Preview RD 16 Geelong v Essendon Sat Jun 29 730pm @ MCG

[Cataholic]

he played VFL on the weekend?

He did, but I think I read somewhere he picked up a niggle during the match?

 

[00VicWard001]

Yeah, they were never losing the ruck battle so they basically just added dead weight

It’s almost a teaching experience for SDK, gets to learn from Goldstein and Draper.

 

[year of the cat]

I can only guess if Mannagh is happy or not.

I'll assume he isn't super happy.

The guy would be taking a pay cut to sit in the same comp he was dominating last year, but this year we aren't playing him in a position that gives him the chance to play like he did last year.

If he went to another club, he'd probably be playing most weeks and make at least double, if not triple what he'd be making this year.

The guy's partner just had a kid... not sure if she worked prior and is now down her wage (possibly).

Now Mannagh turns pro footballer and they'd be doing worse financially because he would have quit his full-time job in Altona and also won't be getting Werribee VFL payments (I do assume he got something for that).

We as a club selected him and have given him a chance... and whilst yes, we don't owe him anything (we got him contracted)... I look at it from afar and think "I don't love how we have gone about this from a human perspective".

I'm not even sure if he lives in Geelong... I wouldn't be surprised if he came from Werribee/Altona area each day.

He worked his ass off to finally be good enough in recruiter's eyes to be drafted... Then draft him and plonk him at full forward in the magoos.

I just don't love it and there's no way he'd be not at least thinking that he would have been better off playing elsewhere.

On the flip side... There is the possibility that got drafted by Freo (who were keen) and he'd be sitting in the WAFL also not playing and have his partner and baby interstate with him (away from support) whilst being basically on minimum wage... I think he'd be playing more if at another club that rated him. If he isn't good enough to be playing half-forward at a different club that is less stacked than us in that position then why would we draft him in the first place.

I also think it's about 5k per match payment... If he is not getting some games in the 1's, I reckon things would be tight.

So for me, I'm not as focused on him playing seniors as Pure_Ownage is, because the position we have him in the VFL deny's him any chance to progress (so I'm not shocked at all he isn't playing).

I'm more looking at it from how we might be doing this guy's career dirty by drafting him and I expect more from us as a club.

There's every chance the shine of his 2023 VFL season could be rubbed off and he being an extra year older means that other clubs may no longer want him.

From an outsider looking in... It's disappointing, although maybe Manngh is chuffed as can be and has no issues.

Why the heck would we use that draft pick on a 175cm 26-year-old and have him playing as an undersized FF in the VFL when he is a dynamic half-forward.

Someone has miscalculated here.

There is absolutely no legitimate reason he shouldn’t be in the team in front of Tuohy. Positionally. Form. Anything.

 

[FootyLad0]

There is absolutely no legitimate reason he shouldn’t be in the team in front of Tuohy. Positionally. Form. Anything.

I imagine the reason is that Stengle and Close are keeping him out of the side and if you want to play him further up the field Dempsey and Miers.

Still would like to try him on a wing, think he could absolutely play that role at Senior level.

 

[Cataholic]

It wasn't fear.

It was just a fish out of water. TDK is an in-form, stronger built ruckman while SDK is a down-on-form, more gangly player who is definitely not a ruckman. Those first few contests were always going to be brutal and I knew it was going to play out the way it did.

I'd be blaming the coaches more than SDK for that one, although I can understand they wanted to see if a radical move could spark the kid.

Agreed, definitely not a ruckman.

I wasn't suggesting a fear of the role. I'm of the belief he has a fear of physicality atm, and it's holding him back. Rucking involves a lot of body on body, so it was never going to be something he'd relish, unlike his brother.

Maybe it sparked something in him. Hopefully it did. But I'd prefer to see him playing defense again rather than being monstered by Goldie and Draper.

But we have problems with Conway and Stanley, and Blitz is poor atm, so hands are tied somewhat I guess.

 

[Cataholic]

Didn’t notice anything in the VFL.

Take it with salt, but I'm certain I heard / read somewhere that he'd pulled up with a niggle.

 

[BORIS332]

I imagine the reason is that Stengle and Close are keeping him out of the side and if you want to play him further up the field Dempsey and Miers.

Still would like to try him on a wing, think he could absolutely play that role at Senior level.

I think Mannagh could be a really good point of difference in our midfield. He was good when injected into the VFL midfield in the last quarter on the weekend. Hopefully he gets more time in there.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

We are talking about Mannagh not Stengle

Goops! Sorry

 

[moond0g]

He did, but I think I read somewhere he picked up a niggle during the match?

Hmmm, disappointing.

Regardless of how the SDK experiment turns out we need to recruit a mature ruck in the offseason. With Stanley to retire and Conway not often on the park, the cupboard is pretty bare.

 

[FootyLad0]

Goops! Sorry

 

[Heckler]

SDK ruck is not simply an experiment
Getting rag-dolled now will pay off in time.
Completive footballers hate being beaten.
This drives them to improve strength and skill.
It accelerates footy smarts and tactical nous.
SDK will learn to use his body to advantage better.
Ability to play multiple positions will benefit team.
Continuous improvement is slow but steady

 

[allrighty]

Yeah, he had a tough gig playing a different role, but for mine the bigger issue was that he was totally unprepared for how his opponent came at him physically.

I reckon TDK knows better than anyone about Sam's reluctance to engage with physicality, and took full advantage of that knowledge. He went at Sam hard, and Sam wilted.

To his credit he bounced back a bit in the second half. Hopefully that was the result of a rising self determination to not accept the bullying anymore, and to become more physical himself.

It'll be an interesting watch. We need the vintage 2022 Sam back.

 

[ButterMill]

Take it with salt, but I'm certain I heard / read somewhere that he'd pulled up with a niggle.

I read that coming into last weekend but haven't heard anything since and he played out the game well in the VFL. He was 3-4 held marks from having a monster game. He's really going to be very good. The ruck we've needed since Ottens. If the body can hold up.

 

[moond0g]

It takes two to tango though, how many clubs are going out of their way to chase him?

I'm not that concerned by what other clubs think.

But the situation does seem a little strange. Draft a 26yo with a pick in the 30s who has played both mid and forward in the VFL, then play him mainly as a forward when our AFL team is crying out for mids and are pretty well stocked up forward. Then he goes and performs well at VFL level as a forward (17 goals in 7 games) and you don't pick him anyway.

I don't necessarily think he should definitely be getting a game in our forward line because you have to drop someone (although close has certainly had a lean couple of months, albeit slightly different roles and Rohan has been average at times). But I don't see what more he could do to get picked, and therefore don't really understand the rationale in drafting him in the first place.

I'm curious what our plans were when drafting him. I don't think you use a pick as early as we did for someone that is 26/27 and is seen purely as a backup.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Other clubs were keen and going to take him for sure.

That's why we took him as early as we did and didn't wait until last picks.

Freo was keen and just lost Shultz... Can only assume they wanted Mannagh to step in for Shultz.

Someone on here even made an outrageous claim that Mannagh would have a better season than Shultz.

Haha yes I did and it didn't seem outrageous at the time

 

[CHAWKTS]

I would agree. He was totally unprepared for it - given he's never played ruck and has not been coached to do it.
Im sure there is a mindset for all athletes but that can also differ by their roles and positions.

And he got better in the second half.... but im still amazed at the depth of vitriol headed in his direction

GO Catters

I don’t understand it.

He was beaten up badly in the first qtr…but the in form ruckman in the competition. The game before our then (very very experienced) ruckman was beaten up badly after qtr time but the other inform ruckman in the completion.

I actually think SDK would have the prize for the best ruck game from a Cat this year? Not a high bar I know but despite how much I love Toby I don’t think he has had a game yet where he hasn’t been beaten badly (brisbane doesnt count given injury to opponent)? I might have forgotten one game?

But the point remains SDK in the ruck is actually an inspired choice (for now). It might not work but it certainly isn’t going to material hurt us in the short relative to the alternatives…and it might work (who knows) and either way I think will be really good for SDK development

 

[Cataholic]

I read that coming into last weekend but haven't heard anything since and he played out the game well in the VFL. He was 3-4 held marks from having a monster game. He's really going to be very good. The ruck we've needed since Ottens. If the body can hold up.

Not sure how / why they think SDK is a better option than Conway in the ruck then.

SDK is no better physically, and is better suited to defense imo, so not sure what they're up to.

 

[Cataholic]

I don’t understand it.

He was beaten up badly in the first qtr…but the in form ruckman in the competition. The game before our then (very very experienced) ruckman was beaten up badly after qtr time but the other inform ruckman in the completion.

I actually think SDK would have the prize for the best ruck game from a Cat this year? Not a high bar I know but despite how much I love Toby I don’t think he has had a game yet where he hasn’t been beaten badly (brisbane doesnt count given injury to opponent)? I might have forgotten one game?

But the point remains SDK in the ruck is actually an inspired choice (for now). It might not work but it certainly isn’t going to material hurt us in the short relative to the alternatives…and it might work (who knows) and either way I think will be really good for SDK development

Can see what you're saying......

Maybe it's a pathway they've chosen to accelerate his development, and / or a method to get him out of his current funk with physical contact?

 

[D BRIDGE]

Haha yes I did and it didn't seem outrageous at the time

Yeah I know it was you... and it wasn't outrageous.

I mentioned it to show that a spot was open for him to take at Freo... they were keen from all reports.

He might even make that claim true... The only issue is we aren't playing him, and Freo likely would have been.

So that's costing him games, experience & $$$ for sure. But we have him contracted and it's our right to play him wherever we wish.

I just don't think it looks good on a personal level from my eyes.

That's why I think he wouldn't be super pumped sitting at FF in the magoos for us, after doing all he could to finally get his chance and have multiple clubs keen to get him.

We have kinda dudded this guy & potentially wasted a usable draft pick.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm not that concerned by what other clubs think.

But the situation does seem a little strange. Draft a 26yo with a pick in the 30s who has played both mid and forward in the VFL, then play him mainly as a forward when our AFL team is crying out for mids and are pretty well stocked up forward. Then he goes and performs well at VFL level as a forward (17 goals in 7 games) and you don't pick him anyway.

I don't necessarily think he should definitely be getting a game in our forward line because you have to drop someone (although close has certainly had a lean couple of months, albeit slightly different roles and Rohan has been average at times). But I don't see what more he could do to get picked, and therefore don't really understand the rationale in drafting him in the first place.

I'm curious what our plans were when drafting him. I don't think you use a pick as early as we did for someone that is 26/27 and is seen purely as a backup.

Yeah I just think the draft thinned out at that point and he was the best we could get at the pick. Won't waste too many brain cells on it

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I disagree with most of the commentary surrounding SDK in the ruck. For most of the past two months we've been losing we've been far too conservative and made little changes to arrest the issues.

SDK has been up and down since his head injury so I have zero issues mixing it up and trying something different. Long overdue.

On that note, good to see Humphries come in. Would have liked Mannagh and Hardie as well over the last two months but this is a start.

Hopefully more of this happens and we stop doing the same things that aren't working and trying nothing new.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Yeah I just think the draft thinned out at that point and he was the best we could get at the pick. Won't waste too many brain cells on it

I disagree.

We traded for that draft pick... we wanted it... Wells wanted Mannagh.

In time there will be some good players pop up that went after Mannagh in the draft (Humphries one of them).

 

[Johanpetro]

I don't hate the SDK ruck experiment.

I think the ruck role can be overrated at times, and it allows them to play SDK, Neale and Blicavs (assuming they rate those 3 higher than Conway/Stanley) and have an extra midfielder, half back etc. But it is interesting that Conway was hyped so much earlier in the year and is now playing VFL while we parachute in someone who has never really played the role.

I also think you have to consider who you're playing. I wouldn't want to do it against Gawn, Grundy etc. And while Goldstein is a bit older now, they've selected both Goldy and Draper and we've gone with no recognised ruck which is interesting. It could turn out great, or it could blow up in our face.

Last 4 games for the cats TDK and Grundy arguably best on ground. Before that Nankervis had 51 hitouts , and before that Briggs 23 touches and 44 hitouts

The ruck role is not overrated when they come up against us. Any decent ruckman turns into a match winner it’s very concerning

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I disagree.

We traded for that draft pick... we wanted it... Wells wanted Mannagh.

In time there will be some good players pop up that went after Mannagh in the draft (Humphries one of them).

Ok sure they'll pop up in time, but we didn't have time.

I remember everyone looking at the situation and being very confident we'd take COS anyway

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

The media seems to forget that the Cats played SDK in the ruck last year, too, and he wasn't bad at it. I think his facial injury ended it. This year, they act like it's a total shock to them. I think Toby will be our No. 1 ruck in the future, but it's good to have options. Cos Blicav's is getting close to retirement, and maybe SDK could take his place. Wait & see on that one.

Given how badly we're currently playing, the Bombers will probably beat us in this game. But it's great to see Humphries and Knevitt named. Humphries was considered a good get in last year's draft.

I just want the boys to be competitive and not play half-assed like they did against Carlton. Some of the efforts in that game were third-rate. Fingers crossed, the Catters can get it done this week.