Game Day Pre-Season - West Coast vs Adelaide (Fri)

[Kane McGoodwin]

We just need to temper ourselves by understanding most still are kids - we will tire in some games and as the season progresses

There has been a fair bit of sarcasm over the last 12 months from some regarding the “magical 50 games” when the more optimistic have suggested this is where we need to get too to improve.
This game shows how much improvement another pre season can provide an extremely young squad - and that when they start becoming fit enough to compete more consistently they improve rapidly. But also the older players around them look better as they don’t need to absorb all the pressure
Not all about games played although important - but definitely pre seasons completed are critical

And a more mature squad even makes a coach look okay!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We have developed some depth, so we should be able to minimise the tiring factor by rotating players throughout the season.

We will get some inconsistency with young players, but cam cop that as long as we are tracking the right direction.

 

[Mostyn]

I did yesterday and they say I’m all negative….

The selections were bang on, Dawson even spent time on the wing.

The pressure was immense and our quick ball movement was a delight to watch and look at the score we racked up and what we kept them too as a result.

We are going to put a lot of defences under pressure if we move quickly and well. Then the forward line pressure will kick in if we spill it.

I think what Dawson/Sloane/Hinge are doing now is exactly what Dawson did at Sydney - wings sit slightly behind the play (not just outside it), and act as part of the defensive wall, but also as an attacking/rebounding weapon.

 

[Mutineer]

Our willingness to take the game on down the middle out of our D50 was beautiful to watch last night. ROB even got involved in good handball chains a couple of times.

Fog is just so damn fit now, works up and down the ground and is also applying defensive pressure when required.

Pedlar was also working his arse off and kept involved with the game, he’s building. That goal he kicked from a Sloane pass involved sprinting from the contest that he and Sloane were involved with together 50 metres up the field.

Schoenberg, Berry and Soligo all looking slick through the middle and Laird just being Laird.

Cannot ask for anymore than that performance heading into round one!

Schoenberg needs to get that just chucking it on the boot and bombing it forward shyte out of his game pronto, 2 glaring examples last night where our key forwards were nowhere near where his bombs were sent....straight into WCE defenders arms with no opponent within 10 metres.

 

[1970crow]

Mcadam and and Rankine also underrated tacklers.

mcadam defensive aspect not underrated by me, I reckon he's awesome.

 

[Mostyn]

He was certainly invisible yesterday, because he didn't play.

Nothing about Himmelberg's pre season form warrants AFL selection. Especially yesterday he played exactly like he has at AFL level so far, which is to say below an acceptable standard.

But it seems like we're set to repeat the mistakes of prior years where we pick on "form" in meaningless games and at training over talent.

Luckily the rest of the side is being selected well at the moment

That's a bit harsh.

There's one spot. Himmelburg has been okay, Thilthorpe less so.

The decision is justified, even if I hope it changes reasonably soon.

 

[Vader]

I see Thilthorpe taking Himmelberg spot when his form improve and Welsh will be 3-4 years away, don't see Walker playing for that long.

Reasonable, but I think there are a few variables in play - most notably Walker's longevity, how long it takes for Thilthorpe's penny to drop (as it finally did for Fogarty in 2022), and whether or not Welsh's underage trajectory projects to the AFL level.

We just don't know how long Walker will be able to maintain his current form. 2023 could be his swansong, or he could still be playing in 2025, both are almost equally plausible scenarios given his recent form. If he's still playing in 2025, then the Walker-Out-Welsh-In window could be fairly short.

Thilthorpe will almost certainly take Berg's spot - but when? Right now, he appears to be miles off it. He has the talent, but it's just not translating to performance. Whether it's a lack of strength, fitness, or confidence, I don't know. All I do know is that Berg is massively outperforming him right now, and Thilthorpe needs to lift significantly if he is to win his way back into the AFL team.

Welsh is, of course, the biggest unknown - given that he won't even be on our team list for another 19 months. Will his underage development continue? Will it stall, as so many SA U18s seem to do in their draft year? How long will he take to transition from U18s to AFL, assuming he does continue to develop? He should be the long-term replacement for Walker, based on his underage performances to date, in which case the likes of Gollant are probably just short-term replacements, pending Welsh's development.

 

[George Kramer]

Schoenberg needs to get that just chucking it on the boot and bombing it forward shyte out of his game pronto, 2 glaring examples last night where our key forwards were nowhere near where his bombs were sent....straight into WCE defenders arms with no opponent within 10 metres.

Yeah he did that twice but the rest of the time his disposal was decent

 

[Southerntakeover]

Reasonable, but I think there are a few variables in play - most notably Walker's longevity, how long it takes for Thilthorpe's penny to drop (as it finally did for Fogarty in 2022), and whether or not Welsh's underage trajectory projects to the AFL level.

...

Thilthorpe will almost certainly take Berg's spot - but when? Right now, he appears to be miles off it. He has the talent, but it's just not translating to performance. Whether it's a lack of strength, fitness, or confidence, I don't know. All I do know is that Berg is massively outperforming him right now, and Thilthorpe needs to lift significantly if he is to win his way back into the AFL team.

It's wild that you're so incapable that you're unable to learn from your embarassing Fogarty behaviour even when referencing the outcome.

 

[1970crow]

Schoenberg needs to get that just chucking it on the boot and bombing it forward shyte out of his game pronto, 2 glaring examples last night where our key forwards were nowhere near where his bombs were sent....straight into WCE defenders arms with no opponent within 10 metres.

maybe players do learn from the senior guys they played with.

 

[Vader]

It's wild that you're so incapable that you're unable to learn from your embarassing Fogarty behaviour even when referencing the outcome.

I was 100% correct in everything I said about Fogarty. However, you believe that his farts were smelling like rainbows, even at the times when he was stinking up the joint horrendously - so I certainly wouldn't expect you to acknowledge the validity of my arguments.

There's nothing wrong in pointing out that Thilthorpe is currently miles off the mark. He has the talent, but so far that is not translating to performance. Eventually (I hope) the penny will drop, as it did with Fog last year.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Reasonable, but I think there are a few variables in play - most notably Walker's longevity, how long it takes for Thilthorpe's penny to drop (as it finally did for Fogarty in 2022), and whether or not Welsh's underage trajectory projects to the AFL level.

We just don't know how long Walker will be able to maintain his current form. 2023 could be his swansong, or he could still be playing in 2025, both are almost equally plausible scenarios given his recent form. If he's still playing in 2025, then the Walker-Out-Welsh-In window could be fairly short.

Thilthorpe will almost certainly take Berg's spot - but when? Right now, he appears to be miles off it. He has the talent, but it's just not translating to performance. Whether it's a lack of strength, fitness, or confidence, I don't know. All I do know is that Berg is massively outperforming him right now, and Thilthorpe needs to lift significantly if he is to win his way back into the AFL team.

Welsh is, of course, the biggest unknown - given that he won't even be on our team list for another 19 months. Will his underage development continue? Will it stall, as so many SA U18s seem to do in their draft year? How long will he take to transition from U18s to AFL, assuming he does continue to develop? He should be the long-term replacement for Walker, based on his underage performances to date, in which case the likes of Gollant are probably just short-term replacements, pending Welsh's development.

At 190cm, unless he’s got more growing in him, I cant see welsh as a tex replacement..

Fog is the tex replacement.

I’m hoping welsh, with his speed, skills and marking ability is encouraged to push into the midfield over the next two years to see if he can add even more strings to his bow.

He looks to have a fairly solidly developed frame already.. he could be one of those early bloomer lads and doesnt have much growth highwise left in him..

His old man only made it to 188cm but he played in a different era. KPF’s these days are your 194/195cm to 200cm+ lads..

If he doesnt get taller than his current 190cm.. he isnt gonna be a KPF. He’s gonna be more a medium tall forward.

 

[50BC]

To be fair, Himmelberg has significantly outperformed Thilthorpe so far this pre-season, in both the intra-club and match-sim. He's earned his place in the team for now. We all know that Himmelberg is prone to having purple patches, followed by runs of horrendous form, so I doubt this is a permanent situation - but he's earned incumbency for now.

With ROB seemingly a permanent fixture as #1 ruck, and Tex & Fog locked in as 2 of the 3x KPFs, there's only room for 1x ruck/fwd - and for now, that's Himmelberg.

That was probably true before last night, I thought Himmelberg played himself out of the team last night, very surprised they didn't swap him with TT for the second half

 

[jackster83]

Watching the replay now.

Getting a bit of movement watching some of Rachele's play. Wow.

 

[Thylacinus]

The thing I actually like is if we get enough ball into our forward we will kick goals - that is a given.

With Tex, Fog, Rankine, Rachele, McAdam - it has the total wow factor. If you can’t get excited then you are likely dead.

Indeed, and now that he has got his body right, we can add yet another, Pedlar,to this expanding glee club!

 

[Vader]

That was probably true before last night, I thought Himmelberg played himself out of the team last night, very surprised they didn't swap him with TT for the second half

Were we watching the same game? Himmelberg was pretty good last night, far better than anything Thilthorpe has shown in any of the pre-season hitouts this year.

 

[Southerntakeover]

I was 100% correct in everything I said about Fogarty. However, you believe that his farts were smelling like rainbows, even at the times when he was stinking up the joint horrendously - so I certainly wouldn't expect you to acknowledge the validity of my arguments.

There's nothing wrong in pointing out that Thilthorpe is currently miles off the mark. He has the talent, but so far that is not translating to performance. Eventually (I hope) the penny will drop, as it did with Fog last year.

You humiliated yourself on Fogarty, and demonstrated that other than a militant defence of the club's line on performance and prioritising older players you have absolutely nothing to offer. A fact that didn't really need proving for anyone that had encountered the idiocy you dress up as 'arguments' over any extended time.

You spent most of the start of last year making the exact same argument that you're now making against Thilthorpe- you argued that Himmelberg was better and therefore should be prioritised above him. History proved that this opinion sucked.

You were entirely unable to predict career trajectories, because at your core you do not understand football: you only bring to the table the mewling bureaucratism of a low tier pissant clinging to selection policy.

 

[George Kramer]

You humiliated yourself on Fogarty, and demonstrated that other than a militant defence of the club's line on performance and prioritising older players you have absolutely nothing to offer. A fact that didn't really need proving for anyone that had encountered the idiocy you dress up as 'arguments' over any extended time.

You spent most of the start of last year making the exact same argument that you're now making against Thilthorpe- you argued that Himmelberg was better and therefore should be prioritised above him. History proved that this opinion sucked.

You were entirely unable to predict career trajectories, because at your core you do not understand football: you only bring to the table the mewling bureaucratism of a low tier pissant clinging to selection policy.

I’m glad he hasn’t put you on ignore yet and will read this.

Ask him about Travis Head

 

[Southerntakeover]

Some of Vaders 'always correct' opinions on Fogarty from last year:

What amuses me, reading this thread, are all the calls for Himmelberg to be dropped - but so few calling for Fogarty's head. Don't get me wrong - Himmelberg was awful, and definitely deserves to be dropped - but Fogarty was equally revolting. Both of these players are absolutely deplorable, and so far off being AFL standard that it's not funny, yet only one of them is singled out for "fire him into the sun" type comments.

I don't want to keep either of them, but given the choice - it's Himmelberg over Frampton, every day of the week, and twice on game day.

In Fogarty, Billy & Berg we have 3 donkeys, none of whom have a long term future at AFL level. The tragedy is that we can't replace them all at the same time, and TT is our only other KPF under the age of 30. It's a diabolical situation that we find ourselves in.

Given the lack of alternatives, it's likely that we will be forced to select some of them for far more games than their talent actually justifies (I'd argue all 3 are already past that marker)... but they should/will all be replaced as soon as it is possible for us to do so.

 

[50BC]

Were we watching the same game? Himmelberg was pretty good last night, far better than anything Thilthorpe has shown in any of the pre-season hitouts this year.

His return from playing forward was 2 points and 1 out of bounds on the full. That has to be marked a fail.
He was okay in the ruck but Jamieson was absolutely no ruck competition whatsoever.
Himmelberg is close to turning 25, I don't know if there is much development left in him tbh.

 

[Vader]

You humiliated yourself on Fogarty, and demonstrated that other than a militant defence of the club's line on performance and prioritising older players you have absolutely nothing to offer. A fact that didn't really need proving for anyone that had encountered the idiocy you dress up as 'arguments' over any extended time.

You spent most of the start of last year making the exact same argument that you're now making against Thilthorpe- you argued that Himmelberg was better and therefore should be prioritised above him. History proved that this opinion sucked.

You were entirely unable to predict career trajectories, because at your core you do not understand football: you only bring to the table the mewling bureaucratism of a low tier pissant clinging to selection policy.

Congratulations on demonstrating your complete inability to read & comprehend my previous posting. We all know you think the sun shines out of Fog's backside, and read every post (particularly mine) through this lens.

My position on Fogarty was consistent - massively talented, but needed to significantly improve his fitness & work rate. Yes, there were weight issues associated with the fitness/work rate issues as well. It is no surprise to me that success has followed, once he finally addressed the flaws in his game, because his talent was always obvious. The only surprise with Fogarty is that it took him almost 5 years before the penny dropped.

 

[Vader]

His return from playing forward was 2 points and 1 out of bounds on the full. That has to be marked a fail.
He was okay in the ruck but Jamieson was absolutely no ruck competition whatsoever.
Himmelberg is close to turning 25, I don't know if there is much development left in him tbh.

He missed a couple of goals, but his overall game was very good.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Congratulations on demonstrating your complete inability to read & comprehend my previous posting. We all know you think the sun shines out of Fog's backside, and read every post (particularly mine) through this lens.

My position on Fogarty was consistent - massively talented, but needed to significantly improve his fitness & work rate. Yes, there were weight issues associated with the fitness/work rate issues as well. It is no surprise to me that success has followed, once he finally addressed the flaws in his game, because his talent was always obvious. The only surprise with Fogarty is that it took him almost 5 years before the penny dropped.

I literally quoted you saying he was a donkey with no long term future at AFL football.

Turns out just lying and trying to re-write your positions retrospectively doesn't work?

 

[Mutineer]

 

[Southerntakeover]

Vader from the thread '"The Fog" Will he make it?

Excellent predictive power. Always correct as you'll see if you can just read and understand it properly.

If a player shows no signs of improvement after 4 years and 34 games, there's a reasonably good expectation that improvement will not be forthcoming.

 

[Southerntakeover]

And here's my point in all of this: there were plenty of people who were wrong about Fogarty. The receipts exist, so there's no point just pretending that's not the case. And it's ok to have been wrong.

Just don't militantly repeat the same mistakes with Thilthorpe, and blindly defend poor handling and attack the kid because he's not instantly a superstar. He's shown more than enough to deserve investment. He needs AFL football and plenty of it.