin, Durds and Mots as our starting 6.
With a fully fit squad JSOS would be fringe best 22, and I’m one of his biggest fans, but we need to be realistic.

 

[windows1]

Doc polled well in coaches votes in the final 2 games as a mid.

With Boyd, Newman, Williams, Stocker and Saad it’s an open question going into next year as to where they play Doc.

 

[Benaly28]

We need another forward to contribute 25-35 goals a year

We do,he’s been injured for awhile now.


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[Benaly28]

At this rate, be prepared to say adios to a few players;

Ed Curnow,
Parks,
OMac,
Williamson,
Fogarty,
Newnes (delisted and rookied perhaps).

Trade bait in my view:
Dow,
Stocker,
LOB,
Setterfield,
Fisher,
Plowman

For the love of God,Zac Fisher will NOT and SHOULD not be traded.

He is different to what we have in our side.provides X factor,speed and finished 4th on our goal kicking.

What more would like him to do?

Curiously why do you think he needs to be traded?







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[Benaly28]

Doc polled well in coaches votes in the final 2 games as a mid.

With Boyd, Newman, Williams, Stocker and Saad it’s an open question going into next year as to where they play Doc.

Mid.

We have plenty of cover across half back.


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[carlton_99]

Mid.

We have plenty of cover across half back.


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We have Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy in the mid. Guess it could work if we push one or two to a wing...

 

[mjonc43]

I hear you on this but I felt that Durdin was being gifted games late in the season. If Breust is in our team then I want Durdin and Honey to knock the door down taking that spot off him. They need to earn it.

No doubt he was. Remember it was his first AFL season. Like Jessie, a big preseason and 25-30 goals each is achievable.

Honey had an Injury interrupted season. He is my big hope as the half forward, Breust type.


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[Kreuuuzeurns]

We have Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy in the mid. Guess it could work if we push one or two to a wing...

Doc on ball, Walsh to the wing, Setterfield and Kennedy to battle it out for the 5th spot.

Hewett to a back pocket is an option. He played some decent football in defence at Sydney. Wouldn’t go down that path but we are stacked through the middle.

 

[katmanblue]

21 games in 2016 and 22 games in 2017 would suggest otherwise.

Granted it's a fair while back. But it can happen and could happen again. Would solve a lot of problems for us if it did.

Calf injuries become less frequent with age, right?

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[carlton_99]

Doc on ball, Walsh to the wing, Setterfield and Kennedy to battle it out for the 5th spot.

Hewett to a back pocket is an option. He played some decent football in defence at Sydney. Wouldn’t go down that path but we are stacked through the middle.

I wouldn't touch Hewett. Straight in the guts. Was phenomenal in 2022 as a defensive midfielder. Happy to have Walsh on the wing but think this is an unpopular opinion

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I wouldn't touch Hewett. Straight in the guts. Was phenomenal in 2022 as a defensive midfielder. Happy to have Walsh on the wing but think this is an unpopular opinion

Yeah I’m quite happy with Hewett in the guts. Hopefully he can get over these injury issues.

 

[rp84]

Doc polled well in coaches votes in the final 2 games as a mid.

With Boyd, Newman, Williams, Stocker and Saad it’s an open question going into next year as to where they play Doc.

Weirdly, after only a couple games I think Boyd is comfortably our best pure small defender.

Suspect he is our best kick out of the bunch too but butchered a few early with nerves. Not that there is much competition..I love Doc and Saad but kicking is not their strength (though Saad was probably better this year in general than past years). Stocker is supposed to be an elite kick but probably the worst at the club at the moment. Haven't seen a player nearly miss his own boot streaming out of defence as much as him.

I think Boyd, when we have best 22 playing, could be potentially be an elite small defender.

 

[Bluey19]

Ranks elite this year for contested possession rate, 1%’s and 1v1’s. Above average for disposal efficiency, kick efficiency, intercept possessions, intercept marks, and spoils.
An area without doubt for improvement is tackles and pressure acts.
I agree that at times he tries to bite off more than he can chew with some decision making but how much of that is what they are coached to do.
That said, appreciate and respect your view (particularly given you base it on live viewing not TV), it’d be boring if we all agreed on everything!!

You can not watch a game that Carlton plays and think Plowman is passable as an AFL footballer.

 

[Bluey19]

If we did get him where would it leave jsos
He nearly wouldn't get a game

In the VFL, where I believe he belongs.

 

[rp84]

I wouldn't touch Hewett. Straight in the guts. Was phenomenal in 2022 as a defensive midfielder. Happy to have Walsh on the wing but think this is an unpopular opinion

So long as we get rid of Walsh at half forward.

It was good early but hamstrung us so often.

He would (and was presumably directed to) go play as an extra mid.

How many times did we see us win a clearance, bang it on the boot and go straight to their spare?

100? 200?

That move was absolute amateur hour after the first few weeks.

I think we need to play him 70% true winger and be instructed to hold width and position and 20% mid.

No point our wings being sucked into the contest for another season. We started to get better at thus towards the end of the year....finally.

 

[Bluey19]

For the love of God,Zac Fisher will NOT and SHOULD not be traded.

He is different to what we have in our side.provides X factor,speed and finished 4th on our goal kicking.

What more would like him to do?

Curiously why do you think he needs to be traded?







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Because he has legitimate currency, that which is more than his actual output. Weighs 70 kilos, instils absolutely no fear at all when the whips are cracking. Please trade.

 

[Jeremias]

Because he has legitimate currency, that which is more than his actual output. Weighs 70 kilos, instils absolutely no fear at all when the whips are cracking. Please trade.

Who cares how much he weighs? Completely irrelevant.

 

[rp84]

And on that, given we win 60% of clearances, how is it that we never have players for a link up play through the edge of the square/ centre square?

When we win a clearance at a boundary throw in it gets hacked forward the vast majority.

Other teams win it, they have runners linking up off half back through the middle.

Do we just rob Peter to pay Paul by overloading the contest and then hacking it forward? It's one of the reasons why out contested numbers are great but we get rebounded against so hard.

 

[Bluey19]

We rate Cerra why?

Is it because he's a better player? Or because he's been developed better? Or because we snagged him from a better side? Is it because he's more experienced?

Did people complain this year about Cerra being soft? Couldn't kick? Couldn't tackle? We've all seen Cerra do exactly the same things as Dow... but he gets a pass why? We've seen him fumble... we've seen him miss targets... but he's a good player right.

I'm sure we could roll out a 5 hour tape of Cerra stuffing things up badly if we wanted to. Because I mean 62 clangers in 18 games this year... at 3.44/game. As for the rest of the Fab 5... Matt Kennedy - 17 games, 55 clangers. Patrick Cripps - 21 games, 106 clangers. Sam Walsh - 20 games, 83. clangers. George Hewett - 15 games, 42 clangers.

People have whipping boys and it takes a lot to change their minds. Carrots... Italian for turnover. Couldn't kick over a jam tin... delist him... drop him next week. Then something clicked for him and he went from scapegoat to club legend. It's just public perception. People would see the s**t things the player did, and blame them for the losses or even have a shot at them because they did something that cost us a goal in a win.

This year, I reckon that LOB has broken even in terms of popular opinion. People could see the progress he's made this year under the new coaches. Yes he does some dumb things at time. This year... 19 games... 52 clangers. Played an average of about 80% game time during those 19 games.

Dow was taken at 3, Cerra at 5, LOB at 10. Dow and LOB are both around 60 games played, Cerra is at 94. Is it the 34 extra games experience that makes him a better player? The added first team development? Better coaches? Or is it the confidence gained from having coaches that trust you to do the job and send you out there... and don't drop you if you make a mistake.

My goodness this is so far from what has actually occurred it is not funny. Watch the actual games. Cerra is a FAR FAR superior player than Dow and Obrien. Dow will be out of the league in a few years.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Calf injuries become less frequent with age, right?

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It was in response to your "cant play a full season, never has, never will" commentary.
He has a couple of times , who knows if he will again.