AFL Autopsy Rnd 4: Loss against the Blues

[Vander18]

Snelling meets the play like Richmond KPI so he stays.

It does feel that way

 

[citizen-erased]

I can't remember the last time I cared about winnint a game like that. Probably 2017.

Feels like the only thing it does is add another layer of wallpaper over the cracks.

I have no faith and see very little reason for optimism.

Same bucket. I'll start caring when the players do.
Seems a fair trade.

 

[hirdylloydy1]

Really think everyones going overboard, was always going to be a struggle this week with the lack of training, carlton has continuity, was always going to be tough, think this game says more about where carlton are at given we nearly won

 

[rubbers0ul]

Any danger of playing Parish as a full time mid????




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Swerving Irv]

Having cooled down somewhat since last night's catastrophe, here's a few thoughts.

1. We cannot persist with Hurley any longer. He caused at least three Carlton goals through poor positioning and thoroughly disgraceful panicked kicking. He barely takes intercept marks. We have BZT waiting in the wings who can easily play alongside Ambrose, Francis, Ridley and Gleeson.

2. We need to play our young key forwards. Yes I'm aware most of them have been injured and it's almost impossible to demonstrate good form with no VFL matches, but it has to happen. Playing McKernan, Stringer and Townsend as your key forwards is total stupidity, especially when one of them starts at half the centre bounces. We need to develop Jones, Gown and even Stewart asap.

3. The ruck. Bellchambers is a tombstone. Get Phillips in while Draper's unavailable for God's sake. While we have no fit forwards, put Bellchambers to full forward so we can at least attempt to bring the ball to ground. If I see Tippa in a two-on-one in the goalsquare again being monstered by two key defenders, I'll ...

4. The midfield. Merrett, Shiel and McGrath aren't centre square footballers without a burly Hocking type putting blocks on and creating space for them to move. We look glacially slow when they can't get into space. Play Clarke or Hibberd and draft 2-3 bullocking on-ballers that are bigger than 183cm.

And play Parish on-ball for the whole ****ing game you deadset morons.

 

[Phone]

Really think everyones going overboard, was always going to be a struggle this week with the lack of training, carlton has continuity, was always going to be tough, think this game says more about where carlton are at given we nearly won

Ok, the more concerning thing is that we've played 3 games this season, all against teams who are outside the eight and 2-2 at best, and they've all been decided under a goal. Now, it's well established that close games are essentially coin flips, so we could very easily be sitting 0-3 and more importantly, we haven't looked like winning a game comfortably so far this season, and again all our opponents are currently bottom 8 teams so far.

 

[Kyptastic]

Say what you want about him, but we haven’t really replaced Myers as the big body in the centre who could put blocks on for the other players and it shows

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

I particularly enjoyed the bit where they pretend the 4'0'' Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti is a tall forward and bomb it long to him

 

[srobbo]

We simply have to play a ruck that can offer something around the ground, mainly up forward - TBell used to be able to do that but he hasn't for some time now & never will again. How do the selectors not see this? Why do we go into game after game with one hand tied behind our back?

Phillips aint the second coming but when fit, & until Draper is ready, he must play ahead of Bellchambers, must.

exactly right. I’ve had a gutful of Bellchambers & his insipid ways & more so the fools that keep playing him.

 

[Old man fletch]

I particularly enjoyed the bit where they pretend the 4'0'' Anthony McDonald Tipungwuti is a tall forward and bomb it long to him

Gave me flashbacks of when we kept trying that with Alwyn Davey. Clearly worked then, so why not persist with that strategy instead of kicking to open space so he can run onto it

 

[hirdylloydy1]

Ok, the more concerning thing is that we've played 3 games this season, all against teams who are outside the eight and 2-2 at best, and they've all been decided under a goal. Now, it's well established that close games are essentially coin flips, so we could very easily be sitting 0-3 and more importantly, we haven't looked like winning a game comfortably so far this season, and again all our opponents are currently bottom 8 teams so far.

The teams we have beaten have proven to be no easybeats. Definately work to be done, but judging us on last night probably isnt fair.

My main concern is our coaches refusal to play parish in the middle, makes you wonder if they know what they are doing.....

 

[mike14]

The teams we have beaten have proven to be no easybeats. Definately work to be done, but judging us on last night probably isnt fair.

My main concern is our coaches refusal to play parish in the middle, makes you wonder if they know what they are doing.....

I'd say judging any team on 1 performance isn't the right thing to do, but my concern is a lot of what we saw last night is the continuation of trends and themes that we've seen for the past few seasons, which themselves for the most part are very similar to what we've seen for most of the last 2 decades.
We seem to simply be repeating our output of producing teams who have a pretty high level of natural talent which can win games; but flaws in discipline, skill and game plan mean we won't challenege for the flag, and at the end of the day will struggle to even win one final...

 

[ghostdog]

The main thing I noticed last night was that often, when we wanted to move the ball to a leading player, that player had a Carlton player on their hammer. When Carlton were on the attack they had spread quickly and had loose players everywhere. Not sure how that reflects whatever our new system is, but it clearly wasn't working last night.

I also tend to agree with the perception that the disruption really affected our continuity where Carlton were clearly up and about.

 

[ant555]

In the pre-season Phillips was our most reliable marker around the ground. Is he injured? Wondering why he didn't play.

Other than they rate T Bell the better tap ruck I have no idea.

 

[cobra land]

The main thing I noticed last night was that often, when we wanted to move the ball to a leading player, that player had a Carlton player on their hammer. When Carlton were on the attack they had spread quickly and had loose players everywhere. Not sure how that reflects whatever our new system is, but it clearly wasn't working last night.

I also tend to agree with the perception that the disruption really affected our continuity where Carlton were clearly up and about.

I agree and said last night that our mid's run harder forward but seem to labour when having to run the other way.....down hill skiers.
Also you mention that we had no space and that was because we had slow ball movement most of the night and kept kicking it up the line to ?????.
Also they applied pressure to our ball carriers where as we allowed them so much space to pick out numerous players on their own, Unaccountable !!!
We seemed to get our goals when the ball was moved quicker which makes sense when you consider how small our forward line was.

 

[ant555]

Who would you have holding the mark? We've got few on the list capable.

I have no one as we have no one which is why this season and even the next will be what it is. Will not matter who coaches us. Until we find a few players who can take a grab and give us the ability to hold possession even 25% more of the time coming out of defense and the forward line. Right now we have improved the defensive pressure by probably 40% and the forward pressure by about 30% but sides know if they can lock us down a bit they will get repeat entries because of our lack of ability to take a mark on a regular basis.
A few seasons ago people laughed when I was in favor of looking at Casbolt. Right now he would be bloody handy at CHF.

People have been saying we need a big bodied midfielder which we do but the biggest issue is not having a decent marking target to get out of defense with or in the forward half so we can keep the ball away from the opposition for longer.

 

[ant555]

We simply have to play a ruck that can offer something around the ground, mainly up forward - TBell used to be able to do that but he hasn't for some time now & never will again. How do the selectors not see this? Why do we go into game after game with one hand tied behind our back?

Phillips aint the second coming but when fit, & until Draper is ready, he must play ahead of Bellchambers, must.

Agree. Tommy is slower than a 1960 tractor and has limited impact other than when on song he can win the hit outs. We desperately need Draper to live up to his potential when he is ready to play.

 

[eth-dog]

I have no one as we have no one which is why this season and even the next will be what it is. Will not matter who coaches us. Until we find a few players who can take a grab and give us the ability to hold possession even 25% more of the time coming out of defense and the forward line. Right now we have improved the defensive pressure by probably 40% and the forward pressure by about 30% but sides know if they can lock us down a bit they will get repeat entries because of our lack of ability to take a mark on a regular basis.
A few seasons ago people laughed when I was in favor of looking at Casbolt. Right now he would be bloody handy at CHF.

People have been saying we need a big bodied midfielder which we do but the biggest issue is not having a decent marking target to get out of defense with or in the forward half so we can keep the ball away from the opposition for longer.

Do you think that's part of the reason we traded for Cutler?

 

[ant555]

I can't remember the last time I cared about winnint a game like that. Probably 2017.

Feels like the only thing it does is add another layer of wallpaper over the cracks.

I have no faith and see very little reason for optimism.

Well take up lawn bowls.

 

[ant555]

Do you think that's part of the reason we traded for Cutler?

Yes it is. If people watch the Sydney game a few times it is noticeable that his spread and ability to hold a wing and take 3 or 4 marks helped us move the ball past the wing.

 

[eth-dog]

Yes it is. If people watch the Sydney game a few times it is noticeable that his spread and ability to hold a wing and take 3 or 4 marks helped us move the ball past the wing.

Check the Cutler thread, I said that exact thing after the Sydney game haha.

 

[BrunoV]

Well take up lawn bowls.

Naah, too hard to get game behind players who are past it.

 

[Lore]

Having cooled down somewhat since last night's catastrophe, here's a few thoughts.

1. We cannot persist with Hurley any longer. He caused at least three Carlton goals through poor positioning and thoroughly disgraceful panicked kicking. He barely takes intercept marks. We have BZT waiting in the wings who can easily play alongside Ambrose, Francis, Ridley and Gleeson.

2. We need to play our young key forwards. Yes I'm aware most of them have been injured and it's almost impossible to demonstrate good form with no VFL matches, but it has to happen. Playing McKernan, Stringer and Townsend as your key forwards is total stupidity, especially when one of them starts at half the centre bounces. We need to develop Jones, Gown and even Stewart asap.

3. The ruck. Bellchambers is a tombstone. Get Phillips in while Draper's unavailable for God's sake. While we have no fit forwards, put Bellchambers to full forward so we can at least attempt to bring the ball to ground. If I see Tippa in a two-on-one in the goalsquare again being monstered by two key defenders, I'll arrange an accident for the coaching staff.

4. The midfield. Merrett, Shiel and McGrath aren't centre square footballers without a burly Hocking type putting blocks on and creating space for them to move. We look glacially slow when they can't get into space. Play Clarke or Hibberd and draft 2-3 bullocking on-ballers that are bigger than 183cm.

And play Parish on-ball for the whole ******* game you deadset morons.

1. Hurley, while not at his best, was still one of the better rebounding defenders we have. The problem we had last night is 49 entries in D50. He and Saad repelled 7 a piece, equal highest for the team. The other defenders averaged 2-3 each. When you have repeat entries and play the entire game in the back half, sooner or later they will kick a goal. It's a testament to the defence that they actually kicked so few, given the state of things (credit also to Carlton's inaccuracy).

2. Great idea, except Jones is injured, Gown is injured, Stewart is in self-isolation...

3. Agree with trying out Phillips, but not convinced he's going to make much difference overall. Win around the ground, but lose the clearance. Will depend on the opponent, if it's someone who regularly towels up Bellchambers at the bounce then we might as well not bother with him.

4. Yep. This is a systemic/list issue combined with availability of big mids at our picks (and on the trade table). Parish is unlikely to fare any better without also having a burly Hocking type making space. The thing to do atm would be to drop a Ham type and replace with Clarke or Hibberd. Not sure why Ham came in for Cutler anyway, unless the injury was a bit of a surprise and Ham was simply the best option of the emergencies we had listed...

 

[Macca18]

Not completely unexpected after having our list quarantined at home for 4 days during the week (and having the unexpected 'BYE' round last week) plus Carlton were pretty good against Geelong the previous week... but still disappointing all the same when we put ourselves into a winning position during the final quarter.

Despite the close scoreboard, it really was an awful spectacle. It seems to be the same old issue we've had for several years in playing a majority of our games in the pristine conditions of Marvel Stadium that we don't adjust well to a dewy MCG surface. Our ball handling skills were atrocious last night (Carlton only slightly better). It was dry in Melbourne all day yesterday but you would be forgiven for thinking our players were out there playing in a torrential downpour at times. Our first two games of the season were at benign Marvel & a dry daytime game at the SCG. This is something we probably need to work on this week before the Collingwood game... the early forecast is looking pretty wet.

Don't think we really deserved to win it at any stage but still managed to put ourselves in a position to do so. The feeling is somewhat softened by, in my opinion, a totally compromised season where it feels like I am watching an Ansett Cup/NAB Cup game every week.

2 really difficult games coming up against two bogey teams - Collingwood & Western Bulldogs. Will be lucky to win one of those. Followed by another tricky game against Hawthorn.

 

[Swerving Irv]

1. Hurley, while not at his best, was still one of the better rebounding defenders we have. The problem we had last night is 49 entries in D50. He and Saad repelled 7 a piece, equal highest for the team. The other defenders averaged 2-3 each. When you have repeat entries and play the entire game in the back half, sooner or later they will kick a goal. It's a testament to the defence that they actually kicked so few, given the state of things (credit also to Carlton's inaccuracy).

2. Great idea, except Jones is injured, Gown is injured, Stewart is in self-isolation...

3. Agree with trying out Phillips, but not convinced he's going to make much difference overall. Win around the ground, but lose the clearance. Will depend on the opponent, if it's someone who regularly towels up Bellchambers at the bounce then we might as well not bother with him.

4. Yep. This is a systemic/list issue combined with availability of big mids at our picks (and on the trade table). Parish is unlikely to fare any better without also having a burly Hocking type making space. The thing to do atm would be to drop a Ham type and replace with Clarke or Hibberd. Not sure why Ham came in for Cutler anyway, unless the injury was a bit of a surprise and Ham was simply the best option of the emergencies we had listed...

. And I'd be willing to bet that almost every single 'rebound' he got came screaming back in. I'd love for you to explain why a bloke who's supposed to be one of the best key defenders in the league is tasked with rebounding the football when we already have a plethora of skilled half back flankers who can already do the job? I'm not just talking about last night, but every week. Saad, Ridley, Redman and McKenna are all far, far, far better kicks of the football than Hurley. Why is he given that responsibility? Poor coaching?

2. And if they weren't, do you honestly think that would happen? They're paid far more than you and I to think outside the square. Plonk Bellchambers at full forward, McKernan at centre half forward. Stringer inside 50 too and have the smalls swarming like they're supposed to be. Footy's a simple game sometimes, and having a discernible forward structure could make all the difference. Better than kicking on Tippa's head ad nauseum wouldn't you say?

3. Bellchambers gets towelled up around the ground every week. At least Phillips follow up tackles and has the capacity to move around the ground faster than a pregnant cow.

4. Every year there are decent sized, tough on-ballers available that we don't go near. Hibberd last year was the exception to the rule. The reason Brisbane have jumped a mile ahead of us is because of their canny knack for picking up good quality hard nuts that protect their better ball users. We'd have been much better off with a Lachie Neale than Dylan Shiel for example. Mitch Robinson types etc. Could probably get someone like Sam Powell Pepper for next to nothing at some stage. Just some tough on-ballers and another key forward isn't much to ask for.