Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2024, Part 2

[Art Vandelay_]

Anyone in here put Kenny face on adtkins...

Thanks tony

 

[kickazz]

I'm surprised at people think that what can be construed as workplace bullying is warranted.

To be workplace bullying it has to be repeated behaviour. This was more an outburst.

 

[frggr]

Everyone baking Hinkleys leadership, have a look at Sicily, he’s

Sicily's a hot head and a player who's been in the system 10 years.

Ken's been around for 40. They're both shit in their own way but Ken should be held to a higher standard.

 

[rocker_oz33]

View attachment 2110223

Thanks tony

 

[frggr]

No emotion doesn’t get brought into an overreaction to a social media post that didn’t matter …if that’s triggering a senior coach to antagonise a player/team after the siren in a win then he deserves a lot of scrutiny for his behaviour

Ginni is a flog and will rightly ..albeit a bit too late ..be told to pull his head in with the social media stuff ect but at the end of the day he’s a immature kid

What’s Kenny excuse? Old enough to know better and an actual leader of thw club

Hallelujah. This. Exactly.

 

[frggr]

To be workplace bullying it has to be repeated behaviour. This was more an outburst.

Yeah, fair I'll take that. It's been a long day.

It's still not on from any coach, let alone an experienced coach like Ken.

 

[Munich]

If it's so ridiculous, why is Ken apologizing profusely for it?

And no, he may not be the only one pulled into the meeting but he'd receive the biggest sanction because he's the senior leader. The expectations of him are higher. He (theoretically) knows better.

Ken (and Mitchell and all coaches) have responsibilities in regard to their behaviour and their interactions with players.

It's why McCartney got fined last week. It's why Malthouse had trouble. It's why Ken will likely get sanctioned by the AFL.

To pretend that what Ken did was hunky dory in the modern game and that Sicily & Mitchell were wrong to defend his player is ludicrous.

More generally I suppose we could all go back to the era of hazing and homophobia and other crap that used to be "part of the game".

Hypothetically:

How would people react if we had a semi against Port with a Prelim against Brisbane on the line - Max Holmes drops a cheeky comment on Linc McCarthy's instagram saying see you in Two weeks.

We lose to Port in a close one and Ken goes directly for Holmes just verbally lays into him.

Would you want Dangerfield to ignore it? Would you want Chris Scott to say "oh it's part of the game"?

None of this "Max wouldn't do that. We wouldn't do that. Max doesn't know Linc. Linc's injured".

In this hypothetical how would people want our club's leaders to react in that moment?

Cos it seems the Hawthorn/Mitchell/Sicily/"Games gone soft" vibes are overshadowing the issue.

You've jumped the shark.

You still can't comment on how Ken saying something to an oppo player is somehow worse than when Scott did it.

 

[frggr]

You've jumped the shark.

You still can't comment on how Ken saying something to an oppo player is somehow worse than when Scott did it.

Was Scott triggered by a social media comment between two former team mates?
If so, I think I might have missed that incident.

 

[My Tilly]

Tom Barrass and Josh Battle have more or less committed to coming to Hawthorn.

That would allow a player like Weddle to freewheel a bit more.

Their list undoubtedly has a ton of upside, as much as I hate to admit it.

Meek is a nice plank to build around, too.

In saying all that, we're not exactly treading water; we're doing very well thank you very much.

Spot on.

I think this year was the most significant in terms of 'next brigade' stepping up. Even the media have yet to really catch on.

Guthrie & Miers will poll top 10 come Carji night and then what we have seen from Holmes, Dempsey, Humphries and Mannagh, has been nothing short of magnificent.

 

[Munich]

Was Scott triggered by a social media comment between two former team mates?
If so, I think I might have missed that incident.

Does it matter what the trigger was?

Your whole argument is around a senior coach shouldn't give shit to an opposing player.

In the workplace.

 

[kickazz]

Can everyone please get back on track. Hawks have been booted from 2024 season. It’s almost as good as the Cats winning a game.

They really should be given another chance. It doesn't seem fair, from what I've heard they are the best thing since sliced bread, it's not right that they are out of the finals just because they lost.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I'm going to the office .
I'm a bully .

 

[frggr]

I find it hard to see how this isn’t bullying.

I'm exceptionally glad that presumably you've never had to experience working in cultures where behaviors like Ken's existed (however minor it is on the scale)

 

[frggr]

Fair play; the Hawks took a huge stride forward this year.

They have a lot of hope for the future; Sam Mitchell - loathsome swine though he may be - has quickly proven his bona fides as an AFL coach.

Their list seemingly has holes - and yet they were nigh on irresistible in the back end of this season.

I didn't fancy the prospect of facing them in a Final.

If they complete the Barrass/Battle trades leading into 2025, then they'll really have some depth and sting to their list.

Add Will Day, Cameron MacKenzie, Jiath and Mitchell Lewis to that mix and they are in for a shot at Top 4.

Annoyingly good year; Mitchell shits me to tears but he is getting results.

Yep. Just one straight(er) kick off a prelim.

People here will shitcan the smack-talk culture, but it resonates with his players.

 

[frggr]

Does it matter what the trigger was?

Your whole argument is around a senior coach shouldn't give shit to an opposing player.

In the workplace.

Please stop misrepresenting what I said. I had qualifications on the statement. If players are being unduly physical or crossing the "banter" line (eg homophobia, racism etc) then I would have no qualms with Ken responding.

Instead he initiated after a single public comment between two former team mates.

Bit different.

One is a direct response by a coach to action that occured recently (eg on the field in that quarter)

The other is a delayed action initiated by the coach (eg coach directly attacks player a week after a throwaway comment on social media).

One's defensible and even reasonable, the other isn't.

 

[Romeoh1]

If it's so ridiculous, why is Ken apologizing profusely for it?

And no, he may not be the only one pulled into the meeting but he'd receive the biggest sanction because he's the senior leader. The expectations of him are higher. He (theoretically) knows better.

Ken (and Mitchell and all coaches) have responsibilities in regard to their behaviour and their interactions with players.

It's why McCartney got fined last week. It's why Malthouse had trouble. It's why Ken will likely get sanctioned by the AFL.

To pretend that what Ken did was hunky dory in the modern game and that Sicily & Mitchell were wrong to defend his player is ludicrous.

More generally I suppose we could all go back to the era of hazing and homophobia and other crap that used to be "part of the game".

Hypothetically:

How would people react if we had a semi against Port with a Prelim against Brisbane on the line - Max Holmes drops a cheeky comment on Linc McCarthy's instagram saying see you in Two weeks.

We lose to Port in a close one and Ken goes directly for Holmes just verbally lays into him.

Would you want Dangerfield to ignore it? Would you want Chris Scott to say "oh it's part of the game"?

None of this "Max wouldn't do that. We wouldn't do that. Max doesn't know Linc. Linc's injured".

In this hypothetical how would people want our club's leaders to react in that moment?

Cos it seems the Hawthorn/Mitchell/Sicily/"Games gone soft" vibes are overshadowing the issue.

Crikey- Ginnivan, Hinkley, Sicily - might all have cause for a bit of regret but invoking workplace bullying and homophobia comparisons seems to be a stretch.

 

[frggr]

It’s not workplace bullying, they don’t work together and Ken isn’t his boss.

Ginnivan is a man, he is fully culpable for his actions. If Sicily wasn’t such a hot head he would’ve taken the higher ground and would’ve stfu and we wouldn’t be talking about it. He’s the one who compromised the chair off.

Anyway move on.

They do work together. They're part of the same umbrella organization and will be dealt with accordingly. Ken's not his boss, correct, but is a senior figure in the organization.


I'm sure Geelong's young players would feel the club had their back if Danger and Scotty simply ignored the opposition coach yelling at the player over a social media comment between ex team mates

Anyway, yes, moving on....

 

[Vdubs]

Some things are more important than show and entertainment. A lot of people-including you-are letting their views of hawthorn colour their thinking on a much more important issue.

I have a lot of respect for Hawthorn as a club, and even this team. The first thing I saw was Sicily looking aggro and heated and coming at Kenny, and being restrained by his teammates, well before the chairlift for Breust. Whatever Ken said to Ginnivan, you think he should have said nothing... that's fair. He was asked about Ginnivan pregame, and they have had one hell of a week. I personally am not that horrified by what he said or did, but PC being what it is, Ken will apologise, cop a fine, and we can watch with stress and anticipation Lions v GWS. As you suggest, Port will likely get done next week, as long as we don't.
And the much more important issue I take it is that senior coaches are simply not allowed any banter with young opposition players, particularly after a KO final loss for that player, no matter how provocative or antagonistic that player is.
This is not a Hawks thing for me.

 

[Munich]

Please stop misrepresenting what I said. I had qualifications on the statement. If players are being unduly physical or crossing the "banter" line (eg homophobia, racism etc) then I would have no qualms with Ken responding.

Instead he initiated after a single public comment between two former team mates.

Bit different.

One is a direct response by a coach to action that occured recently (eg on the field in that quarter)

The other is a delayed action initiated by the coach (eg coach directly attacks player a week after a throwaway comment on social media).

One's defensible and even reasonable, the other isn't.

You literally said coaches have a responsibility with what they say to a player on the field.

What does it matter if it's about something that happened a week ago, or that night.

Your point was they're held in a higher regard.

Yet our coach has done the exact thing you're talking about. Yet now that's reasonable but what happened tonight isn't.

Ok.

 

[Cataholic]

Please stop misrepresenting what I said. I had qualifications on the statement. If players are being unduly physical or crossing the "banter" line (eg homophobia, racism etc) then I would have no qualms with Ken responding.

Instead he initiated after a single public comment between two former team mates.

Bit different.

One is a direct response by a coach to action that occured recently (eg on the field in that quarter)

The other is a delayed action initiated by the coach (eg coach directly attacks player a week after a throwaway comment on social media).

One's defensible and even reasonable, the other isn't.

Aren't we getting a bit precious here?

It's a testosterone charged game at the best of times, and a guy lipped off going in.

He failed to walk the talk, and his coach is upset??

What goes around comes around.

 

[rocker_oz33]

They do work together. They're part of the same umbrella organization and will be dealt with accordingly. Ken's not his boss, correct, but is a senior figure in the organization.


I'm sure Geelong's young players would feel the club had their back if Danger and Scotty simply ignored the opposition coach yelling at the player over a social media comment between ex team mates

Anyway, yes, moving on....

Finally .

 

[Vdubs]

They do work together. They're part of the same umbrella organization and will be dealt with accordingly. Ken's not his boss, correct, but is a senior figure in the organization.


I'm sure Geelong's young players would feel the club had their back if Danger and Scotty simply ignored the opposition coach yelling at the player over a social media comment between ex team mates

Anyway, yes, moving on....

And without Sicily there would be no discussion here at all...

 

[kickazz]

I think the problem here is generational.

Ken is from the "give it and get it back" generation.

Ginni is from the generation that seeks praise, and to be fair, his "see you in 14 days" thing was just him seeing things from his perspective - Port didn't enter his thinking, why would it. I don't think he was baiting Port or Ken, it just didn't enter consideration because he is heavily focussed on himself.

 

[rocker_oz33]

I think the problem here is generational.

Ken is from the "give it and get it back" generation.

Ginni is from the generation that seeks praise, and to be fair, his "see you in 14 days" thing was just him seeing things from his perspective - Port didn't enter his thinking, why would it. I don't think he was baiting Port or Ken, it just didn't enter consideration because he is heavily focussed on himself.

Yep gini can't say anything to someone.
Has to use tik tok.

 

[frggr]

Crikey- Ginnivan, Hinkley, Sicily - might all have cause for a bit of regret but invoking workplace bullying and homophobia comparisons seems to be a stretch.

Yes a deliberate stretch - I was exaggerating a return to the days of homophobia for effect, because there's seemingly common idea that Hinkley's outburst over a social media comment is just "part of the game" and "Ginnivan's a flog, so..."

"Bullying" was the wrong term, but it's not the right behaviour for a senior figure in the AFL to be partaking in.

Hinkley's the senior, experienced one and he instigated. He's already shown his regret.

Sicily's defending his player in the way Sicily does. I doubt anyone at Hawthorn has an issue with his response. I would hope Geelong's leaders would speak up for our players (not exactly in Sicily's manner) should they find themselves in a similar situation.