List Mgmt. List Management 2024-25

[Willsy10]

We keep going on about it until someone is held accountable.

Was Hinkley's "best list ever" in 2023 good or was it full of holes. If it was good, why isn't Hinkley held accountable for his failures?

If it's full of holes, why is the long term list manager not held accountable for long term mismanagement leading to him have to make a series of unfavourable trades, further weakening our list position

Either way, why is the long term footy dept boss not held accountable for overseeing this mess?

Until the club hold someone accountable there is no closure so it's pretty hard to move past it. I'm sick of this club telling me to forget about past failures as if we don't have a decade long pattern of failure that needs addressing

Our main issues for me are coaching and game plan. Obviously our game plan is good enough to get us to finals in a string position but it just doesn’t stand up in big games.

It is clearly the obvious time for a new direction in coaching and game plan.

Another important thing for me is fitness, conditioning and overall injury management side of things, would be nice to hit a September full of run like we did in 2014 rather than looking cooked.

But I don’t think our list management has been as diabolical as it’s made out to be. I think we’ve definitely got the makings of a premiership squad here.

I think even most premiership squads have gaps, but the gaps became obvious for us at the end of 2023 when there was a clear changing of the guard with all of Jonas, clurey, McKenzie and lycett cooked or retired.

Whilst Esava and Soldo didn’t work out as well as we liked I can understand why they did it as they saw 2024 as a big opportunity for us.




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[cmpower]

He wanted no part of being at Port next year. He has no problem per se with the Club, he just wants to be in Melbourne with his partner.

I have made it clear I believe his stance is pathetic given she is a "client services manager" (codeword for admin office worker) who could do plenty of her job remotely from Adelaide, and there were no extenuating family circumstances that warranted a move on compassionate grounds. They could have easily revisited this trade in 12 months time.

Is Gorilla Grip extenuating?

 

[RangaInTeal]

silly question, can we pay out Atkins? He has one year, so does Williams and Charleson, why not pay out Atkins?

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

He should be banned from working in this industry.

Throw him in jail. RIGHT NOW.

 

[Revan11]

Its the Rioli trade that really pisses me off.

Surely, surely we could've got pick 6 instead of 13 out of gold coast, or 23 instead of 29.

Its should've been two options: 6+29 or 13+23 for Houston.

I think Richmond would've definitely taken 13+23 for Rioli considering their haul.

1, 10, 11, 13, 18, 20, 24, 29 would would've been absolutely fine for them.

Would of left us with 6, 29, 36, 50. Much better.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The "Sack Cripps" thread is rough. Our list management have clearly gone out there to address needs over time. We've got a ****ing 40 thread "Sack Hinkley" saga, but because we haven't, we now turn the Eye of Sauron on Cripps. I thought he explained it fairly well on FiveAA today elsewhere. Yes, our trades last year put us in this position but also, realistically you can't compare the Rioli deal and others because they're dealing with Clubs who aren't in Melbourne and who don't value the picks right now. The market determines the value. You can judge the decision they've made in going for draft over keeping Dan, but we really can't judge that yet. Just about any other season I think the offers would have been higher, but that is in theory because the picks aren't as valuable.

Then just hold him to his contract. Like Geelong did with Tim Kelly and Ratugolea, or Sydney did with Papley.

I'm sorry but we've got some significant list issues due to mismanagement and poor development, especially with talls. Why is the list in a position where we have to agree to bad trades?

I think ultimately Davies should be sacked because he oversees all of this, but of course, he won't be.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Its the Rioli trade that really pisses me off.

Surely, surely we could've got pick 6 instead of 13 out of gold coast, or 23 instead of 29.

Its should've been two options: 6+29 or 13+23 for Houston.

I think Richmond would've definitely taken 13+23 for Rioli considering their haul.

1, 10, 11, 13, 18, 20, 24, 29 would would've been absolutely fine for them.

Would of left us with 6, 29, 36, 50. Much better.

We could have been strong at the start of the trade period and said that we want a top 10 pick and another pick inside 30 and don't even engage with us if you don't have that to offer, we'll keep Dan whether he likes it or not.

Instead, as usual, we showed weakness and accepted a bad deal.

 

[RossFC]

Should we be expecting some delistings + a Boak contract extension next week?

 

[Addy23]

Don't know where this comment belongs exactly but did anyone listen to CD on Fox Footy after the trade deadline?

Basically said we will look at how we enter the inside 50 in the off season because now that Dixon isn't there we cannot do what we did before. I know we all here know it, but this is first time I've heard it from the club that the coaches will be looking at a different way to enter 50. He specifically mentioned that the mobility of the forward line is something they'll try to exploit.

Idk why he would say anything like and almost commit to a change of plan when Ken holds all the power. Rookie mistake

 

[rignanv]

Its the Rioli trade that really pisses me off.

Surely, surely we could've got pick 6 instead of 13 out of gold coast, or 23 instead of 29.

Its should've been two options: 6+29 or 13+23 for Houston.

I think Richmond would've definitely taken 13+23 for Rioli considering their haul.

1, 10, 11, 13, 18, 20, 24, 29 would would've been absolutely fine for them.

Would of left us with 6, 29, 36, 50. Much better.

Yep. Like you say, even 23 instead of 29 makes the trade much better. Surely Richmond would take 6 and 29 for Rioli

 

[rignanv]

Don't know where this comment belongs exactly but did anyone listen to CD on Fox Footy after the trade deadline?

Basically said we will look at how we enter the inside 50 in the off season because now that Dixon isn't there we cannot do what we did before. I know we all here know it, but this is first time I've heard it from the club that the coaches will be looking at a different way to enter 50. He specifically mentioned that the mobility of the forward line is something they'll try to exploit.

Idk why he would say anything like and almost commit to a change of plan when Ken holds all the power. Rookie mistake

Didn't hear it but would love to see us actually do that. I'm thinking we'll just bomb it to big sav though and wonder why we're not getting the best out of lukosius

 

[Addy23]

Didn't hear it but would love to see us actually do that. I'm thinking we'll just bomb it to big sav though and wonder why we're not getting the best out of lukosius

Didn't mention Sav when he discussed fwd options which was interesting

 

[Enviable Tradition]

A good way to change how we have entered 50 for the last decade would be to sack Ken.

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[PowerBaz]

Don't know where this comment belongs exactly but did anyone listen to CD on Fox Footy after the trade deadline?

Basically said we will look at how we enter the inside 50 in the off season because now that Dixon isn't there we cannot do what we did before. I know we all here know it, but this is first time I've heard it from the club that the coaches will be looking at a different way to enter 50. He specifically mentioned that the mobility of the forward line is something they'll try to exploit.

Idk why he would say anything like and almost commit to a change of plan when Ken holds all the power. Rookie mistake

I wonder who has to tell Ken.

Believe it when I see it.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I am not happy with the trade but it is all about supply and demand and the demand wasn't quite there.

If you look at the Rioli and Bolton deals, the supply the demand was there and both Freo and the Suns had the draft capital at hand for Richmond. It also helps that Dimma has that prior relationship with Richmond.

Collingwood didn't have as much but if we held out, we could've got it but they caved in like the rest of the club. They should've just done the other trades separately for Lukosius and Richards and then revisit Houston. I don't personally mind Houston playing in the SANFL all year and then trading him.

The interesting element is Carlton who have Michael Voss as their coach wanted nothing to do with Dan Houston

5

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

. Quite telling, really as he would've been great in their backline and move them into higher premiership contention. Like Carlton, the Kangaroos also didn't want to get out of the draft either for Houston.

The Melbourne deal fell through which is just one of those things and everything would've been cool if we nabbed that.

If one of those later picks after 13 was a 10 or so, the trade is good to go so it is incumbent on the draft guys who have been telling us all that this is the best draft ever that they nail their picks hard. They still have time to win this trade with one, two or three stars or good players. If we pick a star at 13, we come back to winning the trade. If we pick a guy like Hotton or Travaglia or Shanahan and he's great, then we are back in and lets see what the guys can get with the other couple of picks. They are usually very good at picking the eyes out of drafts so this is their time to shine. This is their thing. Time to put the cash in the bank.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I'm also going to double down on Hinkley and the coaching and development team not doing their jobs.

We have struggled in the Hinkley era to develop key positions and have had to go to the trading to get them in, usually at overs and hoping we have something available for us.

Compounding this is Hinkley putting games into dud veterans like McKenzie and Jonas the year before and the McEntee, Fevans and Narkle combo.

With our tall forwards all at sea and the team desperado for a tall forward, is it no wonder they folded.

 

[davo999]

I think we got caught in a trap , wanting Lukosious and Richard’s meant we had to deal with Gold Coast and Collingwood , would’ve made it easier if Dan wanted to go to Carlton , Melbourne or North we could’ve kept the other deals separate .
Richard’s and Lukosious would want to be good otherwise the trade otherwise the trade is a bit of a flop

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

We have struggled in the Hinkley era to develop key positions and have had to go to the trading to get them in, usually at overs and hoping we have something available for us.

I think this is a false narrative we keep telling ourselves. We don’t fail to develop them as basically never draft KP. We only ever draft them at pick 50+ and the odds of them ever making it are only at about 10% from the start.

It’s a list management failure not to invest at the pointy end of the draft and target the top talent in those positions which we can then develop. We’re continuing to try and skip that first step and just hoping we find one of those diamonds in the rough at the bottom of the 9. Which we have never been able to actually identify.

Many give the list management a golden pass for the last few years as the best aspect of the club. Our list management has been shit house for the best part of the last decade as well along with the coaching.

 

[bringbackbucky]

How come no one in the media has asked CD or Cripps…
“If this year’s draft is so strong, why did you trade out of it last year?”

 

[Peninsula Boy]

I think this is a false narrative we keep telling ourselves. We don’t fail to develop them as basically never draft KP. We only ever draft them at pick 50+ and the odds of them ever making it are only at about 10% from the start.

It’s a list management failure not to invest at the pointy end of the draft and target the top talent in those positions which we can then develop. We’re continuing to try and skip that first step and just hoping we find one of those diamonds in the rough at the bottom of the 9. Which we have never been able to actually identify.

Many give the list management a golden pass for the last few years as the best aspect of the club. Our list management has been shit house for the best part of the last decade as well along with the coaching.

I was one of the first people to deep dive into this area and while it is true, we haven't invested as well with higher draft picks, it remains that the development of 12 years has yielded very little in terms of KPD, KPF and rucks. Rucks are quite telling because you don't usually need high draft picks to develop good rucks.

We are also now seeing the lack of development of small to medium forwards. I might have to look into this as well.

It seems if you're 6 foot and can kick well and play either inside or out, then we can "develop" that into half back flankers, mid or wing but after that, buttkiss.

I personally don't get the List Management jabs when the team has finished in contention for premierships recently with the worst coach possibly in AFL history with that many games under the belt. If you truly want a false narrative then saying List Management is crap when our previous minor round finishes on the AFL ladder are

2024 - 2nd
2023 - 3rd
2022 - 11th - the outlier, transitional year
2021 - 2nd
2020 - 1st

 

[1954]

We can't afford to c*ck up either of the draft picks we got for Houston, and I agree with Cookbook's suggestion that at least one of them needs to be AFL ready from round 1 next season.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

A lot of discussion on other boards that Butters will almost certainly be heading back to Victoria after next season. WBDs & Geelong are rumoured to be his preference.

 

[Rash]

A lot of discussion on other boards that Butters will almost certainly be heading back to Victoria after next season. WBDs & Geelong are rumoured to be his preference.

well if he does we would need two top 10 picks.
I doubt he goes though, we brought in his best mate from back home, that should help him stay.

 

[Brian McGee]

A lot of discussion on other boards that Butters will almost certainly be heading back to Victoria after next season. WBDs & Geelong are rumoured to be his preference.

Any butters trade would have to rival the haul that Carlton gave up for Chris Judd. But this is also one of those rumours that everyone jumps on and perpetuates because they want it to be true. The only evidence so far is that he didn’t sign a long term extension last time, and since then has increased his value again.

 

[It Just Is]

A lot of discussion on other boards that Butters will almost certainly be heading back to Victoria after next season. WBDs & Geelong are rumoured to be his preference.

I’ll spew up if Butters ever plays for Geelong