Mega Thread Matt Rendell (Part 2)

[Dickie Greenleaf]

Yeah it is good enough, yes it is.

Why?

If Rendell is as you say telling the truth, then why is he voluntarily getting counselling even though his lost his job?

If you watch the interview on Footy Classified again it's pretty clear that Rendell is genuinely trying to better himself and his dealings and ability to converse succint clear views would be enhanced by such counselling. Agreement to counselling in no way = "I was a liar".You're drawing a long bow if that is your conclusion. Not to mention that to be genuinely contrite and assuage any misgivings his indigenous friends may have developed due to the hatchet job he has received from the media and the AFL.

Surely accepting such a thing is far worse than just making racist comments? If he thinks that he is thesaviour to Indigenous Australia then he wouldn't be backing down now, would he?

Wow. Insinuating Rendell considers himself the saviour to Indigenous Australia. Just wow.

He has already lost his job so there is there shouldn't be no other hidden agenda. If wanted to voice more his opinions or solutions there are plenty of media outlets who would be willing to do so.

See answer to second quote.

You do realise he said he does not want to be contacted anymore? You do realise no Indegenious person has come in support of him since his interview? People in this thread were basically hanging their hat on Mcleod's comments but we have not heard from him since.

So if McLeod and other vocal supporters had become horrified and wish to distance themselves from such an obvious racist, would'nt they come out and try to publically distance themselves from those initial supportive comments? Silence doesn't automatically mean condemnation.

And you completely ingnored everything I have said, the facts I have stated in my previous posts, why? Do you have an agenda? Why should I believe you?

Yeah, if the shoe fits.

Rendell apologised and told you the truth you don't want to accept it.

I wonder why, I wonder why.

Which truth would that be?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

We will continue to have a high attrition rate among indigenous players, we will continue to have things like the recent Jurrah incident.

Thats so long as the AFL keeps up its PC bs, and career indigenous types like Mifsud are more interested in keeping their position than actually doing something to help.

Does anyone still think that grabbing talented young Aboriginal footballers straight out of remote areas and throwing them into the AFL meat grinder is a good idea? You are a racist according to the AFL if you don't think that is a good idea.

Why is the AFL the be all and end all for footy anyway?

 

[Kwality]

of course there isn't, you're talking about thousands of people from hundreds of tribal groups and many different community types, from inner city to far remote. No reason there should be one message or one solution that suits everyone. You wouldn't get a 'singular' message that means anything, any more than you would from white Australia. On that, I heard Dean Rioli explaining why an indigenous person at each club wouldn't necessarily fix anything, because a guy from the city or suburbs can't speak for or have a special understanding of a guy from a remote community or the Tiwi Islands, or vice versa.

About the only thing I'd have thought we could all agree on is that there is no place for prejudging based on skin color and stereotypes, but that each person should be treated as an individual, with their own history, strengths and weaknesses - not representatives who are automatically assumed have strengths and weaknesses because of their race. That seemed to be at the core of the Rendell issue, from the quote and the other comments that were summarized, and while we could argue about whether the process was reasonable (and I don't think it was), I am kind of stunned there is a debate about whether his comment was fair enough.

Ravioli supported wholeheartedly by Nathan Lovett Murray:

"Just because I am indigenous it doesn't mean I know anything about the culture of an indigenous bloke from Darwin or the desert,"

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/crossclub-mentoring-bid-20120323-1vpli.html#ixzz1q6QsU0Sl

The AFL have Mifsud performing a role that appears untenable to his constituents.

To Ron The Bear, mate you cant dumb this down to one single issue.​

 

[Roby]

Wonder no more:

He apologized because AFL media hacks were dropping attack after attack on him. "Mifsud said this, Mifsud said that."

He could of said, 'Mifsud didn't say this, Mifsud didn't say that' 'I categorically didn't say that'. He also defended Demetriou.

And how many Aboriginal players first spoke up for Mifsud, eh?

Zero. Nil. Nada.

Wrong. I have already stated who. Now your just making things up. Pathetic.

Just before his final apology, Rendell said words to the effect:

"They got their man. Why are they keeping it up?"

Then a day or so later, he makes a fuller apology. Why? He has lost his job. He owes no-one anything. So why did he do it?The obvious answer is loyalty to the club because the AFL did not like how the public were so angry at his dismissal.And because he was probably told the AFL would ease off if he did so. He virtually read from the AFL script, if that gives you a clue.

If he cared about his club he would of stood up to AFL. In the end he realised his mistake. He didn't have to get counselling IF as you say, this was down done and dusted.

His FC interview was a complete lie, then? Of course it wasn't.

His apology was 50% 'get off Adelaide's back'.

The reason he originally resigned was because mud sticks. Thats what Trigg told him. Thats what he was advised by Trigg. Offering counseling AFTER the AFL forced him to resign is the height of hypocrisy.

Of course the mud stuck, he made a comment which made his job untenable. Gauging by the reaction in this thread the AFL should of been harder on him.

Oh yeah, the media story where Rendell was first dropped into it was approved by the AFL. Trigg said after that story became public, his position was untenable. The AFL knew what it was doing.

Mifsud's career is over. No-one from any club will really talk to him again.

Good Riddance!

He is still has the possibility of coming back. If he doesn't cry me a river, it should serve as a warning to anyone else. Either provide education or solution, ask pertinent questions or don't bother saying anything at all.

 

[Kwality]

Chris Johnson supported Rendell after the Monday night interview talking on 3AW .

 

[Roby]

Did you watch the video you posted a link to earlier? The song that went, "We're all a little bit racist..."?

I'd agree with that sentiment, in that people are aware of differences and the modern definition of 'racism' has been expanded to include pointing out those differences.

Of course I watched the video. It appeared the discussion not only seemed more honest, it appeared to move forward once people acknowledged this truism.

It also showed how complex and ingrained these values can become because of the self perputation our community and media propagate.

PC is neither wrong or right. It's fluid and shifts like our moral values, people complaining about PC tend to be hypocrites who have their own set of politically correct beliefs and values. They try to tell you what you can and can't say but as soon as it goes against their values they scream "dictatorship" "over-censorship" and "repression of freedom of speech".

None of these things have happened in the Rendell case. He was given several opportunities and media avenues to tell his story. He still can.

But you need to consider the other side of the coin, he may already told his story. Everything points to having done so.

 

[Ron The Bear]

To Ron The Bear, mate you cant dumb this down to one single issue.

Then perhaps the official one-size-fits-all classification of "indigenous Australian" is counter-productive, and all problems should be addressed as regional issues.

It also showed how complex and ingrained these values can become because of the self perputation our community and media propagate.

So complex and ingrained that one session of re-programming is enough that "Andrew Demetriou...sees no reason why he (Rendell) could not return to football"? I think you understand very well that Rendell is not what most would call a racist.

Nobody knows the full story, just selected bits and pieces strategically drip-fed to the public to paint a favourable picture of the AFL. Rendell has been broken by powerful forces - forces which believe illusion is preferable to truth.

I don't pretend dealing with racism is simple. Without a hard line to fall back on, you must adjudicate on what is and isn't racism on an individual basis, and the lines become blurred. But the AFL's dealings on the subject, as with many others, have been marked by duplicity based on convenience.

This episode has damaged public trust in the AFL like few before it.

 

[Docker Clint]

Yes he did.

No he didn't. Misfud doesn't understand hyperbole.

It's like trying to communicate with someone who doesn't understand sarcasm. You can find yourself in an argument quicksmart and even after it's explained what you meant, the other person is still left feeling offended.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Wrong. I have already stated who. Now your just making things up. Pathetic.

When the shit hit the fan about this, indigenous players made public statements in support of Mifsud? Like they did for Rendell?

Just checked your posts. Didn't see that.

You are just making things up. Pathetic.

 

[Off The Couch]

What I find interesting in this thread is that unless I accept Misfuds version of events I'm considered racist for offering an opinion.

 

[Roby]

I would have apologised as well if I made those comments. You don't seem to understand that I am not suggesting that he should not have to apologised for comments. That is not the issue here (however I do like fact that apologising for a misunderstanding once you have realised how your words could have caused offence, is somehow apologising for being a racist and therefore you are a racist, case closed) . The issue is his handling by the AFL and instead of requesting Rendell to apologise and giving him the education that he requires as he is working in an industry that sees him dealing with indigenous people on a daily basis, they made sure he was sacked.

Would you really apologise? Remember, Rendell did not genuinely apologise on FC he said, 'IF he offended anyone', IF. If he was truly educated he would not say IF.

He also said he made these comments 'stupidly' to highlight a problem. Again this suggest that he believed that having two black parents was an issue. He also said 'at least' not need to. His implying at the very least you need one white parent, but the more the white the better.

These comments are completely and utterly ignorant and help nobody. The AFL and AFC did the correct thing here.

Dont you ask yourself why we, as the public even needed to know about this sordid affair? This could have been handled by all directly involved in the meeting and hierachy and actual beneift would of been had, not the witch hunt that took place. If Mifsud was speechless at the time, schedule another meeting with his "mate" and inform him of how that type of notion/language is completely unnacceptable.

You want to know ALL the truth or you don't want to know all the truth. You seem happy to defend Rendell in trying to grab as much information as possible, but if we take the AFC and AFL's stance you want to keep it in house. Make your mind up.

If you care greatly about the topic shouldn't you be concerned about the painting over the cracks that is going on? I always think that when a witch hunt takes place over well intended, very poorly chosen words (which Matt admits) it achieves nothing, and will go further to say that they way it was handled was specifically designed to achieve something for the AFL, looking like it gives a shit in the face of the Jurrah incident and Roos' & Hirds' comments.
You didnt address the Roos & Hirds' comments of my post....I wonder why ? I wonder why?

What cracks are you talking about? The only cracks I see is a fractured society who hold prejudice over other groups of people. The AFL is not supposed to fix everybody's problem, even though sometimes they have to. People have to take responsibility for their own actions at some point.

The Roos and Hird comments was an honest discussion regarding what they believed was the current climate. Low and behold we find out someone who thinks that way. I don't condemn Rendell for been honest, at least he was forthright to some extent. What bothers me is people have similar views like Rendell but will not make them known.

Like I said, given the pro-uneducated-ignorant-culturally-insensitive-outcry in this thread, even lesser comments like Hird's may need to be retracted if you think they will be continued to be employed by the AFL.

Ronnie Burns was pretty forthright on the Marngrook footy show?. Do you agree with his comments?

Ronnie's comments seem to support the AFL's stance. You may need to clarify why you see these different.

 

[Roby]

Chris Johnson supported Rendell after the Monday night interview talking on 3AW .

Since then he has only supported Misfud and hasn't said a word about Rendell. Did you watch the Marngrook Footy Show?

 

[Roby]

Then perhaps the official one-size-fits-all classification of "indigenous Australian" is counter-productive, and all problems should be addressed as regional issues.

It's not counter-productive when our constitution does not acknowledge Indegenious culture or values whatsoever. The constitution has up until now served us well, but it does not reflect modern views. We need to get that right before we even attempt to address regional issues - which are far more complex.

So complex and ingrained that one session of re-programming is enough that "Andrew Demetriou...sees no reason why he (Rendell) could not return to football"? I think you understand very well that Rendell is not what most would call a racist.

I understand implicitly that you would not call Rendell a racist. But I urge to reconsider your definition of it, if that is the case.

Nobody knows the full story, just selected bits and pieces strategically drip-fed to the public to paint a favourable picture of the AFL. Rendell has been broken by powerful forces - forces which believe illusion is preferable to truth.

Reread that paragraph, and I know you normally put your views succinctly and logically, but reread and see the contradiction; you may actually realise something.

I don't pretend dealing with racism is simple. Without a hard line to fall back on, you must adjudicate on what is and isn't racism on an individual basis, and the lines become blurred. But the AFL's dealings on the subject, as with many others, have been marked by duplicity based on convenience.

This episode has damaged public trust in the AFL like few before it.

So you say, but this is the same AFL that was awarded for by UNHRC for it's anti-religious and vilification code. What kind of duplicitousness would that offer if they didn't stand by that very code?

 

[Ron The Bear]

What bothers me is people have similar views like Rendell but will not make them known.

So what of the other recruiters who voiced similar views to Mifsud, but without the 'one white parent' tagline? No sacking or even re-education for them. You don't seem to understand how the AFL's conduct in singling someone out for a public hanging has cheapened and actually damaged the fight against racism.

It's not counter-productive when our constitution does not acknowledge Indegenious culture or values whatsoever. The constitution has up until now served us well, but it does not reflect modern views. We need to get that right before we even attempt to address regional issues - which are far more complex.

I know this is going to come across as nasty, and I really don't mean it that way, but...previously it was Aboriginals wanting to hear 'Sorry' that was holding things up. Now it's the Constitution? What are the indigenous values you would like to see enshrined in the Constitution?

So you say, but this is the same AFL that was awarded for by UNHRC for it's anti-religious and vilification code. What kind of duplicitousness would that offer if they didn't stand by that very code?

The AFL's success in this area is commendable. One only has to compare it to the relative disaster of its 'Respect & Responsibility' campaign to see that.

Previously, offenders have been enrolled in mediation and education. Hird & Roos' comments could easily have been construed as racist, but they're too high-profile to make an example of. Other recruiters made similar points to Rendell's, but their identities remain shrouded in secrecy. Rendell's transgression was apparently so much worse that he had to be forced from the game in a degrading fashion. There is no consistency.

 

[Roby]

When the shit hit the fan about this, indigenous players made public statements in support of Mifsud? Like they did for Rendell?

Just checked your posts. Didn't see that.

You are just making things up. Pathetic.

It will probably take you all day to check all my posts. So check again. Pathetic.

What I find interesting in this thread is that unless I accept Misfuds version of events I'm considered racist for offering an opinion.

Excellent point.

 

[mysainters]

Lots of players have been retweeting JM's tweets in the past few days.

 

[TAITA]

Excellent point.

For an extremely intelligent man, that seems to have gone right over your head Roby.

I'll repeat my question again since it's bothersome for you to answer it - what speaks louder - actions or words?

 

[Dickie Greenleaf]

For an extremely intelligent man, that seems to have gone right over your head Roby.

I'll repeat my question again since it's bothersome for you to answer it - what speaks louder - actions or words?

Don't hold your breath. When this guy has been confronted with something that doesn't fit into the ill educated racist stereotype, it gets ignored. Pathetic.

 

[Roby]

So what of the other recruiters who voiced similar views to Mifsud, but without the 'one white parent' tagline? No sacking or even re-education for them. You don't seem to understand how the AFL's conduct in singling someone out for a public hanging has cheapened and actually damaged the fight against racism.

We don't know who they are, although Demetriou says he knows because Misfud has told him and he was a friend of Rendell's. Now Demetriou said that he had spoken to their CEO about this and they dealt it in house.

So now you are suggesting you want to know who this? You realise this goes against everything in regards to the argument in support of Rendell?

Are you deliberately trying to be facetious here? Rendell was given an opportunity to recant his comments, but he said he stood by them. He also stood by them on FC.

He is now in counselling which was offered by the AFL, if they didn't give a crap about Rendell he wouldn't be afforded counselling or latitude whatosever.

But the ignroance in this thread will mean the AFL may have to take an even stronger stance in the future.

 

[Kwality]

Then perhaps the official one-size-fits-all classification of "indigenous Australian" is counter-productive, and all problems should be addressed as regional issues.



So complex and ingrained that one session of re-programming is enough that "Andrew Demetriou...sees no reason why he (Rendell) could not return to football"? I think you understand very well that Rendell is not what most would call a racist.

Nobody knows the full story, just selected bits and pieces strategically drip-fed to the public to paint a favourable picture of the AFL. Rendell has been broken by powerful forces - forces which believe illusion is preferable to truth.

I don't pretend dealing with racism is simple. Without a hard line to fall back on, you must adjudicate on what is and isn't racism on an individual basis, and the lines become blurred. But the AFL's dealings on the subject, as with many others, have been marked by duplicity based on convenience.

This episode has damaged public trust in the AFL like few before it.

Ron, I hope you dont think I was accusing you of anything, just adding a peice to the thrust of your argument.

Both the AFL & Jason Mifsud have much more to answer on whats gone down here & they need to be held accountable just as Matty Rendell has been.

Both Dean Rioli & Nathan Lovett Murray suggest the role the AFL have put Mifsud in, is not worth a bumper.

In WA, WAFC Commissioner Larry Kickett has a constituency that involves indigenous players across all areas, from guys like Chris Lewis, a 2nd generation footballer at the highest level & educated at a leading school (Christ Church) to Zeph Skinner who came to the Bulldogs on a journey that started playing 3rds in Perth, coming down from a remote home.
In addition Kickett has been actively involved in gaining employment for indigenous people in the mining areas (working with Rio, BHP & Chevron).
Do the AFL dont employ anyone living in Perth?

Was Mifsud selected for the role or was he the best man for the job?
Thats one for the AFL.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Ron, I hope you dont think I was accusing you of anything, just adding a peice to the thrust of your argument.

No, not at all.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Are you deliberately trying to be facetious here?

No. Mifsud cited comments by other recruiters.

"Some clubs have told the AFL they are more reluctant than before about recruiting Aboriginal players because they are thought to provide a difficult management issue.
...
(Rendell's) is a mindset that is permeating back through parts of the industry. Fortunately, there are still many clubs that embrace Aboriginal talent" (clearly implying that some clubs aren't)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-club-prefers-white-parents-20120315-1v8az.html

"(Rendell) has become the scapegoat for sentiments of recruiters at several clubs"

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/rendell-a-scapegoat-20120316-1vaxt.html

 

[Roby]

Don't hold your breath. When this guy has been confronted with something that doesn't fit into the ill educated racist stereotype, it gets ignored. Pathetic.

What Taita doesn't understand is that they are on my ignore list days ago because of the harassment and requoting things I've said without actually acknowledging anything I have said.

Just requoting and drivel, reqouting and drivel.

It's funny,I wrote a post before about people ignoring OBVIOUS facts but it seems nobody has the aptitude nor the intelligence to reply to it.

The video and useful links I have put forward have also been ignored and not discuss by nearly everyone barring maybe Ron The Bear.

In fact I have replied more often than anybody here, I have had to consume more of my time than anyone here, and apparently I'm not one that is ignoring.

 

[Roby]

Lots of players have been retweeting JM's tweets in the past few days.

Don't say that, they may think you work undercover for the AFL.

 

[Dickie Greenleaf]

What Taita doesn't understand is that they are on my ignore list days ago because of the harassment and requoting things I've said without actually acknowledging anything I have said.

Just requoting and drivel, reqouting and drivel.

It's funny,I wrote a post before about people ignoring OBVIOUS facts but it seems nobody has the aptitude nor the intelligence to reply to it.

The video and useful links I have put forward have also been ignored and not discuss by nearly everyone barring maybe Ron The Bear.

In fact I have replied more often than anybody here, I have had to consume more of my time than anyone here, and apparently I'm not one that is ignoring.

Ok fair enough, that's your right.

Would you agree or disagree that the following counterpoints I raised earlier are either valid or invalid? Racist or not?

If you watch the interview on Footy Classified again it's pretty clear that Rendell is genuinely trying to better himself and his dealings and ability to converse succint clear views would be enhanced by such counselling. Agreement to counselling in no way = "I was a liar".You're drawing a long bow if that is your conclusion. Not to mention that to be genuinely contrite and assuage any misgivings his indigenous friends may have developed due to the hatchet job he has received from the media and the AFL.

So if McLeod and other vocal supporters had become horrified and wish to distance themselves from such an obvious racist, would'nt they come out and try to publically distance themselves from those initial supportive comments? Silence doesn't automatically mean condemnation.