AFL Toast RND 17: Win Against The Crom

[Rilzi]

As someone whose posted a handful of times over very many years, appreciate that I've gone to the effort of signing in to acknowledge my complete shock that somehow Langford has turned himself into Essendon's most reliable forward. Solid tackler, solid goalkicker, solid in assists, this bloke is genuinely bloody good. As for the game? Heart in mouth as with all Bomber games right until the siren - but in retrospect we got out to a good lead then coasted to a victory.

 

[jannissary]

As someone whose posted a handful of times over very many years, appreciate that I've gone to the effort of signing in to acknowledge my complete shock that somehow Langford has turned himself into Essendon's most reliable forward. Solid tackler, solid goalkicker, solid in assists, this bloke is genuinely bloody good. As for the game? Heart in mouth as with all Bomber games right until the siren - but in retrospect we got out to a good lead then coasted to a victory.

absolutely agree, wright and langers will be a great forward combo when they're both in good form. i'm loving it

 

[TheUnicorn]

and he's live! !

He spoke to me

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Had to win and we did.

 

[Mootsy]

Thought we were playing Harlem globe trotters for most of the game. Really dismantled us in the first half and then your defence held up very well when we lifted. A complete performance.

Hobbs looks really good!

 

[jannissary]

Thought we were playing Harlem globe trotters for most of the game. Really dismantled us in the first half and then your defence held up very well when we lifted. A complete performance.

Hobbs looks really good!

every time the ball got into tex's hands i was very worried, and despite dawson getting held well in the first 1/2 he ****ed us in the 2nd

 

[resurrector]

Would have been lovely to smack these pricks by 50 plus but a wins a win. Now to finally snap the Geelong hoodoo next week

 

[ant555]

Let them get a few junk time goals but they stood up when it counted against a side that is in good form. It is what you want to see from them in a pressure game.

 

[Lore]

True. I've flagged this as an issue for Langford since Wright has come back. They've lead to the same area a number of times.

Flip and Weid spoil each other still too, despite playing like ~12 games together this year.

My knock on Weid isn't that he isn't trying or getting to the right spots. It's that he's in a massive form slump and drops a lot of marks he would take when he's confident, and looks like he has zero self belief when in front of the goals. Not unfixable, just needs a run in the 2's to build up the confidence with assurances from the coach that he sees him as a best 22 player in the future when he's back in form.

One of the key aspects of building someone's confidence, at least in the case of Wright and Weideman, is taking away that anxiety of 'if you don't kick 1-2 goals every week I'm gonna drop you'. Otherwise you get selfish, nervous, scared, and then feeble football, and distracted footballers that stop doing team stuff as a result of their survival instinct.

If he's doing everything else except hitting the scoreboard, but as a result of the role he plays 3-5 other goals are kicked by players that wouldn't otherwise have had the opportunity, or would've had a worse angle/distance, or wouldn't have taken the mark against a bigger opponent and had to crumb it, but got a less capable aerialist as an opponent and got a set shot instead, then you're still better off overall having him in the team.

We're also in a very strong learning and development phase, and we really need to get games into Wright+Weid as a combination to figure out whether it's going to work. You're not going to learn anything about the combination if you only play the two of them in combination with a solo ruck for 2 games, especially when those two games are against difficult opponents with weird post-bye form lines messing with everything.

They obviously thought it worked in pre-season and then never got a chance to try it in game conditions. So if you're wanting to see Wright and Weid working together with one ruck (i.e. Weid taking some ruck load), then you either drop both or neither, give up the idea altogether, or postpone the experiment until 2024 (which means delaying any necessary changes until after the upcoming player movement period in the off-season).

Genuine question, do you think one of our not injured talls in the 2's could be given clear directions through the week and accomplish what you mentioned on game day?

Not really no.

It's not naturally in Voss' repertoire to play a team-oriented linking role between the midfield and forward line as a sort of HFF/CHF, and he's more likely to get turned inside out further away from the big sticks.

Jones can do it. I think maybe Hunter, though I haven't seen much of him. Both are currently down with season ending injuries.

The other way to deal with dropping Weideman is to put Langford or Perkins or someone up in that connecting role at half-forward. Or perhaps Wright at HF and Langford or Stringer deep.

Bryan is neither a HF nor a FF. Flip is more HF and Draper is more FF (when not rucking) but both probably miss next week's game (suspended and injured respectively), which means Bryan plays in the ruck.

Cox is sort of interesting, but you need someone that will take a defender with them. If he's working too far up the wing the defender would drop off and he'd pick up a different opponent.

It would be interesting to try a two-ruck set up with Bryan as #1 and Weid/Cox as #2. Bryan playing the tap-ruck role that Flip is better at, and Cox sort of in a Draper mould doing stuff around the ground, but Weid takes the tap when Bryan isn't around (so basically Cox chops out Weideman who chops out Bryan, or something.)


Baldwin is in now a defender so I don't think he's in consideration for a forward spot unless there's literally no one at all left to play in the forward line, i.e., they'd rather play Wright by himself than Wright+Baldwin, just as they did with Weid by himself rather than Weid+Voss/Baldwin.

 

[jmoo wan]

Congratulations today - far too good and showed up all the frailties in our side that we were fearing. You guys were miles too good at the stoppage and centre clearances when it mattered and the 18 point final margin was not a real reflection of the gulf in class today - it felt more like a 10 goal loss and would have been close to that had you kicked straighter. It baffled many of us when we went in without covering Butts (so to speak) when you have a tall forward line and it played out exactly like we thought - too good in the air.

All the best for the rest of the year - your side deserves finals, ours on todays showing certainly does not

what's all this shouting - this is a local board for local people we'll have no trouble here.

 

[Vincent Hanna]

I went to the game today and pub-crawled home!

Bloody fantastic - would still love a game where we bury a side but what the hey...

You plebs slamming Parish - sechs me until death - watch the replay and check the stats - GeezusHLord!

 

[bombreys]

Anyone potting Parish needs to seriously watch the replay. Yes he turns it over sometimes and his footskills are not elite but he worked hard up and back today and was a BIG reason for the win. Got a 'lazy' 39 touches (same as the skipper), 8 of which were clearance (highest bomber), gained 599m (2nd highest after skipper), 9 i50s (highest bomber), 13 contested possession (highest bomber)... I mean FFS.. what else does the bloke have to do to get respect around here??

We would be absolutely CRAZY to give Parish up.. for any amount of draft picks. And he is only 25.. just hitting his prime.

I wonder what game some of you watch.. dude is legit elite.

Genuine question, what do you think he’s elite at,

Is he just an elite accumulator?

I’m not sure he’s VFL level by foot.

 

[Crow till I die]

Don't quite agree. I really rate the crows. Forward line is scary and I always thought they were a chance up until the last 10 or so minutes. I think we played exceptionally well today. Certainly not a gulf in class.

what's all this shouting - this is a local board for local people we'll have no trouble here.

You are the twelfty person to say thay

 

[bombreys]

It’s not just what you do with the ball, it’s what you do without it and where you fit in the system (such as dragging a defender out of their leading lane and not knocking a mark out of their hands).

You can’t just be a decoy for 6 games though, that’s a cop out.

 

[srobbo]

How the **** did we lose to Fremantle?

 

[Lore]

You can’t just be a decoy for 6 games though, that’s a cop out.

Where did I say decoy?

 

[brutus76]

A wonderful Sunday morning in Pittsburgh after that win. Time to enjoy some summer sunshine in my Under Armour gear

 

[Lore]

 

[Lore]

 

[Old man fletch]

Flip and Weid spoil each other still too, despite playing like ~12 games together this year.


One of the key aspects of building someone's confidence, at least in the case of Wright and Weideman, is taking away that anxiety of 'if you don't kick 1-2 goals every week I'm gonna drop you'. Otherwise you get selfish, nervous, scared, and then feeble football, and distracted footballers that stop doing team stuff as a result of their survival instinct.

If he's doing everything else except hitting the scoreboard, but as a result of the role he plays 3-5 other goals are kicked by players that wouldn't otherwise have had the opportunity, or would've had a worse angle/distance, or wouldn't have taken the mark against a bigger opponent and had to crumb it, but got a less capable aerialist as an opponent and got a set shot instead, then you're still better off overall having him in the team.

We're also in a very strong learning and development phase, and we really need to get games into Wright+Weid as a combination to figure out whether it's going to work. You're not going to learn anything about the combination if you only play the two of them in combination with a solo ruck for 2 games, especially when those two games are against difficult opponents with weird post-bye form lines messing with everything.

They obviously thought it worked in pre-season and then never got a chance to try it in game conditions. So if you're wanting to see Wright and Weid working together with one ruck (i.e. Weid taking some ruck load), then you either drop both or neither, give up the idea altogether, or postpone the experiment until 2024 (which means delaying any necessary changes until after the upcoming player movement period in the off-season).


Not really no.

It's not naturally in Voss' repertoire to play a team-oriented linking role between the midfield and forward line as a sort of HFF/CHF, and he's more likely to get turned inside out further away from the big sticks.

Jones can do it. I think maybe Hunter, though I haven't seen much of him. Both are currently down with season ending injuries.

The other way to deal with dropping Weideman is to put Langford or Perkins or someone up in that connecting role at half-forward. Or perhaps Wright at HF and Langford or Stringer deep.

Bryan is neither a HF nor a FF. Flip is more HF and Draper is more FF (when not rucking) but both probably miss next week's game (suspended and injured respectively), which means Bryan plays in the ruck.

Cox is sort of interesting, but you need someone that will take a defender with them. If he's working too far up the wing the defender would drop off and he'd pick up a different opponent.

It would be interesting to try a two-ruck set up with Bryan as #1 and Weid/Cox as #2. Bryan playing the tap-ruck role that Flip is better at, and Cox sort of in a Draper mould doing stuff around the ground, but Weid takes the tap when Bryan isn't around (so basically Cox chops out Weideman who chops out Bryan, or something.)


Baldwin is in now a defender so I don't think he's in consideration for a forward spot unless there's literally no one at all left to play in the forward line, i.e., they'd rather play Wright by himself than Wright+Baldwin, just as they did with Weid by himself rather than Weid+Voss/Baldwin.

In principle this is a good way to grow a team which is what Scott's focus is this year, developing players confidence for future seasons. The concerns with this are, when does it become counterproductive to selection integrity and impact the attitudes of non-selected players, and if Weids confidence is that low, does giving him senior games compound his self doubt?

Would be good to hear more from Scott around what's being done to help turn the form slump around (like bringing in a goal kicking coach to solidify his method). This may or may not be happening, or Scott may not care about the fans concerns on this (fair enough, he has more important things on his plate), but in the vacuum of information, fans will question things.

Agree with your comments that the players likely to fill Weids role are out injured ATM. If we magically had no injuries, I doubt Weid would be getting a game. If that's the case, then it seems worth trialling some other options.

If Weid were to be dropped for a few games with the reassurance that it was for him to smash it in the 2s and get back to the seniors where Scott wants him, what are your thoughts on Langford playing as the second tall? Has demonstrated he can do it well, very strong marker, and great finisher

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

With regard to Weid, at some stage “He’s just lacking confidence” will become “He’s just not up to it”.
After 9 years in the system, he’s standing at Brad’s feet quacking at him.

 

[Yoda_]

With regard to Weid, at some stage “He’s just lacking confidence” will become “He’s just not up to it”.
After 9 years in the system, he’s standing at Brad’s feet quacking at him.

this needs to be taught more in schools



sometimes a player is just not up to the level. I hope Jones comes back in a big way in 2024 so we don't need to rely on Weidemann as partner to Wright

 

[TheGrizz]

Genuine question, what do you think he’s elite at,

Is he just an elite accumulator?

I’m not sure he’s VFL level by foot.

He had less clangers than Caldwell, Hobbs and Merrett did.

Are we meant to overlook all the great stuff they did as well?
Or is that just a Parish thing?

 

[faible]

In principle this is a good way to grow a team which is what Scott's focus is this year, developing players confidence for future seasons. The concerns with this are, when does it become counterproductive to selection integrity and impact the attitudes of non-selected players, and if Weids confidence is that low, does giving him senior games compound his self doubt?

When there's genuine alternatives available.

Jones & Hunter would be the viable players to fill that spot but both are out with injury. Voss could come in but plays like Stringer-lite which means he's a medium and can't relief ruck which takes Wright out of the forward-line. Bryan isn't a forward. Cox maybe but he hasn't been playing in that role.

Selection integrity is only a thing when there's actually competition for spots, we're not exactly flush with tall forward options right now and the 2 x KPF structure is obviously one that Scott wants to use long-term, and Weideman needed the opportunity to get a run of games at AFL level without looking over his shoulder every week. There'll be a point where he's not meeting the KPI's the coaching group is setting for him (and we don't really know what they're asking of him) and might get dropped, but without any real other mature talls fit and ready, it's hard to push him out without changing the structure.

 

[Lore]

When there's genuine alternatives available.

Jones & Hunter would be the viable players to fill that spot but both are out with injury. Voss could come in but plays like Stringer-lite which means he's a medium and can't relief ruck which takes Wright out of the forward-line. Bryan isn't a forward. Cox maybe but he hasn't been playing in that role.

Selection integrity is only a thing when there's actually competition for spots, we're not exactly flush with tall forward options right now and the 2 x KPF structure is obviously one that Scott wants to use long-term, and Weideman needed the opportunity to get a run of games at AFL level without looking over his shoulder every week. There'll be a point where he's not meeting the KPI's the coaching group is setting for him (and we don't really know what they're asking of him) and might get dropped, but without any real other mature talls fit and ready, it's hard to push him out without changing the structure.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.