Coach Michael Voss - The Real Boss!

[95blues]

Richmond fans want coach Damien Hardwick sacked after embarrassing loss

A snap poll of Richmond fans want coach Damien Hardwick sacked after the weekend’s embarrassing loss to GWS. The Tigers kicked just three goals in Saturday’s 88 point loss to the Giants, their lowest score since 1961. The result has club legends seething. Kevin Bartlett labelled the first half...

www.3aw.com.au

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/richmond/richmond-coach-damien-hardwick-admits-he-could-have-been-sacked-last-year/news-story/fea211cae16a5ecbfdf335f4eed49a41

Ehhhhh fans and old guard wanted him gone in 2016.

I believe he started 0-9 with a percentage of 49% as well with Richmond.

But he sounds smart though right? Not a General just a leader/tradie or something like that...

 

[Jeremias]

I haven’t need this dispirited with our play for years- even when we were completely s**t we were ok to watch (some patches- other patches were completed ****ed).
I’ve been calling out that we have issues since mid last yr- it’s not just this year.
I believed we had turned the corner from being completely s**t- with how we are playing we are right back there & we shouldn’t be!
The game plan is so so bad & that sits with Voss.

How often do our players allow their opponent to walk through their attempted tackles?

How often do our players fail to execute basic kicks and handballs to team mates?

And what about when an on-field leader of this football club streams forward, and rather than a short 15m kick to either of the last 2 Coleman medallists - both of whom are without an opponent - shoots for goal, and misses?

Voss is not infallible but we have to move past this toxic cycle that sees all issues sit solely with the coach. Our issues venture well beyond the head coach.

 

[Kernafides]

Calm down - no need to flop from one side to the other. There's plenty of nuance and blame for all involved. Players are as soft as an organisation allows them to be.

Exactly and we've fed that by sacking coaches

I

2013 15 wins, 2014 12 wins, 2015 15 wins, 2016 8 wins 2017 18 wins & a flag!
Completely different situation to us! U can understand why they were calling for him & why the club “stuck fat”.
We are currently going backwards!!!
When was the last time u can remember that the playing group was performing this badly & the game style so bad?

You must have missed the 6, 8 and 10 wins in his first 3 years...would we have stuck fat in that instance?? Doubt it

 

[HarryFlashman]

How often do our players allow their opponent to walk through their attempted tackles?

How often do our players fail to execute basic kicks and handballs to team mates?

And what about when an on-field leader of this football club streams forward, and rather than a short 15m kick to either of the last 2 Coleman medallists - both of whom are without an opponent - shoots for goal, and misses?

Voss is not infallible but we have to move past this toxic cycle that sees all issues sit solely with the coach. Our issues venture well beyond the head coach.

Happy to keep him- just get him to change how we are playing! It’s not working!
It all fits together

 

[gab213]

Exactly and we've fed that by sacking coaches

You must have missed the 6, 8 and 10 wins in his first 3 years...would we have stuck fat in that instance?? Doubt it

Would have been gone after two.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The players should be just as accountable as the coaches, I don't get the desire to absolve them of any responsibility.

Yes, in a sense but I think the basic 'player don't be playing good' argument completely shows no understanding in what drives performance. Preparation, training, recovery and attitude. All are highly influenced by both sides of the coach player coin.

Egs: Coach makes odd selections - players spread negativity

Player A trains hard but too many others jog and coach doesn't call them up to intensity, Player A gives up trying to train so hard - standards slip.

Players follow coaching instructions exactly, results don't follow, players start taking short cuts or thinking they know better.

Player A sees himself training harder and playing better than player B. Player A gets dropped player B doesn't. Confusion and negativity can spread.

There's all sorts of this but for whatever reason people like to be very very binary and think in game skills 'just need to be executed better' - yeah right. Why - identify the issues causing the composure or cohesion issues.

I'm tired of people thinking AFL drafted players aren't skilled enough. Of course they ****ing are. It's everything around that.

 

[jj1978]

I wonder what the heck is discussed and highlighted in post game reviews?

 

[Jeremias]

Happy to keep him- just get him to change how we are playing! It’s not working!
It all fits together

But you're suggesting he is the reason why it's not working and therefore by extension he is the problem.

It's not that simple.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Exactly and we've fed that by sacking coaches

You must have missed the 6, 8 and 10 wins in his first 3 years...would we have stuck fat in that instance?? Doubt it

That was the start of a complete rebuild- nowhere near where we are now! Completely false comparison

 

[AlphaBlue]

What a strange question.

We're not even half way through the year and we've already won more games than we did in some full seasons over the past 20 odd years.

Have you seen our list today vs those other years?

 

[Jeremias]

Have you seen our list today vs those other years?

I have, yes.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

You must have missed the 6, 8 and 10 wins in his first 3 years...would we have stuck fat in that instance?? Doubt it

Idk about other Carlton fans but a coach who increases win numbers three seasons in a row would have my support every day of the week.

 

[HarryFlashman]

But you're suggesting he is the reason why it's not working and therefore by extension he is the problem.

It's not that simple.

I’m suggesting our game plan is flawed which results in poor performance - Voss sets the game plan, either he can change it or we change him after continued poor performance- it’s not that complicated

 

[marcmurphy3]

Show me the evidence that political correctness "blurred the form and process" - whatever that means.

It's widely known that we rejected Lyon on the basis of issues between him and the female at Fremantle. Nobody can provide definitive proof but there's been enough chatter from enough places to suggest that's what happened.

I believe that's what being referred too.

 

[gab213]

Yes, in a sense but I think the basic 'player don't be playing good' argument completely shows no understanding in what drives performance. Preparation, training, recovery and attitude. All are highly influenced by both sides of the coach player coin.

Eggs: Coach makes odd selections - players spread negativity

Player A trains hard but too many others jog and coach doesn't call them up to intensity, Player A gives up trying to train so hard - standards slip.

Players follow coaching instructions exactly, results don't follow, players start taking short cuts or thinking they know better.

Player A sees himself training harder and playing better than player B. Player A gets dropped player B doesn't. Confusion and negativity can spread.

There's all sorts of this but for whatever reason people like to be very very binary and think in game skills 'just need to be executed better' - yeah right. Why - identify the issues causing the composure or cohesion issues.

I'm tired of people thinking AFL drafted players aren't skilled enough. Of course they ******* are. It's everything around that.

I don't care how skilled they are, are they made of the right stuff? That's what puts one player ahead of another. Some of the most highly skilled players have been failures over the years and it had nothing to do with their coaches, some of those that people may consider 'average ' players have been able to have highly successful careers. All I'm seeing is a want to blame coaches for everything and that leads to players not taking personal responsibility for making themselves better. Where are the so called leaders of our club when the chips are down? Surely personal pride in your performance stops you from turning your toes up when things are tough?

 

[Jeremias]

I’m suggesting our game plan is flawed which results in poor performance - Voss sets the game plan, either he can change it or we change him after continued poor performance- it’s not that complicated

No it isn't but it's also not that simple. And I go back to my initial query which you ignored - is Voss or the game plan responsible for any of the issues I listed?

 

[Kernafides]

That was the start of a complete rebuild- nowhere near where we are now! Completely false comparison

That excuse didn't save Bolton or teague lol

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I don't care how skilled they are, are they made of the right stuff? That's what puts one player ahead of another. Some of the most highly skilled players have been failures over the years and it had nothing to do with their coaches, some of those that people may consider 'average ' players have been able to have highly successful careers. All I'm seeing is a want to blame coaches for everything and that leads to players not taking personal responsibility for making themselves better. Where are the so called leaders of our club when the chips are down? Surely personal pride in your performance stops you from turning your toes up when things are tough?

Yes but it starts falling into the literal job description of a coach - get the best out of your players. I want both groups to improve. I think the players are embarrassing themselves but they're doing so under the supervision of an organisation.

 

[gab213]

It's widely known that we rejected Lyon on the basis of issues between him and the female at Fremantle. Nobody can provide definitive proof but there's been enough chatter from enough places to suggest that's what happened.

I believe that's what being referred too.

He refused to submit to an interview process where questions would have rightly been posed. He could have answered those and everyone could have moved on with the process. None of us knows what exactly occurred but I've never heard that he was ruled out without a chance to talk to the selection committee. He backed out, not us.

 

[BlueGum]

It's widely known that we rejected Lyon on the basis of issues between him and the female at Fremantle. Nobody can provide definitive proof but there's been enough chatter from enough places to suggest that's what happened.

I believe that's what being referred too.

Show me the evidence. Its just blather and spin - convenient for some people to peddle and stir up disquiet. Do not trust chatter/ widely known or suggestions...ever.

 

[gab213]

Yes but it starts falling into the literal job description of a coach - get the best out of your players. I want both groups to improve. I think the players are embarrassing themselves but they're doing so under the supervision of an organisation.

Maybe we also picked badly when picking some of these players, I don't know but gees I haven't seen much of them attempting to push through adversity.

 

[HarryFlashman]

No it isn't but it's also not that simple. And I go back to my initial query which you ignored - is Voss or the game plan responsible for any of the issues I listed?

Yes, I believe it is. With a better game plan, we will be able to play to a higher standard- which enables better tackling, skills, option selection, less pressure to kick straight, all round playing better

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Yes, in a sense but I think the basic 'player don't be playing good' argument completely shows no understanding in what drives performance. Preparation, training, recovery and attitude. All are highly influenced by both sides of the coach player coin.

Eggs: Coach makes odd selections - players spread negativity

Player A trains hard but too many others jog and coach doesn't call them up to intensity, Player A gives up trying to train so hard - standards slip.

Players follow coaching instructions exactly, results don't follow, players start taking short cuts or thinking they know better.

Player A sees himself training harder and playing better than player B. Player A gets dropped player B doesn't. Confusion and negativity can spread.

There's all sorts of this but for whatever reason people like to be very very binary and think in game skills 'just need to be executed better' - yeah right. Why - identify the issues causing the composure or cohesion issues.

I'm tired of people thinking AFL drafted players aren't skilled enough. Of course they ******* are. It's everything around that.

Okay come on now, Zac Fisher has not come on as expected after his first two seasons in the AFL.

How is Voss to blame for Fish not kicking on ? Or Paddy Dow being another Kane Lucas of a top 10 draft pick even before Voss was appointed coach.

And it has to be said, in an 18 (soon to be 19) team comp, the playing pool from national drafts is more spread thinly than ever.

Happily from all reports, the club seems most likely to back Voss in, and we will see another big list purge (Fisher, Dow, TDK, Silvagni should all go/be traded, alongside the retiring Ed Curnow and several young fringe players like Philp who were poor draft picks in hindsight)

We simply don't draft and develop young players and draftees as well as most of the other teams in the comp (Adelaide have gone past us FFS)

I'll admit Vossy has struggled a bit as coach this season, but the cold hard facts is we don't have a list capable of seriously challenging for a flag (nowhere near it)

I have accepted the fact we won't win a flag in the time left in Cripps' career (well for the rest of his prime anyway)

We need at least 6-8 better replacements in our best 22 for starters (probably 10 tbh) no matter who is coaching us.

I try to be as positive/optimistic as I can as a supporter, but I am also a realist.

We have to go backwards (from a list management perspective) to go forwards. Simple as that.

 

[Kernafides]

Idk about other Carlton fans but a coach who increases win numbers three seasons in a row would have my support every day of the week.

Worked for Teague lol

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I honestly think what Voss needs right now is Robert Walls in the coaches box looking over his shoulder