AFL Toast RND 17: Win Against The Crom

[Lance Uppercut]

The red hair but really does him no favours.

Maybe chrisso gets confused and suspends Francis instead

one of the commentators on Thursday night called Francis Phillips so it's genuinely possible

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Had a few passengers (Stringer, Weidemann, Snelling) today and very little out of Shiel and Phillips today.

We did have a few role players step up again today, Merrett stepped up again, Parish probably under appreciated his impact today. Wright and Martin very good. Langford slowly getting the recognition he deserves. Guelfi close to my votes today. Perkins and Hobbs exceptional with the additional responsibility.
Dont forget Heppell who has turned back the clock. Genuine brilliant, especially that third quarter.

Stringer was hardly a passenger IMO. He kicked that incredible goal and was directly responsible for another with that pass to Wright. He got quite involved in the second half, when we needed him

 

[bombreys]

Where did I say decoy?

You didn't, you said 'dragging a defender'. I just think that's a bit of a copout - you can't have your CHF going goalless for 6 weeks.

 

[citizen-erased]

Stringer was hardly a passenger IMO. He kicked that incredible goal and was directly responsible for another with that pass to Wright. He got quite involved in the second half, when we needed him

started slow. the -3 in my fantasy league had me nervous

he did a good job throwing weight around and applying pressure.

 

[bombreys]

He had less clangers than Caldwell, Hobbs and Merrett did.

Are we meant to overlook all the great stuff they did as well?
Or is that just a Parish thing?

Take a breath. I was replying to a quote that he is 'genuinely elite' - asking what he was 'elite' at. I think it was a fairly reasonable question.

 

[ant555]

You didn't, you said 'dragging a defender'. I just think that's a bit of a copout - you can't have your CHF going goalless for 6 weeks.

If you do not have another one you probably do . Let’s face it circumstances have made it hard to drop him from the side . If Draper was fit then I would say he would be out as we do not need a second ruck . He was not CHF this week. He was FP / ruck . Without changing the structure he is staying in due to injuries to the guys who would replace him .

 

[jdstorm]

When it comes to the KP forwards, playing with 3 Talls next year is probably Wright, Draper and Bryan with Draper as the R/F.

Weed is currently playing that role due to injuries and because Bryan isn’t ready physically yet, but he should be next season.

With how injuries have gone they need Weed this season and they need him to find his confidence so I don’t see them dropping him, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he wasn’t On the team next season

 

[bombreys]

If you do not have another one you probably do . Let’s face it circumstances have made it hard to drop him from the side . If Draper was fit then I would say he would be out as we do not need a second ruck . He was not CHF this week. He was FP / ruck . Without changing the structure he is staying in due to injuries to the guys who would replace him .

Yeah I think that's all pretty fair. Man I wish Hunter didn't go down.

 

[MalooElCamino]

I dont post alot here goes my 2c.

Hobbs has looked captain material almost since day 1.
Probably a better player than zach when he was his age.

Parish is a slick in and under player. Decision with the ball on the boot is a 50/50.
Probably needs perkins feeding off him.
Also does get lost (bigger boddied) top 4 teams.

Archie P. My fav game from him. Made a lot of right decisions. He's a great kick passer. Love when he actually TACKLES

Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

taking a lot of salary for a average decision making reciever. Think ive seen enough for the boot.

Wiederman... The decoy!!!
To a degree its handy to have another opp. tall defender taken from Langford.
Seems like wiedeman plays well when hes the 1 tall forward and the ball falls in his lap. His decision making 0/10

Zerk 15 more kg of muscle please. Will be top 3 defender with is freakish skill.

I believe Stringer, Langford, 2mp, tip, Menzie (& a couple of fillers) is a premiership fwdline.

GO BOMBERS.

 

[Squeaky]

Shiel looks out of confidence.

If he's out of confidence he should be giving the first option handball instead of inventing that shit one he tried in the last qtr.

 

[sameolds33]

Just watched the replay. Although it wasn't as exciting as the first half, I thought the game was won in the 3rd quarter when we had to defend for long stretches and Adelaide was threatening a comeback. I can't remember when we last protected a significant lead so well. Everyone stepped up and absorbed the pressure. It was a sign that the playing group is maturing, able to both defend and attack. A really pleasing development.

 

[IggypopsTshirt]

I dont post alot here goes my 2c.

Hobbs has looked captain material almost since day 1.
Probably a better player than zach when he was his age.

Parish is a slick in and under player. Decision with the ball on the boot is a 50/50.
Probably needs perkins feeding off him.
Also does get lost (bigger boddied) top 4 teams.

Archie P. My fav game from him. Made a lot of right decisions. He's a great kick passer. Love when he actually TACKLES

Dylan Shiel taking a lot of salary for a average decision making reciever. Think ive seen enough for the boot.

Wiederman... The decoy!!!
To a degree its handy to have another opp. tall defender taken from Langford.
Seems like wiedeman plays well when hes the 1 tall forward and the ball falls in his lap. His decision making 0/10

Zerk 15 more kg of muscle please. Will be top 3 defender with is freakish skill.

I believe Stringer, Langford, 2mp, tip, Menzie (& a couple of fillers) is a premiership fwdline.

GO BOMBERS.

You had me right up until premiership forward line.
Shiel is contracted until end 2024 so we still need him to be producing but he appears to be being pushed out. Being 31 we should really be looking at phasing him out anyway (possible trade?). Fortunately we have Tsatas and Setters to slot straight in to an already serviceable mid rotation.
The cap space freed up by Shiel will be handy too.

 

[MalooElCamino]

You had me right up until premiership forward line.
Shiel is contracted until end 2024 so we still need him to be producing but he appears to be being pushed out. Being 31 we should really be looking at phasing him out anyway (possible trade?). Fortunately we have Tsatas and Setters to slot straight in to an already serviceable mid rotation.
The cap space freed up by Shiel will be handy too.

Its no hawkins / cameron
Or rievolt / lynch double powerforward team. But it is accurate and fast scoring at full flight

 

[fairbump_playon]

Our high transition game is super powerful and a joy to watch.

I think because it involves risk and effort, we tend to go more conservative when we are defending a lead.. either that or we're gassed.

That high octane game needs everyone going in order for it to come off, and if a half dozen players go into their shell, we struggle to score.

Saw it yesterday, and even against Collingwood I reckon the issues started when we went to a "keep the lead" headspace.

Then once they got on top we were overwhelmed.

I don't think that the game plan is necessarily unsustainable or won't stand up in finals - but the coaching group would need to find a way to stop us putting the cue in the rack. May feel risky but we have to keep sticking to or guns.

 

[MiguelM]

Coaches votes, should upset a few around here!

Essendon v Adelaide​

9 Darcy Parish

3

Darcy Parish

Age

27

Ht

180cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

3star

CL

3.1

4star

D

22.2

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

14.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

(ESS)
9 Zach Merrett (ESS)
5 Peter Wright (ESS)
3 Nic Martin (ESS)
2 Andrew McGrath

1

Andrew Mcgrath

Age

26

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.7

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

11.1

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

252.9

4star

D

22.0

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

1.2

2star

T

6.4

5star

MG

219.0

4star

(ESS)
1 Ben Hobbs (ESS)
1 Rory Laird

29

Rory Laird

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

12.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.3

4star

CL

1.0

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

(ADEL)

 

[Lore]

You didn't, you said 'dragging a defender'. I just think that's a bit of a copout - you can't have your CHF going goalless for 6 weeks.

So you missed the context, skim read my post, saw three words together that made you see red, and then tee'd off.

What I actually said, with some context, is:


Old man fletch was comparing Flip and Bryan with Weideman and wondering whether Weideman could be dropped for Bryan, with Bryan playing forward in Weideman's role because he could also get 2 hitouts and 3 marks.

Now, my response isn't about excusing Weideman's lack of scoreboard impact. Obviously Weideman would be a more valuable player if he did more things with the ball as well as without it. Weideman has kicked multiple goals 5 times this year, and been held completely scoreless 5 times this year. His other 4 games he had shots on goal that resulted in only behinds, for a total score of 13.15 from 14 games.

But there are also several other things going on here.

Firstly, "it's not what you do with the ball, it's what you do without it" - I am pointing out that stat sheets don't show what players are doing without the ball, and aren't giving you a complete picture of what you need to replace if you want to drop Weideman, so we do need to consider more than the stat sheet in order to seriously consider the implications of selecting Bryan as a forward in place of Weideman.

Secondly, as implied by the context of responding to OMF's post, I am pointing out that Bryan, who is not a forward and "does not have great forward craft and can fade out of a game" (as OMF said), needs to be able to do things Weideman does without the ball, that are not found on the stat sheet, if he's going to take Weideman's spot – not just the '2 hitouts and 3 marks' (or whatever). If Weideman only does half a job by doing the team stuff and not hitting the scoreboard, then why would Bryan who is not a forward be able to do it better?

Thirdly, I emphasise the second point by elaborating; "and where you fit in the system (such as dragging a defender out of their leading lane and not knocking a mark out of their hands)". This is in reference to us playing Phillips ahead of Bryan because Flip has better forward craft, and yet Flip still doesn't seem to know 'where he fits in the system' most of the time, and can often be seen 'dragging a defender into the leading lane', [competing for the same ball as his teammates] and 'knocking a mark out of their hands'. There is photographic evidence from last week against Port Adelaide, with Flip competing with Weideman with neither of them getting the mark in Weid's player thread.

Now, if what Weideman does without the ball as part of the forward system is important (and clearly it is given we previously persisted with Jones for much the same reason with much the same scoreboard impact, despite the stat lines in both instances), and if Bryan has no experience doing anything in the forward line either with or without a ball (but particularly without one), and if Flip can't do it as well as Weideman, while Bryan can't do it as well as Flip, then the obvious conclusion is that we cannot play Bryan as a forward in lieu of Weideman.

Bryan as a forward in lieu of Weideman is 2 steps back and 1 step forward. There's no net gain there.




And while we're on the topic of Weideman, he only had 68% game time yesterday. Not quite sure why he's being managed, but that probably accounts a little bit for yesterday's stat line. Last week he had 72%, whereas a normal game for him is 90%+

 

[Call Me Cake]

Hate to single out Hepp but he really should have left it for Redders here and shepherded (ended up being dropped and handballed for Walker goal)



There were a few moments where the players got in each other's ways a bit, need to only do so if you're 100% gonna bank the possession. Communication should be the area of focus despite the win.

 

[Lore]

Hate to single out Hepp but he really should have left it for Redders here and shepherded (ended up being dropped and handballed for Walker goal)

View attachment 1734517

There were a few moments where the players got in each other's ways a bit, need to only do so if you're 100% gonna bank the possession. Communication should be the area of focus despite the win.

At both ends

 

[Godzke]

Impressive win but a strange game. Felt like 4 different games in one

1st quarter - great clearance work, midfield clicked early, forward line worked hard and were efficient, backline panicked and were poor
2nd quarter - forward half pressure was immense (Adel had one i50 from 30+ defensive chains? awesome territory defence), scored from turnovers
3rd quarter - forward half pressure largely non-existent, as it was all about absorbing pressure in the defensive half and we did that well
4th quarter - game had sort of lost its mojo, so the ball was pinging back n forth without either side caring too much

I like Perkins but I feel he's spending a fraction too much time at the centre bounces. Would like to see more Caldwell and less Perkins. Hobbs only had 65% TOG so not sure if he was being managed or not. Perkins just felt a fraction slow under pressure.

Shiel as a sub is a fail, again. Slow, clumsy, no real impact. Sub needs to be a utility and Shiel needs two weeks in the VFL before putting his hand up for selection.

 

[Yoda_]

Watched some of the media shows this evening and they are all raving suggesting that Essendon has arrived. We beat a team who has been down right pathetic on the road and not only beat Adelaide, let them walk within 3 goals at the final siren so upon watching the replay the win was not nearly as impressive as we have been made out to be.

The first quarter and half was as impressive football as we have played but lets not get too carried away. It was Adelaide.

If we are to be taken seriously then one of Geelong (away), Dogs (Marvel, Friday night football), Giants (away), Pies (top of the ladder) needs to be a win and cement ourselves as a finals team. No more respectable losses. Win one if not more of these and we waltz in as a finalist.

 

[citizen-erased]

Watched some of the media shows this evening and they are all raving suggesting that Essendon has arrived. We beat a team who has been down right pathetic on the road and not only beat Adelaide, let them walk within 3 goals at the final siren so upon watching the replay the win was not nearly as impressive as we have been made out to be.

The first quarter and half was as impressive football as we have played but lets not get too carried away. It was Adelaide.

If we are to be taken seriously then one of Geelong (away), Dogs (Marvel, Friday night football), Giants (away), Pies (top of the ladder) needs to be a win and cement ourselves as a finals team. No more respectable losses. Win one if not more of these and we waltz in as a finalist.

1/3 in the testing 5 for me.

wanna see a win v either dogs or cats now to really consolidate the good work to date

In the stretch that is Syd, GWS, North and WCE that should be 4 wins.

5 more for the season is a solid A+ season and i reckon it sees us finish 5th.

 

[MiguelM]

Watched some of the media shows this evening and they are all raving suggesting that Essendon has arrived. We beat a team who has been down right pathetic on the road and not only beat Adelaide, let them walk within 3 goals at the final siren so upon watching the replay the win was not nearly as impressive as we have been made out to be.

The first quarter and half was as impressive football as we have played but lets not get too carried away. It was Adelaide.

If we are to be taken seriously then one of Geelong (away), Dogs (Marvel, Friday night football), Giants (away), Pies (top of the ladder) needs to be a win and cement ourselves as a finals team. No more respectable losses. Win one if not more of these and we waltz in as a finalist.

Media jump on us quickly, the perils of being a big Vic club!

I hear you but you can only beat what is in front of you. The Crows are one of the best scoring sides in the comp and pushed Collingwood away from home. A very dangerous side at Marvel.

The final margin flattered the Crows a bit, we just need that killer instinct to really bury sides but at least we are now competitive most weeks.

Agree, we need some bigger scalps to be a real contender but compared to last year we have made great strides.

There is no harder test than Cats at home at the business end of the season, will be fascinating. They are one side that really bully us and we always seem rushed against them. They can destroy us in a 15 minute spell at any point.

I expect a loss but anything within 4 goals would be good. Tackling pressure needs to be spot on early.

 

[Stopher]

This game was a good example of how the media can push a certain narrative:

Essendon win- 'Bombers can only beat teams outside the top 8!'

Essendon lose- 'Bombers can't beat teams in the top 8!'

 

[ghostdog]

Unfortunately we're seeing one of the criticisms of North fans of Scott when he was coaching them. Had his favourites that got games regardless of how out of form they were.

Hopefully Flip gets a fine (chook lotto so who knows) and Bryan is in as a forward. The criticism of him is he doesn't have great forward craft and can fade out of a game, but Weid had 2 hitouts and 3 marks for the game, so I'm not sure we lose a lot with him out. Suspect the odds of this happening are pretty damn low

Looks like you suspected right. Weid will stay in and Bryan will play. Someone commented on how much they miss Smack at the moment. X2

 

[eth-dog]

Looks like you suspected right. Weid will stay in and Bryan will play. Someone commented on how much they miss Smack at the moment. X2

The one guy who's worse than Weideman?