Preview R1: Changes for 2025

[Trigger13]

With minimal injures, can’t see how Dowling or Jones play for the club again. Both aren’t going to make it. Taylor and Bond worth persisting with though.

 

[Cromulant]

With minimal injures, can’t see how Dowling or Jones play for the club again. Both aren’t going to make it. Taylor and Bond worth persisting with though.

That's a huge call.

Dowling showed a bit last year

 

[skam85]

With minimal injures, can’t see how Dowling or Jones play for the club again. Both aren’t going to make it. Taylor and Bond worth persisting with though.

i'm not sure which Dowling you were watching

 

[Trigger13]

i'm not sure which Dowling you were watching

The one who has no real weapons. Decent player. But, if we’re fair dinkum, he’s not the type of player that elevates us to contender. We need to raise the bar

 

[1990crow]

The one who has no real weapons. Decent player. But, if we’re fair dinkum, he’s not the type of player that elevates us to contender. We need to raise the bar

He might not be an "elevator" but to suggest he couldn't be role player or bench player is just silly.

 

[BucketsNj]

I'm not surprised that those outside the club still think Laird deserves a role in our midfield.

Laird is a bit like a shit sandwich.

For people outside the club that only give a quick glance over the stats, all they see is two nice fresh pieces of bread. It's not until you actually dig a bit deeper and take a bite that you realise what's actually hidden underneath those stats.

The guy was our top midfielder during some very depressing years.
He’s only ever tried his guts out for the last decade.
He may not be the player he was, but calling him a shit sandwich - really?
Get a bit of decency and class.

 

[Trigger13]

He might not be an "elevator" but to suggest he couldn't be role player or bench player is just silly.

People were saying Shoenberg was going to make it after his first year. It’s far too easy to say a player is good enough to carve out a good afl career, when in reality it’s much harder. I’m not sure what his weapons are that make him a player who will be there when the whips are cracking for us. He’s not fast or overly athletic, average disposal and not that good overhead. Works hard and is at real competitor though. So maybe he can refine the other stuff and prove me wrong.

 

[1990crow]

People were saying Shoenberg was going to make it after his first year. It’s far too easy to say a player is good enough to carve out a good afl career, when in reality it’s much harder. I’m not sure what his weapons are that make him a player who will be there when the whips are cracking for us. He’s not fast or overly athletic, average disposal and not that good overhead. Works hard and is at real competitor though. So maybe he can refine the other stuff and prove me wrong.

I think his real weapon is football brain. Knows where to run to, contest to contest player. Can rotate to half forward and because of his natural height get his hands free.

 

[CroCop]

i'm not sure which Dowling you were watching

Agree I thought Dowling was good for his first year . Didn’t look rattled plus I think his best position would be midfield not wing or half forward which is where they mainly played him .

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

i'm not sure which Dowling you were watching

Imo, he is decent depth... but should be part of around 30 players we should manage during the season to keep the squad fresh.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

People were saying Shoenberg was going to make it after his first year.

I don’t think anybody is saying Dowling is a guarantee to make it. But big difference between that and “shouldn’t play another game for the club”, which is a overly-definitive statement for any second year player let alone one that has shown promise.

 

[Cromulant]

I don’t think anybody is saying Dowling is a guarantee to make it. But big difference between that and “shouldn’t play another game for the club”, which is a overly-definitive statement for any second year player let alone one that has shown promise.

Ridiculous statement, is what id call it.

 

[Trigger13]

Ridiculous statement, is what id call it.

I just don’t think he’ll make it. Not such a ridiculous statement at all. Wouldn’t get a game at most clubs and doesn’t have any stand-out attributes.

 

[Cromulant]

I just don’t think he’ll make it. Not such a ridiculous statement at all. Wouldn’t get a game at most clubs and doesn’t have any stand-out attributes.

He might not make it but to say "he should never play another game for the club" is absolutely ridiculous, when he showed more than enough to warrant staying in the side.

He's a big boy, strong over the ball, can get forward and kick goals.

Plenty to work with.

 

[WeeBlake]

I just don’t think he’ll make it. Not such a ridiculous statement at all. Wouldn’t get a game at most clubs and doesn’t have any stand-out attributes.

At this very early stage he looks like he could well be a reliable 18-22 level player. He might end up better, he might end up worse.

 

[Golumless]

I just don’t think he’ll make it. Not such a ridiculous statement at all. Wouldn’t get a game at most clubs and doesn’t have any stand-out attributes.

Considering Dowling finished 2024 with a 0.7 goal assist per game record in his stretch here, the opposite is more likely to be true. Other teams would have played him more than us in the last two years.

Sometimes attributes can be overrated and production underrated.

 

[CDC60]

Considering Dowling finished 2024 with a 0.7 goal assist per game record in his stretch here, the opposite is more likely to be true. Other teams would have played him more than us in the last two years.

Sometimes attributes can be overrated and production is underrated.

At this stage after two years in the system you'd have to consider Dowling and Bond are both pass marks at Picks #43 and #50. They've both shown promise that they could have decent AFL careers and there are few players taken after them in the draft you could argue that we missed.

 

[Golumless]

At this stage after two years in the system you'd have to consider Dowling and Bond are both pass marks at Picks #43 and #50. They've both shown promise that they could have decent AFL careers and there are few players taken after them in the draft you could argue that we missed.

I dunno if this is the point of the draft where you care about pass/fail.

Whilst I too have questions on what Dowling ceiling is, I think it's a very brave call to say "not good enough, no weapons" at this point. Especially on a guy who is producing offensively.

 

[DroppingTheBall]

Well, let's compare our Round 1 lineups for 2023 and 2024:-

2023


2024


I see a total of 8 changes:

Out: Brown, Doedee, Murray, Walker, Sloane, McAdam, Schoenberg, Himmelberg

In: Worrell, Borlase, Scholl, Jones, Burgess, Gollant, Crouch, Murphy

I wonder if there will be another 8 changes when we compare Round 1 lineups from 2024 to 2025? 35% of the lineup seems like a lot of change... but 3 of the 8 outs were due to injury.

cheers

 

[Jcpdragonx]

People were saying Shoenberg was going to make it after his first year. It’s far too easy to say a player is good enough to carve out a good afl career, when in reality it’s much harder. I’m not sure what his weapons are that make him a player who will be there when the whips are cracking for us. He’s not fast or overly athletic, average disposal and not that good overhead. Works hard and is at real competitor though. So maybe he can refine the other stuff and prove me wrong.

Dowling will be fine, he is versatile, high work rate, gets to the right spots. Disposal was ok. Didn’t even get a chance to play his position, there is a bit to work with.

Shoenberg is not versatile, poor work rate, poor disposal, had more than enough time now. He is in the discard pile.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Dowling has some nice traits - composure, footy smarts (even if his skills aren’t the best yet), accumulation, plus he’s accurate and dangerous in front of goal

IMO he’s not best 22 to start next year, but he clearly has the potential to get there

 

[Danger in Texas]

Dowling will be fine, he is versatile, high work rate, gets to the right spots. Disposal was ok. Didn’t even get a chance to play his position, there is a bit to work with.

Shoenberg is not versatile, poor work rate, poor disposal, had more than enough time now. He is in the discard pile.

Schoenberg should’ve been off the list this year. We shouldn’t have given him a two-year deal so early in 2023

 

[AFC979810]

I wonder if there will be another 8 changes when we compare Round 1 lineups from 2024 to 2025? 35% of the lineup seems like a lot of change... but 3 of the 8 outs were due to injury.

cheers

I would imagine there would be a whole host of changes - possibly even more in 2025.

From that 2024 starting lineup - I would only have 13 of the following players as automatic starts for 2025 -

Soligo, Hinge, Crouch, Laird, O'Brien, Fogarty, Rachele, Rankine, Keays, Dawson, Sholl, Max, Worrell.

Add to those 13 players - the automatic inclusions of our 3 recruits (ANB, Peatling, Cumming) plus the addition of Tilthorpe, Walker, Murray and we are at 19 of the 23 players.

One position will be taken by either Butts or Keane - takes us to 20 players.

Eliminating Burgess, Gollant and Borlase - that leaves the potentials Nankervis, Pedlar, Murphy, Berry, Jones, Milera, Smith, Dowling, Bond, Cook, Curtin, Pick 4, Taylor fighting for 2 spots and the sub.

Looks to me as though we have 6 auto inclusions with a coin flip at 7 (Keane/Butts).

An argument could be made for any of the other potentials. Nank was impressive in 2024, but isnt entrenched yet. Curtin played the last 5 games of 2024. Nicks loves Murphy. Jones with a strong preseason could sneak his way in. Nicks could forget how bad Smith looked in 2024 and automatically select him. Milera depends on how sharp he is returning from injury. Pick 4 - Nicks loved to debut draft picks in RD in 4 of his 5 years - so they are a chance.

Obviously injuries will play a crucial role - and you can usually expect to have 4-6 players unavailable round 1 due to injury.

 

[1970crow]

Well, let's compare our Round 1 lineups for 2023 and 2024:-

2023
View attachment 2164647

2024
View attachment 2164648

I see a total of 8 changes:

Out: Brown, Doedee, Murray, Walker, Sloane, McAdam, Schoenberg, Himmelberg

In: Worrell, Borlase, Scholl, Jones, Burgess, Gollant, Crouch, Murphy

I wonder if there will be another 8 changes when we compare Round 1 lineups from 2024 to 2025? 35% of the lineup seems like a lot of change... but 3 of the 8 outs were due to injury.

cheers

No longer at club - 3
Injury - 4

Leaves 1 decision based change and from memory, Berg was out for TT after being inexplicably picked ahead of him in that round 1 game in 2023. So you could argue that's a Burgo for TT injury change, so 0 unforced.

 

[Captain Furious]

I would imagine there would be a whole host of changes - possibly even more in 2025.

From that 2024 starting lineup - I would only have 13 of the following players as automatic starts for 2025 -

Soligo, Hinge, Crouch, Laird, O'Brien, Fogarty, Rachele, Rankine, Keays, Dawson, Sholl, Max, Worrell.

Add to those 13 players - the automatic inclusions of our 3 recruits (ANB, Peatling, Cumming) plus the addition of Tilthorpe, Walker, Murray and we are at 19 of the 23 players.

One position will be taken by either Butts or Keane - takes us to 20 players.

Eliminating Burgess, Gollant and Borlase - that leaves the potentials Nankervis, Pedlar, Murphy, Berry, Jones, Milera, Smith, Dowling, Bond, Cook, Curtin, Pick 4, Taylor fighting for 2 spots and the sub.

Looks to me as though we have 6 auto inclusions with a coin flip at 7 (Keane/Butts).

An argument could be made for any of the other potentials. Nank was impressive in 2024, but isnt entrenched yet. Curtin played the last 5 games of 2024. Nicks loves Murphy. Jones with a strong preseason could sneak his way in. Nicks could forget how bad Smith looked in 2024 and automatically select him. Milera depends on how sharp he is returning from injury. Pick 4 - Nicks loved to debut draft picks in RD in 4 of his 5 years - so they are a chance.

Obviously injuries will play a crucial role - and you can usually expect to have 4-6 players unavailable round 1 due to injury.

Don't think Sholl's a lock, if we're playing deep into finals, doubt he's in the team. If you were the opposition coach, would you rather to face Curtin, Nankervis, Milera...or Sholl? Even Dowling will get Sholl's possessions but also be a factor physically. He's a wingman who averages less than 2 inside 50s a game. Uncompetitive in the air (1 contested mark for the entire season) and uncompetitive at stoppage. He just runs all day. But that's pretty much it.