Game Day Pre-Season - West Coast vs Adelaide (Fri)

[Vader]

Vader from the thread '"The Fog" Will he make it?

Excellent predictive power. Always correct as you'll see if you can just read and understand it properly.

... and then the player & club finally did something about it. Full credit to them both. Pity it took them 4+ years to do so.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Also, what about Travis Head?

 

[Vader]

Just don't militantly repeat the same mistakes with Thilthorpe, and blindly defend poor handling and attack the kid because he's not instantly a superstar. He's shown more than enough to deserve investment. He needs AFL football and plenty of it.

I'm not expecting him to be an instant superstar, and I'm absolutely acknowledging that he has the talent - and will (hopefully) be an excellent player for us in the long term. But right now, he's not performing anywhere near his potential - and he shouldn't be selected until the penny drops for him, as it did for Fogarty last year.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'm not expecting him to be an instant superstar, and I'm absolutely acknowledging that he has the talent - and will (hopefully) be an excellent player for us in the long term. But right now, he's not performing anywhere near his potential - and he shouldn't be selected until the penny drops for him, as it did for Fogarty last year.

The penny never drops for Fogarty if you have your way. That's the problem with your default defence of our long term selection policy.

A talented kid who has some struggles is a 'donkey who has no AFL future'. Write him off if there's a senior player with marginally better present performance.

 

[Thylacinus]

At 190cm, unless he’s got more growing in him, I cant see welsh as a tex replacement..

Fog is the tex replacement.

I’m hoping welsh, with his speed, skills and marking ability is encouraged to push into the midfield over the next two years to see if he can add even more strings to his bow.

He looks to have a fairly solidly developed frame already.. he could be one of those early bloomer lads and doesnt have much growth highwise left in him..

His old man only made it to 188cm but he played in a different era. KPF’s these days are your 194/195cm to 200cm+ lads..

If he doesnt get taller than his current 190cm.. he isnt gonna be a KPF. He’s gonna be more a medium tall forward.

Welsh has only just gone 16 and a half years of age. We just don't know yet how tall he will be and whether he will be that medium third tall type or a KPF that, as you say, would be more around the 194 plus, although Pavlich, who may have had some similair traits, is listed as only being 192. Regardless, it is exciting that we will have access to what is promising to be an elite talent, and if we trade out our 2024 first round pick next year, we may well pick him up very cheaply while really strengthen our list no end next year. I really do struggle to understand those who are so pressimistic about our ongoing rebuild!

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Didn't West Coast make finals in 19 and 20?

After the 2018 flag, the Eagles looked set for a dynasty. Heaps of elite players in their prime plus some exciting Kids. They have finished 5th, 5th 9th and 17th yet there are still people saying they will zoom up the ladder (like Poort Pear fans last week ).

It’s a bit like us in 2020, the team looked OK on paper but history shows we were cooked.

I think it will take a while before The Eagles are pushing for the Eight. Their experienced players are in decline and the next gen hasn’t arrived yet.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I think I'd rather we persist with Thilthorpe. He still has potential to be a great player. Himmelberg is a known quantity. Depth and nothing more.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I really do struggle to understand those who are so pressimistic about our ongoing rebuild!

It really all just comes down to an elite midfielder, and where we get one from.

JHF deciding to come home a year early was a bit of a stick in the spokes I think

 

[Thylacinus]

I'm not expecting him to be an instant superstar, and I'm absolutely acknowledging that he has the talent - and will (hopefully) be an excellent player for us in the long term. But right now, he's not performing anywhere near his potential - and he shouldn't be selected until the penny drops for him, as it did for Fogarty last year.

I'm with you on this one. I am very confident TT will be a star and it will not be too long before he overtakes Himmelberg. But for now make him earn it. He will be the better player for it in the long run, as has happened with Walker, Fogarty etc.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I'm with you on this one. I am very confident TT will be a star and it will not be too long before he overtakes Himmelberg. But for now make him earn it. He will be the better player for it in the long run, as has happened with Walker, Fogarty etc.

Oh here we go with the re-writes of history. Walker and Fog have made it despite our "development" doing its best to **** them up, not because of it.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Welsh has only just gone 16 and a half years of age. We just don't know yet how tall he will be and whether he will be that medium third tall type or a KPF that, as you say, would be more around the 194 plus, although Pavlich, who may have had some similair traits, is listed as only being 192. Regardless, it is exciting that we will have access to what is promising to be an elite talent, and if we trade out our 2024 first round pick next year, we may well pick him up very cheaply while really strengthen our list no end next year. I really do struggle to understand those who are so pressimistic about our ongoing rebuild!

Again..

Like Scott Welsh, Pavlich was from a different era..

The games changed..

Your KPF’s of the past were 185-195cm tall..

The modern KPF is 194/195cm plus.

Hell, dunstall and lockett were 188 and 191 respectively..

The game has evolved to have/rely on taller players in both the forward line and midfield..

 

[Jeffcrowe]

The thing I actually like is if we get enough ball into our forward we will kick goals - that is a given.

With Tex, Fog, Rankine, Rachele, McAdam - it has the total wow factor. If you can’t get excited then you are likely dead.

Also remembering we played against close to the best 2 intercept marking key defender combo in comp ( probably May / Lever the other )

They did a take alot of marks against us but we still scored well

 

[GrommoT]

Soligo is already a star. I look forward to him getting the ball because I really enjoy watching him dispose of it. This contrasts with many others where I just grit my teeth and shut my eyes. He is good at everything and makes very, very few mistakes. We should extend his contract again right now.

The club needs to get him (and other Vic kids Rach, Berry, Taylor, ...) hitched up with local girls with strong family ties (yeah, assumptions, I know). This will go a long way to help retaining them down the track.

 

[Samcro24]

It really all just comes down to an elite midfielder, and where we get one from.

JHF deciding to come home a year early was a bit of a stick in the spokes I think

I’d like two I think. A ready made free agent, and a single digit draft pick “chosen one” type.

We’ve never landed the former in the free agent era, while the latter takes a few years to develop. Hard to see where it comes from.

 

[1990crow]

Again..

Like Scott Welsh, Pavlich was from a different era..

The games changed..

Your KPF’s of the past were 185-195cm tall..

The modern KPF is 194/195cm plus.

Hell, dunstall and lockett were 188 and 191 respectively..

The game has evolved to have/rely on taller players in both the forward line and midfield..

Why not just wait and skip the melt down?
He's 16, 190cm and likely to grow at least 2cm. Grow 4-5 and he's a kpf.

 

[Vader]

Again..

Like Scott Welsh, Pavlich was from a different era..

The games changed..

Your KPF’s of the past were 185-195cm tall..

The modern KPF is 194/195cm plus.

Hell, dunstall and lockett were 188 and 191 respectively..

The game has evolved to have/rely on taller players in both the forward line and midfield..

He's only 16 1/2 years old. He still has growing to do.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Again..

Like Scott Welsh, Pavlich was from a different era..

The games changed..

Your KPF’s of the past were 185-195cm tall..

The modern KPF is 194/195cm plus.

Hell, dunstall and lockett were 188 and 191 respectively..

The game has evolved to have/rely on taller players in both the forward line and midfield..

In the end a good player is a good player

Tex only 192cm+ and looks plenty big enough as key forward

Welsh speed being able to run a 2.91s 20m , if he comes off development wise without growing we get a Gunston style of player

All nice pieces to add

 

[Golumless]

Welsh has only just gone 16 and a half years of age. We just don't know yet how tall he will be and whether he will be that medium third tall type or a KPF that, as you say, would be more around the 194 plus, although Pavlich, who may have had some similair traits, is listed as only being 192. Regardless, it is exciting that we will have access to what is promising to be an elite talent, and if we trade out our 2024 first round pick next year, we may well pick him up very cheaply while really strengthen our list no end next year. I really do struggle to understand those who are so pressimistic about our ongoing rebuild!

The last decade really took its toll.

 

[GrommoT]

We have developed some depth, so we should be able to minimise the tiring factor by rotating players throughout the season.

We will get some inconsistency with young players, but cam cop that as long as we are tracking the right direction.

Don't reckon this helps that much - they just have to build up their tank and adjust to AFL levels.

Even if they're not playing in the 1's, they'd be playing in the 2's and then there's training. Guess the list will start all fresh and in good nick, and gradually wear down as the season grinds on - matter of how long they can go on for.

 

[50BC]

He missed a couple of goals, but his overall game was very good.

You are of course right. Forwards who can be relied on to actually contribute to the scoreboard are over rated. It's not like that's their only job.
For what is worth, I do agree that Himmelberg has been better than TT right now. Maybe I'm wrong and Himmelberg is a late bloomer and will have the kind of breakout at 25 that Fog had at 22. That would be great if he did, I'd be delighted.
But I fear he will continue to be a 1 goal a game forward.
If we were in or close to a premiership window, I'd select Himmelberg. But I think TT will have a much higher ceiling eventually and the quicker he gets experience the quicker he will reach it.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Anyone else willing to admit that our midfield talent is maybe better than first thought ?

If Taylor can get really fit and we are able to draft an A + grader it looks ok to me

Soligo in there looked sensational last night , don’t want him copping too many knocks until his body is ready but long term could be our mid star

As for Rachele ….. he’s doing it with less than half a midfield tank and looks sublime at times


Schoenberg burst speed out of there with ball in hand looks just what we need , and watching him closely last night he was willing to do unrewarded offensive running and also alot in defence , his close down speed is a weapon

Not there yet but midfield is showing some positive signs

…. A really good ruck would be nice

 

[Dangerousfield]

More bouyant about 2023 with every passing week. I've been a past critic of our rebuild but hats off to the club, it's accelerating nicely. Dawson and Rankine were bonuses none of us saw coming 18 months back.

Great that we no longer have limited talent spuds in the 22, so many players with genuine talent and upside, depth is building as well.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Why not just wait and skip the melt down?
He's 16, 190cm and likely to grow at least 2cm. Grow 4-5 and he's a kpf.

Melt down?..

Relax.. It a conversation.. i’m just pointing out some of the facts.

You really have your cranky pants on of late dontcha!..

Welsh is currently 16 years old… 190cm tall and filling out his body..


He already looks like this..

All I’m saying is if he doesnt grow any taller than he is now which is very possible as his dad isnt that tall.. then he aint gonna be a Tex replacement as Vader stated.

I’m hoping that they push him towards a midfield/forward role in his remaining junior seasons before his draft and he can add more strings to his bow.

He has blistering speed, talent in spades, overhead marking strength and great skills..

Should be able to bring these to the midfield.

 

[WetCrow1991]

The penny never drops for Fogarty if you have your way. That's the problem with your default defence of our long term selection policy.

A talented kid who has some struggles is a 'donkey who has no AFL future'. Write him off if there's a senior player with marginally better present performance.

Imagine if Adelaide United had the same selection policy as the Crows. A generational talent would be stuck in the youth league until they were over 18 rather than playing with managed game time and being a walking highlights reel, and match winner.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Melt down?..

Relax.. It a conversation.. i’m just pointing out some of the facts.

You really have your cranky pants on of late dontcha!..

Welsh is currently 16 years old… 190cm tall and filling out his body..

View attachment 1621086
He already looks like this..

All I’m saying is if he doesnt grow any taller than he is now which is very possible as his dad isnt that tall.. then he aint gonna be a Tex replacement as Vader stated.

I’m hoping that they push him towards a midfield/forward role in his remaining junior seasons before his draft and he can add more strings to his bow.

He has blistering speed, talent in spades, overhead marking strength and great skills..

Should be able to bring these to the midfield.

Hybrid forward teamed with Thilthorpe and Fog sounds ideal , very balanced and talented mix