Training Pre Season - Who's deadset training the house down 2024 style.

[rustycrate]

How can we have stuffed up by acquiring a player of his ability, even if he doesn't crack the 22? It's good depth.

Which is what we needed.

 

[Dan87]

Why would Jordon leave Melbourne and his best 22 spot and take an offer to be a fringe player and tank his earning potential.

Maybe that's what's happened but I think the club probably got him for a reason

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Why would Jordon leave Melbourne and his best 22 spot and take an offer to be a fringe player and tank his earning potential.

Maybe that's what's happened but I think the club probably got him for a reason

Not sure where your belief that Jordon was best XXII at Melbourne comes from.

I once again quote Mofra:

“A 22 year old midfielder with 65 games under his belt, Jordon has spent half his career getting either subbed on or subbed off. He’s such a sub expert, ScoMo paid the French not to build him”.

 

[Dan87]

Not sure where your belief that Jordon was best XXII at Melbourne comes from.

I once again quote Mofra:

“A 22 year old midfielder with 65 games under his belt, Jordon has spent half his career getting either subbed on or subbed off. He’s such a sub expert, ScoMo paid the French not to build him”.

He's playing regular AFL football, best 23 then. He's going to make a decision that keeps him playing regular AFL football. Like, he's not going to put that in jeopardy when he's a free agent because he wants to he a blood so bad, or maybe he will.

Anyways, it'll be an interesting watch

 

[caesar88]

Why would Jordon leave Melbourne and his best 22 spot and take an offer to be a fringe player and tank his earning potential.

Maybe that's what's happened but I think the club probably got him for a reason

Jordon played 18 of a possible 25 games for Melbourne but was subbed on or off in 8 of those 18. He wasn't selected in their first final.

He was going to be a fringe player no matter what, unless he went somewhere like North.

He is pretty clear on the reasons he left. He obviously saw more opportunities at the Swans than at Melbourne, but opportunities =/= guarantees.

No bad blood as perennial sub starts new chapter

Having struggled to find a permanent starting spot at Melbourne, James Jordon hopes his versatility will be an asset in Sydney

www.afl.com.au

 

[Dan87]

Jordon played 18 of a possible 25 games for Melbourne but was subbed on or off in 8 of those 18. He wasn't selected in their first final.

He was going to be a fringe player no matter what, unless he went somewhere like North.

He is pretty clear on the reasons he left. He obviously saw more opportunities at the Swans than at Melbourne, but opportunities =/= guarantees.

No bad blood as perennial sub starts new chapter

Having struggled to find a permanent starting spot at Melbourne, James Jordon hopes his versatility will be an asset in Sydney

www.afl.com.au

According to that article he didn't see opportunities. He was directly told of opportunities in a presentation by our club. In numerous positions and that his versatility will be utilised across those positions.

We'll just have to see maybe he starts in the VFL all good

 

[caesar88]

According to that article he didn't see opportunities. He was directly told of opportunities in a presentation by our club. In numerous positions and that his versatility will be utilised across those positions.

We'll just have to see maybe he starts in the VFL all good

Opportunities are just that though. They're not a guarantee of anything.

FWIW I think his best chance will be at taking Campbell's place. I believe Campbell had a few niggles that delayed his return to training back in Jan and has had his game time in match sims since managed. It's not much, he's basically fit, but doesn't take much just to fall a little behind the eight ball, so that could give Jordon an edge maybe.

 

[Ticky009]

 

[the hypnotoad]

Lots sleeping on Sheldrick, he’ll be best 22 all year.
He’s that good they’ll find a way to make sure here plays.

yes indeed!

 

[the hypnotoad]

He was un-droppable last year prior to injury.

Then won the club Rising Star Award.

I’d be very surprised if he wasn’t named come Round 1.

I can’t quite reconcile how some pundits have Jordon in & Sheldrick out of the best XXIII.

if you've got pundits, you'll need to get the pest guy in

 

[caesar88]

Going to be some very good players with something to prove in VFL.

And going to be a lot of disappointed fans it seems.

If you took every person's views then we have about 30 different players who are locks for the best 22!

 

[anotherletdown]

Why would Jordon leave Melbourne and his best 22 spot and take an offer to be a fringe player and tank his earning potential.

Maybe that's what's happened but I think the club probably got him for a reason

I doubt a 3 year deal for a fringe player is tanking earning potential. Maximising more likely.

 

[McRobie]

I dunno DQ, I've never seen Horse as the kind you describe in the bolded. To me that sounds more like a Luke Beveridge - we've got all these gun midfielders, let's put one on a wing, one at half forward, one in a back pocket etc. Horse seems to prefer his specialist players and I think lets his desire for certain attributes guide him towards the player who will bring them, rather than trying to guide the player he likes towards the attributes he desires.

That relates to Sheldrick because let's be honest, even if he is in the best 22, he's not gonna be on the inside as much as Parker, Adams, Rowbottom and Warner. He'd have to spend a fairly large portion of games off a flank or a forward pocket or something. The question Horse & co would then be asking is what Sheldrick will offer in the say 40% of time he spends inside going to be worth the 60% of time he spends forward instead of a pressure specialist like Wicks, or on a wing instead of a running specialist like Jordon.

Would be an interesting match selection committee to be a fly on the wall of!

I think Sheldrick is a better player than Rowbottom and will eat into his modified minutes. Not a knock on Rowbottom just think Sheldrick is a special.

 

[McRobie]

Opportunities are just that though. They're not a guarantee of anything.

FWIW I think his best chance will be at taking Campbell's place. I believe Campbell had a few niggles that delayed his return to training back in Jan and has had his game time in match sims since managed. It's not much, he's basically fit, but doesn't take much just to fall a little behind the eight ball, so that could give Jordon an edge maybe.

Jordan isn’t in the same postcode as Campbell. Campbell is all class and now coming on.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I dunno DQ, I've never seen Horse as the kind you describe in the bolded. To me that sounds more like a Luke Beveridge - we've got all these gun midfielders, let's put one on a wing, one at half forward, one in a back pocket etc. Horse seems to prefer his specialist players and I think lets his desire for certain attributes guide him towards the player who will bring them, rather than trying to guide the player he likes towards the attributes he desires.

That relates to Sheldrick because let's be honest, even if he is in the best 22, he's not gonna be on the inside as much as Parker, Adams, Rowbottom and Warner. He'd have to spend a fairly large portion of games off a flank or a forward pocket or something. The question Horse & co would then be asking is what Sheldrick will offer in the say 40% of time he spends inside going to be worth the 60% of time he spends forward instead of a pressure specialist like Wicks, or on a wing instead of a running specialist like Jordon.

Would be an interesting match selection committee to be a fly on the wall of!

I have a different pov. Horse seems to value adaptability over specialisation.

I think we have only a few specialist players. Beyond Hamling the rest of our prob defenders have and could play elesewhere. Fwiw I would not be the least surprised if McCartin got switched fwd and played damned well.

Grundy clearly struggles to play forward but most of the mids can and have played elsewhere. McLean I believe could play down back in a pinch and it seems they are educating Logan. It is however difficult to to see another string to Rowy’s bow, unless it is as a slightly more skilled upgrade on Clamps. Maybe that is in the mind of the coaches as they seek to improve the performance of the midfield and look at a pure tagging role for JR.

Wicks I see as pretty much a small fwd specialist, a role I think he is terrific at. Iirc, Buller played down back as a youngster (is that right Dubai Quacker ?).

 

[caesar88]

I have a different pov. Horse seems to value adaptability over specialisation.

I think we have only a few specialist players. Beyond Hamling the rest of our prob defenders have and could play elesewhere. Fwiw I would not be the least surprised if McCartin got switched fwd and played damned well.

Grundy clearly struggles to play forward but most of the mids can and have played elsewhere. McLean I believe could play down back in a pinch and it seems they are educating Logan. It is however difficult to to see another string to Rowy’s bow, unless it is as a slightly more skilled upgrade on Clamps. Maybe that is in the mind of the coaches as they seek to improve the performance of the midfield and look at a pure tagging role for JR.

Wicks I see as pretty much a small fwd specialist, a role I think he is terrific at. Iirc, Buller played down back as a youngster (is that right Dubai Quacker ?).

If the player Horse moves into a certain position or role isn't as good in that position or role as the specialist type they'd be replacing then I think he doesn't do it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

If the player Horse moves into a certain position or role isn't as good in that position or role as the specialist type they'd be replacing then I think he doesn't do it.

yep get the robbing a Pete to pay Paul argument. I think specialists have to be elite at their role and even then have a back up plan… we saw even with JPK that he was caught out in the back end of his career because of his lack of versatility.

For me Tom McCartin may be the best KPF on our list, but I doubt he will ever play fwd again.

 

[TheMase]

I doubt a 3 year deal for a fringe player is tanking earning potential. Maximising more likely.

Yeah I suspect the 3 years is the important point, job security.

He would have been told that given his versatility there will be plenty of opportunities for him to establish himself in a variety of roles over that time.

 

[DeathlyAccurate]

Generally with horses we go male or female (or mare, gelding/stallion). People don't often call horses men or women

Our coach is literally a man and a horse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sataris]

A 30 year old defender who averages 14 possions a game,

Nick Smith averages 14.1 disposals a game.

Harry averages 14.7 disposals a game.

Harry makes more tackles too.

 

[dosser]

Nick Smith averages 14.1 disposals a game.

Harry averages 14.7 disposals a game.

Harry makes more tackles too.

Smooch didn't have to tackle because his opponent never got the ball.

Dosser goes 'BANG'

 

[caesar88]

(LONG POST INCOMING...)

There's been much discussion about the best 22, all the many possibilities and options we have at our disposal, the varying views on who should or shouldn't be in the team come round 1. I thought I would try and sort through all of those options, and present a for and against argument for each of them.

(This is operating under the assumption that there are 15 non-negotiables, at least for round 1 - Warner, McLean, Adams, Grundy, Heeney, McDonald, Rowbottom, Papley, Florent, Gulden, Blakey, Rampe, Parker, McCartin, Lloyd - while the rest not mentioned below won't feature in selection talks unless earned later in the year through the VFL.)

Harry Cunningham
FOR - Put simply he's the most capable defender we have at shutting down the competition's best small forwards. He's also experienced, on track to notch up game 200 this year and a member of the leadership group last season.
AGAINST - Shutting down the competition's best small forward is really the only edge he has over anyone else on the list. If someone like Florent proves just as capable, or a fellow veteran like Rampe takes over that role, it could spell trouble for Cunningham.

Will Hayward
FOR - He has runs on the board, and importantly has goals on the board. Even when he has barely looked up to the standard, he has still had five seasons with 20+ goals. That's hard to dismiss, even for a critic of his (which I am.)
AGAINST - He just didn't have a good 2023, and I think it's probably made him fallible in the eyes of selectors. If a resting mid or another small forward emerges in the pre-season and the forward line fires, that could negate the need for someone like Hayward.

Aaron Francis
FOR - According to Lachlan McKirdy, Francis has had an outstanding pre-season. You can't ask for much more from someone who was mostly depth last year and is chasing a spot in defence that is very much up for grabs.
AGAINST - As already mentioned, he was mostly depth last year. So he's starting from behind the pack a little, while he's also not known for being that kind of 1v1 defender that his rivals Melican & Hamling are, and that may be more the kind we're after.

Angus Sheldrick
FOR - He fits the bill of the sort of player we need - ie. a tough, inside clearance player - and his status at the club as "next mid on the assembly line" meant a big pre-season from him could very well put him in the selection frame.
AGAINST - His position is probably hardest to crack, despite what we may think. Four staples of the team plus a new trade recruit in Adams all ahead of him means Sheldrick's chances may hinge on showing he can contribute in roles outside of his preferred one.

Sam Wicks
FOR - Until proven otherwise, no one does forward pressure like Wicks. It's manic and leads to 50/50 wins up around the arc that get things going our way. I believe this is why he's often Horse's go-to man for that kind of role.
AGAINST - Horse may decide to go a different route - more of an attacking forward (Konstanty), more of a lockdown forward (Fox), or a resting mid or wingman rotating through there. Wicks has to prove his pressure can be more valuable than those options.

Braeden Campbell
FOR - Probably the most outright talented name who will feature in this post. His speed and energy and thumping boot can make him a very dangerous player, which he's proven in glimpses here and there throughout his career so far.
AGAINST - He's only proven he can be a very dangerous player in glimpses here and there throughout his career. If Horse values experience, or consistency, this is where Campbell, if he's still a patchy, albeit promising, kid could lose out.

James Jordon
FOR - He's a big unit, and relatively mature and experience compared to some of the guys he'll be up against. Working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him and he can now start over new.
AGAINST - Not working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him. Is he good enough? Is he better than McInerney or Campbell? Can he be a best 22, week in, week out option for Horse? We just can't know yet.

Jacob Konstanty
FOR - Based on little evidence so far beyond hype and talent assessments of him, Konstanty is the best chance at bridging the individual games of fellow smalls Papley & Wicks together - he brings the pressure of Wicks and the goal sense of Papley.
AGAINST - All of the above is based on little evidence, which means he's got his work cut out to prove it. It's do-able, but he'd need a near-perfect pre-season to put his hand up ahead of a crowded field.

Peter Ladhams
FOR - He is tall, and can play in the ruck. Having those prerequisites on an AFL list pretty much guarantees you a chance at playing senior footy at some point throughout an AFL season. Having said that, he's shown he is more than good enough when in form.
AGAINST - His best chance will likely be playing predominantly forward, which may not suit him, particularly when there are others - McLean, Amartey & Reid - who have more compelling histories of playing the ruck/forward role.

Sam Reid
FOR - I had him in our top 3 most important players in an incredible run of games that took us to a grand final in 2022. That has to mean something, as it set the blueprint for how a Sam Reid

20

Sam Reid

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.4

3star

type leading the forward half can be successful.
AGAINST - 2022 was a long time ago now, especially for a 32 year old who hasn't played since then and is coming off yet another round of soft tissue injuries. That setback may also have been just enough for the Hydra to all have overtaken him. Time will tell.

Justin McInerney
FOR - McInerney was once discussed as one of our very best youngsters, a name that well and truly belonged alongside Blakey, Rowbottom, Warner and Gulden. He was that impressive - slick, dynamic, and skilful. That McInerney would walk into this team.
AGAINST - He is no longer in that conversation, and a few lean years has seen him fall more and more away from that best footy he's capable of. Now he's no walk-up start, and has to earn that high standing in the team all over again. He can do it, but will he?

Joel Hamling
FOR - He is more experienced than his rivals Melican & Francis, having played in big finals and for multiple clubs. It could prove the pivotal difference in what may be a splitting-hairs decision.
AGAINST - He is older than his rivals Melican & Francis, so if it really does come down to splitting hairs, there's a chance the selectors opt for the younger player who could have a long future contributing to our back-line.

Matt Roberts
FOR - For the second year in a row, Roberts has had a smashing pre-season from all accounts, and is undeniably this year's pre-season hype-boy (sorry Dyl Stephens, but you chose to leave!) Roberts' adaptability to a half back role has also opened up new doors for him.
AGAINST - There's not much to go on that makes it easy for us to confidently root for Roberts to be in the team, having not shown much in his previous outings. We just have to trust that his coaches and teammates are seeing something there.

Joel Amartey
FOR - Being one third of the Hydra has Amartey well-placed to be given every chance to claim his spot. He's kicked bags, and has shown good form as a lead-up forward, which in a post-Buddy world is very much needed.
AGAINST - He just hasn't done the above consistently enough to make him a guaranteed starter, while his knack for getting injured at inopportune times means it will be hard to feel assured of Amartey's place in the round 1 team until that first ball is bounced.

Corey Warner
FOR - Supposedly bulked-up big-time this off-season, and had an impressive summer playing on the wing. He has the pace of his brother, and also the hardness which means he can go inside, or simply be a wingman who is not a wilting flower like many.
AGAINST - That wing rotation is just a crowded field at present, headlined by our reigning club champion and three players in that 50-80 game mark that's more desirable to a coach than Warner's 3 games so far. No word of him being used anywhere else, either.

Robbie Fox
FOR - A versatile player and the quintessential utility, Fox has been tried as sort of a pressure forward this pre-season, and his maturity and experience combined with his versatility has always - pretty much since day one for him - made him an option for Horse.
AGAINST - Being ousted from the role he's played most of his footy - certainly his best footy - in feels very much like a last-chance for Fox to prove himself completely valuable to the team. If it doesn't work out, then I fear for our favourite school teacher...

Lewis Melican
FOR - Similar to Fox, he's always been thereabouts for Horse, a handy option as a key defender who can both shut down opponents and be an aerial threat. His last game in the semi-final was outstanding and he's made it through a February without injuries!
AGAINST - Hamstrings.

 

[Kiama Chris]

(LONG POST INCOMING...)

There's been much discussion about the best 22, all the many possibilities and options we have at our disposal, the varying views on who should or shouldn't be in the team come round 1. I thought I would try and sort through all of those options, and present a for and against argument for each of them.

(This is operating under the assumption that there are 15 non-negotiables, at least for round 1 - Warner, McLean, Adams, Grundy, Heeney, McDonald, Rowbottom, Papley, Florent, Gulden, Blakey, Rampe, Parker, McCartin, Lloyd - while the rest not mentioned below won't feature in selection talks unless earned later in the year through the VFL.)

Harry Cunningham
FOR - Put simply he's the most capable defender we have at shutting down the competition's best small forwards. He's also experienced, on track to notch up game 200 this year and a member of the leadership group last season.
AGAINST - Shutting down the competition's best small forward is really the only edge he has over anyone else on the list. If someone like Florent proves just as capable, or a fellow veteran like Rampe takes over that role, it could spell trouble for Cunningham.

Will Hayward
FOR - He has runs on the board, and importantly has goals on the board. Even when he has barely looked up to the standard, he has still had five seasons with 20+ goals. That's hard to dismiss, even for a critic of his (which I am.)
AGAINST - He just didn't have a good 2023, and I think it's probably made him fallible in the eyes of selectors. If a resting mid or another small forward emerges in the pre-season and the forward line fires, that could negate the need for someone like Hayward.

Aaron Francis
FOR - According to Lachlan McKirdy, Francis has had an outstanding pre-season. You can't ask for much more from someone who was mostly depth last year and is chasing a spot in defence that is very much up for grabs.
AGAINST - As already mentioned, he was mostly depth last year. So he's starting from behind the pack a little, while he's also not known for being that kind of 1v1 defender that his rivals Melican & Hamling are, and that may be more the kind we're after.

Angus Sheldrick
FOR - He fits the bill of the sort of player we need - ie. a tough, inside clearance player - and his status at the club as "next mid on the assembly line" meant a big pre-season from him could very well put him in the selection frame.
AGAINST - His position is probably hardest to crack, despite what we may think. Four staples of the team plus a new trade recruit in Adams all ahead of him means Sheldrick's chances may hinge on showing he can contribute in roles outside of his preferred one.

Sam Wicks
FOR - Until proven otherwise, no one does forward pressure like Wicks. It's manic and leads to 50/50 wins up around the arc that get things going our way. I believe this is why he's often Horse's go-to man for that kind of role.
AGAINST - Horse may decide to go a different route - more of an attacking forward (Konstanty), more of a lockdown forward (Fox), or a resting mid or wingman rotating through there. Wicks has to prove his pressure can be more valuable than those options.

Braeden Campbell
FOR - Probably the most outright talented name who will feature in this post. His speed and energy and thumping boot can make him a very dangerous player, which he's proven in glimpses here and there throughout his career so far.
AGAINST - He's only proven he can be a very dangerous player in glimpses here and there throughout his career. If Horse values experience, or consistency, this is where Campbell, if he's still a patchy, albeit promising, kid could lose out.

James Jordon
FOR - He's a big unit, and relatively mature and experience compared to some of the guys he'll be up against. Working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him and he can now start over new.
AGAINST - Not working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him. Is he good enough? Is he better than McInerney or Campbell? Can he be a best 22, week in, week out option for Horse? We just can't know yet.

Jacob Konstanty
FOR - Based on little evidence so far beyond hype and talent assessments of him, Konstanty is the best chance at bridging the individual games of fellow smalls Papley & Wicks together - he brings the pressure of Wicks and the goal sense of Papley.
AGAINST - All of the above is based on little evidence, which means he's got his work cut out to prove it. It's do-able, but he'd need a near-perfect pre-season to put his hand up ahead of a crowded field.

Peter Ladhams
FOR - He is tall, and can play in the ruck. Having those prerequisites on an AFL list pretty much guarantees you a chance at playing senior footy at some point throughout an AFL season. Having said that, he's shown he is more than good enough when in form.
AGAINST - His best chance will likely be playing predominantly forward, which may not suit him, particularly when there are others - McLean, Amartey & Reid - who have more compelling histories of playing the ruck/forward role.

Sam Reid
FOR - I had him in our top 3 most important players in an incredible run of games that took us to a grand final in 2022. That has to mean something, as it set the blueprint for how a Sam Reid type leading the forward half can be successful.
AGAINST - 2022 was a long time ago now, especially for a 32 year old who hasn't played since then and is coming off yet another round of soft tissue injuries. That setback may also have been just enough for the Hydra to all have overtaken him. Time will tell.

Justin McInerney
FOR - McInerney was once discussed as one of our very best youngsters, a name that well and truly belonged alongside Blakey, Rowbottom, Warner and Gulden. He was that impressive - slick, dynamic, and skilful. That McInerney would walk into this team.
AGAINST - He is no longer in that conversation, and a few lean years has seen him fall more and more away from that best footy he's capable of. Now he's no walk-up start, and has to earn that high standing in the team all over again. He can do it, but will he?

Joel Hamling
FOR - He is more experienced than his rivals Melican & Francis, having played in big finals and for multiple clubs. It could prove the pivotal difference in what may be a splitting-hairs decision.
AGAINST - He is older than his rivals Melican & Francis, so if it really does come down to splitting hairs, there's a chance the selectors opt for the younger player who could have a long future contributing to our back-line.

Matt Roberts
FOR - For the second year in a row, Roberts has had a smashing pre-season from all accounts, and is undeniably this year's pre-season hype-boy (sorry Dyl Stephens, but you chose to leave!) Roberts' adaptability to a half back role has also opened up new doors for him.
AGAINST - There's not much to go on that makes it easy for us to confidently root for Roberts to be in the team, having not shown much in his previous outings. We just have to trust that his coaches and teammates are seeing something there.

Joel Amartey
FOR - Being one third of the Hydra has Amartey well-placed to be given every chance to claim his spot. He's kicked bags, and has shown good form as a lead-up forward, which in a post-Buddy world is very much needed.
AGAINST - He just hasn't done the above consistently enough to make him a guaranteed starter, while his knack for getting injured at inopportune times means it will be hard to feel assured of Amartey's place in the round 1 team until that first ball is bounced.

Corey Warner
FOR - Supposedly bulked-up big-time this off-season, and had an impressive summer playing on the wing. He has the pace of his brother, and also the hardness which means he can go inside, or simply be a wingman who is not a wilting flower like many.
AGAINST - That wing rotation is just a crowded field at present, headlined by our reigning club champion and three players in that 50-80 game mark that's more desirable to a coach than Warner's 3 games so far. No word of him being used anywhere else, either.

Robbie Fox
FOR - A versatile player and the quintessential utility, Fox has been tried as sort of a pressure forward this pre-season, and his maturity and experience combined with his versatility has always - pretty much since day one for him - made him an option for Horse.
AGAINST - Being ousted from the role he's played most of his footy - certainly his best footy - in feels very much like a last-chance for Fox to prove himself completely valuable to the team. If it doesn't work out, then I fear for our favourite school teacher...

Lewis Melican
FOR - Similar to Fox, he's always been thereabouts for Horse, a handy option as a key defender who can both shut down opponents and be an aerial threat. His last game in the semi-final was outstanding and he's made it through a February without injuries!
AGAINST - Hamstrings.

Superb post Caesar. Don't agree 100% but pretty close. Where I do is easy. The locks. Most of the rest.
Where I don't:
1) Hayward and Wicks are more about Horse's game plan (assuming they are fit and in form) than their form. If he wants to play that way they'll be picked.
2) Francis I think is more in line for an interceptor role than a second KPD. He may get a run against a team that plays two talls with Melican and Hamling missing out. Eg Demons.
3) Sheldrick might get a run if Horse plays 5 inside mids (Parker, Adams, Rowbottom, Warner, Sheldrick) but I don't think that depends on his ability to play another position. More reducing TOG for the older guys.
Thanks for that!

 

[tombomb]

Will Hayward
FOR - He has runs on the board, and importantly has goals on the board. Even when he has barely looked up to the standard, he has still had five seasons with 20+ goals. That's hard to dismiss, even for a critic of his (which I am.)
AGAINST - He just didn't have a good 2023, and I think it's probably made him fallible in the eyes of selectors. If a resting mid or another small forward emerges in the pre-season and the forward line fires, that could negate the need for someone like Hayward.

I think both Hayward and Heeney really suffered last year with Reid being out.

With more key position depth this year, and hopefully a better injury run, they won't have to be up on the wing being used as a bail out target down the line.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

(LONG POST INCOMING...)

There's been much discussion about the best 22, all the many possibilities and options we have at our disposal, the varying views on who should or shouldn't be in the team come round 1. I thought I would try and sort through all of those options, and present a for and against argument for each of them.

(This is operating under the assumption that there are 15 non-negotiables, at least for round 1 - Warner, McLean, Adams, Grundy, Heeney, McDonald, Rowbottom, Papley, Florent, Gulden, Blakey, Rampe, Parker, McCartin, Lloyd - while the rest not mentioned below won't feature in selection talks unless earned later in the year through the VFL.)

Harry Cunningham
FOR - Put simply he's the most capable defender we have at shutting down the competition's best small forwards. He's also experienced, on track to notch up game 200 this year and a member of the leadership group last season.
AGAINST - Shutting down the competition's best small forward is really the only edge he has over anyone else on the list. If someone like Florent proves just as capable, or a fellow veteran like Rampe takes over that role, it could spell trouble for Cunningham.

Will Hayward
FOR - He has runs on the board, and importantly has goals on the board. Even when he has barely looked up to the standard, he has still had five seasons with 20+ goals. That's hard to dismiss, even for a critic of his (which I am.)
AGAINST - He just didn't have a good 2023, and I think it's probably made him fallible in the eyes of selectors. If a resting mid or another small forward emerges in the pre-season and the forward line fires, that could negate the need for someone like Hayward.

Aaron Francis
FOR - According to Lachlan McKirdy, Francis has had an outstanding pre-season. You can't ask for much more from someone who was mostly depth last year and is chasing a spot in defence that is very much up for grabs.
AGAINST - As already mentioned, he was mostly depth last year. So he's starting from behind the pack a little, while he's also not known for being that kind of 1v1 defender that his rivals Melican & Hamling are, and that may be more the kind we're after.

Angus Sheldrick
FOR - He fits the bill of the sort of player we need - ie. a tough, inside clearance player - and his status at the club as "next mid on the assembly line" meant a big pre-season from him could very well put him in the selection frame.
AGAINST - His position is probably hardest to crack, despite what we may think. Four staples of the team plus a new trade recruit in Adams all ahead of him means Sheldrick's chances may hinge on showing he can contribute in roles outside of his preferred one.

Sam Wicks
FOR - Until proven otherwise, no one does forward pressure like Wicks. It's manic and leads to 50/50 wins up around the arc that get things going our way. I believe this is why he's often Horse's go-to man for that kind of role.
AGAINST - Horse may decide to go a different route - more of an attacking forward (Konstanty), more of a lockdown forward (Fox), or a resting mid or wingman rotating through there. Wicks has to prove his pressure can be more valuable than those options.

Braeden Campbell
FOR - Probably the most outright talented name who will feature in this post. His speed and energy and thumping boot can make him a very dangerous player, which he's proven in glimpses here and there throughout his career so far.
AGAINST - He's only proven he can be a very dangerous player in glimpses here and there throughout his career. If Horse values experience, or consistency, this is where Campbell, if he's still a patchy, albeit promising, kid could lose out.

James Jordon
FOR - He's a big unit, and relatively mature and experience compared to some of the guys he'll be up against. Working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him and he can now start over new.
AGAINST - Not working in his favour is that he had a frustrating stint at Melbourne that made it hard to judge him. Is he good enough? Is he better than McInerney or Campbell? Can he be a best 22, week in, week out option for Horse? We just can't know yet.

Jacob Konstanty
FOR - Based on little evidence so far beyond hype and talent assessments of him, Konstanty is the best chance at bridging the individual games of fellow smalls Papley & Wicks together - he brings the pressure of Wicks and the goal sense of Papley.
AGAINST - All of the above is based on little evidence, which means he's got his work cut out to prove it. It's do-able, but he'd need a near-perfect pre-season to put his hand up ahead of a crowded field.

Peter Ladhams
FOR - He is tall, and can play in the ruck. Having those prerequisites on an AFL list pretty much guarantees you a chance at playing senior footy at some point throughout an AFL season. Having said that, he's shown he is more than good enough when in form.
AGAINST - His best chance will likely be playing predominantly forward, which may not suit him, particularly when there are others - McLean, Amartey & Reid - who have more compelling histories of playing the ruck/forward role.

Sam Reid
FOR - I had him in our top 3 most important players in an incredible run of games that took us to a grand final in 2022. That has to mean something, as it set the blueprint for how a Sam Reid type leading the forward half can be successful.
AGAINST - 2022 was a long time ago now, especially for a 32 year old who hasn't played since then and is coming off yet another round of soft tissue injuries. That setback may also have been just enough for the Hydra to all have overtaken him. Time will tell.

Justin McInerney
FOR - McInerney was once discussed as one of our very best youngsters, a name that well and truly belonged alongside Blakey, Rowbottom, Warner and Gulden. He was that impressive - slick, dynamic, and skilful. That McInerney would walk into this team.
AGAINST - He is no longer in that conversation, and a few lean years has seen him fall more and more away from that best footy he's capable of. Now he's no walk-up start, and has to earn that high standing in the team all over again. He can do it, but will he?

Joel Hamling
FOR - He is more experienced than his rivals Melican & Francis, having played in big finals and for multiple clubs. It could prove the pivotal difference in what may be a splitting-hairs decision.
AGAINST - He is older than his rivals Melican & Francis, so if it really does come down to splitting hairs, there's a chance the selectors opt for the younger player who could have a long future contributing to our back-line.

Matt Roberts
FOR - For the second year in a row, Roberts has had a smashing pre-season from all accounts, and is undeniably this year's pre-season hype-boy (sorry Dyl Stephens, but you chose to leave!) Roberts' adaptability to a half back role has also opened up new doors for him.
AGAINST - There's not much to go on that makes it easy for us to confidently root for Roberts to be in the team, having not shown much in his previous outings. We just have to trust that his coaches and teammates are seeing something there.

Joel Amartey
FOR - Being one third of the Hydra has Amartey well-placed to be given every chance to claim his spot. He's kicked bags, and has shown good form as a lead-up forward, which in a post-Buddy world is very much needed.
AGAINST - He just hasn't done the above consistently enough to make him a guaranteed starter, while his knack for getting injured at inopportune times means it will be hard to feel assured of Amartey's place in the round 1 team until that first ball is bounced.

Corey Warner
FOR - Supposedly bulked-up big-time this off-season, and had an impressive summer playing on the wing. He has the pace of his brother, and also the hardness which means he can go inside, or simply be a wingman who is not a wilting flower like many.
AGAINST - That wing rotation is just a crowded field at present, headlined by our reigning club champion and three players in that 50-80 game mark that's more desirable to a coach than Warner's 3 games so far. No word of him being used anywhere else, either.

Robbie Fox
FOR - A versatile player and the quintessential utility, Fox has been tried as sort of a pressure forward this pre-season, and his maturity and experience combined with his versatility has always - pretty much since day one for him - made him an option for Horse.
AGAINST - Being ousted from the role he's played most of his footy - certainly his best footy - in feels very much like a last-chance for Fox to prove himself completely valuable to the team. If it doesn't work out, then I fear for our favourite school teacher...

Lewis Melican
FOR - Similar to Fox, he's always been thereabouts for Horse, a handy option as a key defender who can both shut down opponents and be an aerial threat. His last game in the semi-final was outstanding and he's made it through a February without injuries!
AGAINST - Hamstrings.

Great post caesar88 - a really enjoyable read.

Only one comment - when it comes to Francis, I see the big “against” as his surprising lack of pace. In fact, he makes McL look like Usain Bolt.

He has size, strength, skill, courage and game awareness - but for a number 6 draft pick with all those attributes to have never really established himself as an AFL player means there’s a piece missing. And in my view - it’s speed (or lack thereof).