Oppo Camp Non Geelong football (AFL) discussion 2024, Part I

[rocker_oz33]

This is nothing to do with Collingwood and isn't some new discussion this year - it's been an often discussed topic at this time of the year over the past decade, which includes the years Collingwood hasn't played in the grand final

Noithing new .

But it happened to the biggest club they trying to get it seen and heard ...more .

 

[cats_09]

Noithing new .

But it happened to the biggest club they trying to get it seen and heard ...more .

And again, they didn't start the discussion on this which was started by the media last week - but surely they're allowed to answer questions about the topic when it's put to them

If Collingwood lost on Saturday and instead it was Brisbane who won, it's still a discussion we'd be hearing this week and not sure we'd call them the biggest club

 

[rocker_oz33]

And again, they didn't start the discussion on this which was started by the media last week - but surely they're allowed to answer questions about the topic when it's put to them

If Collingwood lost on Saturday and instead it was Brisbane who won, it's still a discussion we'd be hearing this week and not sure we'd call them the biggest club

 

[And_ROOS]

So what you're saying is, the umpires should get a premiership medal as well?

To be fair before they awarded the medals post game they got an umpire up on the stage and someone gave him something, and I assumed it was the Norm Smith for his courageous "advantage call" he made. Real game winning for the Pies that was.

 

[Spearman]

I think that premiership medals should be reserved for the 23 on the day, there will be hard luck stories every year but that’s just the nature of it.

That said I would also like to see some official acknowledgement for players who’ve played above a certain amount of games for the year (10-15?) and therefore made a decent contribution to the team’s success.

Adams and Noble this year (not sure how many games McStay played), Holmes last year.

Maybe they could do down the NBA/NRL path and produce premiership rings for every player who has played a certain amount of games during the year.

Under the current system that is up to the club as how to honor those players who contributed. That's probably the best that can be done. I think it will always be discussion point when its an official medal sort of thing.
The NFL kicks in a bunch of money for rings, they're filthy rich, with the team adding more depending on how many they give out to other parts of the org. I've held a conference championship ring and it was a big lump of metal.

 

[Cattery]

I have more than zero idea. I heard his coach mention his role and results. I have zero interest in Frampton, but he clearly had a role, and was held in enough esteem to crack a spot in the Premiership team. Who on earth are we to get miffed about that??!

And it's not as if I have never mentioned OUR injuries- that has been on repeat all year.

End of day, winners are grinners, and the rest now can hope to mount a challenge.

That would have been after the match would it?
He's hardly going to say, well we really hoped he'd have a bit of an impact, maybe kick a goal or two, but unfortunately he was simply putrid and an embarrassment to the club.

And for someone you have "zero interest" in, you seem to spend a fair bit of time defending his "performance".

 

[CharacterFirst]

I think the AFL should give medals to the whole GF winning list, once they officially acknowledge all Geelong's Flags.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

To be fair before they awarded the medals post game they got an umpire up on the stage and someone gave him something, and I assumed it was the Norm Smith for his courageous "advantage call" he made. Real game winning for the Pies that was.

Mate - any fair analysis of the GF - Coll should have won by about 6-7 goals with straight kicking

The Lions 2nd half - was similiar to quite a few Geel 23 2nd halfs - in that they didnt do much - and only stayed in the game by their accuracy - and the inaccuracy of their opponent - and thus they could have still pinched the game at the death

And i thought Collingwoods win over GWS was a very good win - early in the 3rd qtr when GWS led 5 goals to 2 ( and the Magpies hadnt kicked a major for 62 minutes ) and the Giants were totally outplaying them with that play on football - i thought Coll were nearly gone for all money - and everyone here knows how nerve wracking those PFs are . So to eventually get back in front - and then defend for 6 minutes after Hogans goal - i thought it was a very good win - even though it was only by a single point - because the opposition played extremely well

As for the medal - look maybe overstating it a bit - but i think it is nearly criminal that Menengola hasnt got a medal and Parfitt has . It should be a minium of so many games - you cant have Noble and Derek Kickett playing every single home and away game and not getting a medal - logic says they should get a medal - and it would be so soothing to those players mentally if they did

 

[Vdubs]

That would have been after the match would it?
He's hardly going to say, well we really hoped he'd have a bit of an impact, maybe kick a goal or two, but unfortunately he was simply putrid and an embarrassment to the club.

And for someone you have "zero interest" in, you seem to spend a fair bit of time defending his "performance".

He is a premiership player.
I don't care how putrid he was.
Irrelevant.
Ask Cam Mooney at NM.
He may get the chance to prove his worth to you next year or later.
Does not worry me one iota that he has a premiership medal, and that he was less deserving than McStay, just how it is.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I was driving down to Melb yesterday arvo and was listening to MMM, and the drive-time show came on with James Brayshaw. Anyway, he had this self-declared footy media hotshot telling them how Fly McRae went to the birth of his child, The GF, and even dropped into the Lion's 2003 GF reunion. Obviously, puffing McRae up as a ripper bloke and all that because he did all these things. Then this tosser says, "But Chris and Brad Scott didn't go, and that was odd. McRae could do all these things, and the Scott brothers couldn't be bothered to attend the reunion." (I'm paraphrasing here).

Then, James Brayshaw said ever so calmly, "Well, of course, the Scott brothers wouldn't go to the Lion's 2003 GF reunion. They didn't play in it." Then Brayshaw went to explain why, which, IIRC, Brad was injured, and Chris was suspended. I might have that ass up there.

Anyway, I laughed. Brayshaw totally pwned that guy. This is what's wrong with journalists these days. They don't bother looking things up and verifying their facts before they run off at the mouth.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

That would have been after the match would it?
He's hardly going to say, well we really hoped he'd have a bit of an impact, maybe kick a goal or two, but unfortunately he was simply putrid and an embarrassment to the club.

And for someone you have "zero interest" in, you seem to spend a fair bit of time defending his "performance".

Yet it's clear the role Frampton had on the day - he was to keep Andrews close to goal and bring the ball to ground so the Pies smalls could go to work. Just as Buckley and McCrae outlined on Fox - taking away Andrews strengths was part of their planning.
Indeed McCrae commented that he didn't even notice at 1/2 time that Frampton hadn't had a possession - he did notice however that Andrews had only 5 touches and zero influence. Andrews had 7 touches till 3/4 time and played well in the last with 9 or so touches.
Frampton lowered his colours in the last 1/4 giving away 2 frees and outmarked twice by HA - Andrews other touches were when Frampton was on the bench. So he performed his role well on the day but could have been more damaging had he held a couple of marks and converted with a goal or two.

Interestingly Fagan had a similar plan to limit Moore's effectiveness with Daniher taking him up the ground on occasion and other talls playing defensively on him - Moore had 7 touches and was poor by his standards.

 

[And_ROOS]

Mate - any fair analysis of the GF - Coll should have won by about 6-7 goals with straight kicking

The Lions 2nd half - was similiar to quite a few Geel 23 2nd halfs - in that they didnt do much - and only stayed in the game by their accuracy - and the inaccuracy of their opponent - and thus they could have still pinched the game at the death

And i thought Collingwoods win over GWS was a very good win - early in the 3rd qtr when GWS led 5 goals to 2 ( and the Magpies hadnt kicked a major for 62 minutes ) and the Giants were totally outplaying them with that play on football - i thought Coll were nearly gone for all money - and everyone here knows how nerve wracking those PFs are . So to eventually get back in front - and then defend for 6 minutes after Hogans goal - i thought it was a very good win - even though it was only by a single point - because the opposition played extremely well

As for the medal - look maybe overstating it a bit - but i think it is nearly criminal that Menengola hasnt got a medal and Parfitt has . It should be a minium of so many games - you cant have Noble and Derek Kickett playing every single home and away game and not getting a medal - logic says they should get a medal - and it would be so soothing to those players mentally if they did

Any fair analysis starts with "the Pies won a flag after getting through a PF they shouldn't have won." Freo's Brayshaw was spot on when he said the AFL was looking after the Pies after the Bruz non suspension, he called it after the QF...

 

[feelinfeline]

Any fair analysis starts with "the Pies won a flag after getting through a PF they shouldn't have won." Freo's Brayshaw was spot on when he said the AFL was looking after the Pies after the Bruz non suspension, he called it after the QF...

The AFL’s counsel argued for his guilt at the tribunal and considered appealing after he was let off. Michael Christian was opposed to it going to the tribunal and Laura Kane at the AFL overruled him.

Anyway, conspiracy theories are lots of fun.

 

[Munich]

The AFL’s counsel argued for his guilt at the tribunal and considered appealing after he was let off. Michael Christian was opposed to it going to the tribunal and Laura Kane at the AFL overruled him.

Anyway, conspiracy theories are lots of fun.

AFL is a business remember that first and foremost.

 

[feelinfeline]

AFL is a business remember that first and foremost.

Therefore it’s a conspiracy, right? Got it.

 

[And_ROOS]

The AFL’s counsel argued for his guilt at the tribunal and considered appealing after he was let off. Michael Christian was opposed to it going to the tribunal and Laura Kane at the AFL overruled him.

Anyway, conspiracy theories are lots of fun.

And the AFL put up a very weak case that was easy for Collingwood to have it thrown out. Quite a lot of businesses do very little to look like they are doing "something".

Guarantee that the next time something like this happens and its either mid season or a smaller club its a suspension.

 

[feelinfeline]

And the AFL put up a very weak case that was easy for Collingwood to have it thrown out. Quite a lot of businesses do very little to look like they are doing "something".

Guarantee that the next time something like this happens and its either mid season or a smaller club its a suspension.

So let me get this straight: the AFL spends tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars setting up GWS and then orchestrates their losing to Collingwood in a final? That would be monumentally stupid and very bad business. No, the AFL are desperate for GWS to succeed. They would also be very happy for Brisbane to win another flag and build their supporter base. Good for business.

Funny that when Richmond supporters claim conspiracies about Steven Hocking engineering Geelong’s success, we are outraged, but then we make up our own conspiracies. Oh yeah, Geelong wins finals on their own but Collingwood needs the AFL’s help.

Remember Hawkins’s kick that hit the post but was called a goal in the 2009 GF? You think St Kilda supporters didn’t call it a conspiracy? Of course they did.

Every close game has contentious umpiring decisions. Collingwood had some luck in all their finals, but Brisbane actually won the free kick count in the GF, 22 to 16. So lousy job by the AFL if it was a conspiracy.

 

[And_ROOS]

So let me get this straight: the AFL spends tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars setting up GWS and then orchestrates their losing to Collingwood in a final? That would be monumentally stupid and very bad business. No, the AFL are desperate for GWS to succeed. They would also be very happy for Brisbane to win another flag and build their supporter base. Good for business.

Funny that when Richmond supporters claim conspiracies about Steven Hocking engineering Geelong’s success, we are outraged, but then we make up our own conspiracies. Oh yeah, Geelong wins finals on their own but Collingwood needs the AFL’s help.

Remember Hawkins’s kick that hit the post but was called a goal in the 2009 GF? You think St Kilda supporters didn’t call it a conspiracy? Of course they did.

Every close game has contentious umpiring decisions. Collingwood had some luck in all their finals, but Brisbane actually won the free kick count in the GF, 22 to 16. So lousy job by the AFL if it was a conspiracy.

You don't think the AFL doesn't make MORE money with the merchandise from a successful Collingwood season? All the Grand Final merch, all the money they will spend next year, on the back of their insane money they spent and their high attendance numbers this year.

Tell me, how much money would a GWS flag bring into the AFL coffers via merchandise, tickets for next season, memberships, sponsorships etc.

Also weird how no one can explain how Daicos poor tackle that had Daniels off for the rest of the game with a HIA check in a PF didn't even get looked at when if it was Rd 3 its a 2 week suspension down to one.

The AFL has favourites, and the Pies are one of them. Its not a conspiracy when you have seen it so often and consistently.

Also are you saying if VAR wasn't around Hawkins poster wouldn't have been reviewed?

As for the free kick count, it doesn't take into account decisions like the "advantage" that helped Collingwood more than Brisbane. Especially when we have seen them frequently called back.

 

[feelinfeline]

You don't think the AFL doesn't make MORE money with the merchandise from a successful Collingwood season? All the Grand Final merch, all the money they will spend next year, on the back of their insane money they spent and their high attendance numbers this year.

Tell me, how much money would a GWS flag bring into the AFL coffers via merchandise, tickets for next season, memberships, sponsorships etc.

Also weird how no one can explain how Daicos poor tackle that had Daniels off for the rest of the game with a HIA check in a PF didn't even get looked at when if it was Rd 3 its a 2 week suspension down to one.

The AFL has favourites, and the Pies are one of them. Its not a conspiracy when you have seen it so often and consistently.

Also are you saying if VAR wasn't around Hawkins poster wouldn't have been reviewed?

As for the free kick count, it doesn't take into account decisions like the "advantage" that helped Collingwood more than Brisbane. Especially when we have seen them frequently called back.

Oh, it's not a conspiracy, it's just the AFL controlling and manipulating every single aspect of the game. Sounds like a conspiracy to me. Just like Steve Hocking used to do.

GWS is losing massive amounts of money. The AFL are desperate to turn that around. Of course they wouldn't make as much money if GWS won, but they've got a massive amount riding on whether GWS survive at all, and to survive they have to win premierships.

How do you explain GWS beating Collingwood by 4 points in the 2019 prelim? How do you explain Sydney beating Collingwood by 1 point in the prelim last year? Surely the AFL, if they control everything and are desperate for Collingwood to win, wouldn't have allowed them to happen. They would have made much more money if Collingwood had won. Not so consistent after all it seems.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue with you anymore because I know I'm not going to convince you.

I'm not saying there are never any conspiracies, but where other people see conspiracies, I generally see human weakness and incompetence. There's plenty of that in the AFL.

 

[Partridge]

A Grand Final appearance just under every 3 years - i didnt know that - like 1 in every 3 years - and working out a mean average - with over 125 years etc - so it stacks up statistically pretty good

The thing is with most supporters - or alot of them from every club - if you lose a game your hopeless - and if you lose a GF - your a choker - your this and that - you just get thrown under the back wheels of the bus with all the other losers

Like in 2020 - Rich were the best team and Premiers - but i gave the Cats a pass mark for making the GF - and giving the Tigers a fright in the 1st half

So if you look at from 1960 onwards

1964 - they lost to Melb by less than a goal - and were in front with less than a minute to play - however if you analyse it a bit closer - Melb beat Coll by about 14 goals in the 2nd semi - if there was betting on that GF - The Dees would have been $1.10 and Magpies about $6 - so they got beaten in the final seconds - thats 1 of their 43 losses - would have been a famous win - you cant be critical of their performance in that GF

1966 - I thought Stk and Coll were equally the 2 best teams that year . The Saints were very strong right throughout the 60s - up until about 72 actually . Saints played off in the 65 GF - so they were hunting a flag . Coll did beat them in the 2nd semi - Tuddy kicked 7 goals i can remember that. In the GF the Saints won their only flag by a point - whoever lost it would be a heart breaker - so in my opinion that GF was an absolute flip of the coin

1970 - I went to this one - so im qualified to give my opinion on this one - they were clearly the best team - and easily the best Coll side ive seen to this day . But bad kicking for goal leaves the door ajar - and i actually can remember thinking to myself at the time - midway through the 2nd qtr - i think big Jenkin had taken a mark right in front of us - this is a massacre - it was so 1 sided - Coll should have been 13-15 goals up at h/t - and the game is totally out of reach of Carlton . So 70 definitely slipped through the net - but wasteful kicking for goal in the 1st half was the killer

1977 - this 1 would sting also - about 4 goals up at 3 qtr time - they have got 1 big out/excuse - Carmen getting suspended - stupidly hitting Tuck - it would be like J Cameron getting suspended and missing the GF - I think it is fair comment to say - Carmen plays in that GF - THEY WIN

79/80/81 - they wernt the best team - especially 80 and 81 - Rich and Carl respectively were clearly the best team in those years . In 79 i can remember listening to Dyer on the radio in the aftermatch - and he absolutely hated Coll - however he gave them credit - he said you have to give Coll credit - they kept coming and coming in that last qtr - and he meant that - you could tell how he said it . 80 - was probably their worst performance in a GF - but did come up against a frightenly good Rich team - Magpies did us a big favour beating us in the PF - Malarkey was injured and out - and Rich had Cloke and Roach in the goalsquare - we would have got flogged in that GF - no question about it . 1981 Carlton were clearly the best team finished minor premier - won the 2nd Semi - went straight into the GF and won the flag

Early 2000 they lost 2 GFs to Lions 3 peat team - the one where they lost narrowly - and Malthouse has consistently said - that is the proudest hes been re a GF performance - because they had a pretty limited team - so that performance gets a big tick in my opinion . The other one where they were quite favoured to have a decent shot at it - it was probably their 2nd poorest effort behind the Rich one - from memory they beat Bris in the QF - so they were fancied - something might have happened to Anthony Rocca - so i cant remember

And the more recent GF - everyone has seen those

So with GFs - i think you have to look at them one by one - to get a fair analysis of it - who was the best side that year - and who ended up winning the Premiership

Great analysis. I reckon by your account 1970 sounds a lot like 1998 and 2008 for North and Geelong. The best side just kicked horribly when it mattered and left the door open.

The other factor I guess is Collingwood made a lot of Grand finals in the early days of the competition. Much easier to make finals when there were only 8 teams instead of 12 or 18. Still had to get there though - although the finals systems in the 1920s in particular was a mess.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Anyone who thinks the AFL are competent enough to pull off an actual conspiracy aren't paying attention.

It's like people saying the CIA did 9/11. They can't even keep their own agents identities secret but they did that, yeah ok thanks for the insight Karen.

 

[Shell]

Just chatted to a diehard, older Pies supporter this morning at work.

Was just so happy for him, you can see what it really means for these lifelong supporters.

 

[Shell]

He couldnt even go to the after parties/celebrations cause the match took that much out of him

I dont blame him.. 09 was an absolute ordeal. Not to mention the 07 prelim.

 

[And_ROOS]

Just chatted to a diehard, older Pies supporter this morning at work.

Was just so happy for him, you can see what it really means for these lifelong supporters.

I mean, they have 3 flags in the AFL era and win one every 10 years or so, I don't really get how it can mean that much compared to Saints and Bulldogs fans who are starved of success.

The Pies supporters this week have been worse than the Tiggies fans in 2019, and they were unbearable. Gotta hope the Flogpies miss finals next year if they went back to back I would have to move to Antarctica or somewhere.

 

[Shell]

I mean, they have 3 flags in the AFL era and win one every 10 years or so, I don't really get how it can mean that much compared to Saints and Bulldogs fans who are starved of success.

The Pies supporters this week have been worse than the Tiggies fans in 2019, and they were unbearable. Gotta hope the Flogpies miss finals next year if they went back to back I would have to move to Antarctica or somewhere.

One of the stupidest comments on BF I've read for a while..