Autopsy Roast and toast vs Hawthorn round 3 & changes for St Kilda

[Rayzorwire]

We probably learned all that Caracella had to give outside of whatever new stuff he comes up with

The "new stuff" is kinda important when you need to completely change your focus from an entirely defensive midfield to one which requires a much greater balance of attack and defense.

We shouldn't make out like he's a god, anyway. Also my mate plays (or has played a few times) basketball against him and said he is an absolute sh*t bloke haha...

I have a very clear memory of the stark difference between how our midfield, ball movement and overall game plan worked before Caracella came in and what happened after he did. Do your mate's opinions about him as a basketball opponent change that?

Rhetorical question.

Also, last year wasn't Kingsley in charge of the midfield and Caracella doing something else?

Not being directly in charge of a department doesn't mean you have zero input, especially when things aren't working.

The amount of times opposition midfielders have had way too much space in the centre and at clearances, the amount of times they can turn a hitout won by either ruck into a clean clearance, contrasted with what we've managed - the diametric opposite - makes it pretty obvious that our systems are not working ATM.

I'm sure that's something Caracella may have had some useful thoughts about.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

We’ve played 1 maybe 2 solid quarters of footy out of 12 (we’ve been shithouse since half time round 1)



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[mauricerioli]

I disagree that Caracella leaving has affected it, we're just not up and going yet. We probably learned all that Caracella had to give outside of whatever new stuff he comes up with, on game day it's up to the players and it's not like they forget his teachings because he's gone, I'm sure they're still using all the same tactics. We shouldn't make out like he's a god, anyway. Also my mate plays (or has played a few times) basketball against him and said he is an absolute sh*t bloke haha...

Also, last year wasn't Kingsley in charge of the midfield and Caracella doing something else?

Caracella was offensive coach, this year McQualter is midfield/offensive coach.

Kingsley was midfield/stoppage coach, the same as this year.

 

[Grrr]

Defence has been under siege because we've often been beaten in the centre early and not been able to take our own opportunities to put scoreboard pressure on.

We all knew Caracella going was going to leave a hole in our midfield set-ups, it will take a while to adjust and the timing couldn't have been worse with Soldo just starting out. We've been better at clearances with a ruck that can't win hitouts so far this year (I don't have statistical evidence of that, just a general impression) or when Soldo sets out to neutralise the contest, that's what we're used to.

Soldo appears at face value to be uncertain where we want him to put the ball when he does win a clear hitout (and I don't think for a minute that's entirely down to a lack of football intelligence on his part), when he doesn't win the hitout we have far more often than not been way out of position to defend. When we have been in good defensive position we've often given away high contact or holding frees.

We're not a super strong midfield - by premiership standards - even at our recent best. When our midfield systems are working as poorly as they have so far this year, we spend the game on the back foot.

I was encouraged by the last quarter against the Hawks in this regard. Soldo gave us first use of the ball several times and we looked a completely different, potent side who could score quickly and hold the ball in our end indefinitely - the real Richmond.

I don't like seeing Edwards going into the centre early on, he's just not that combative type that you need. We need some clearance player who can bullock a bit on these cold winter games. As you say, the ruck taps are going nowhere so we need a bit of weight in the pack. Give Ross a greater roll, sat on the bench a lot, or bring in MacIntosh maybe on the wing or even blood RCD. He's a big lad now and a bit of a bulldozer. Was impressive in that little clip in the Post Match Interview on the website.

 

[RobsJourney]

The "new stuff" is kinda important when you need to completely change your focus from an entirely defensive midfield to one which requires a much greater balance of attack and defense.




I have a very clear memory of the stark difference between how our midfield, ball movement and overall game plan worked before Caracella came in and what happened after he did. Do your mate's opinions about him as a basketball opponent change that?

Rhetorical question.




Not being directly in charge of a department doesn't mean you have zero input, especially when things aren't working.

The amount of times opposition midfielders have had way too much space in the centre and at clearances, the amount of times they can turn a hitout won by either ruck into a clean clearance, contrasted with what we've managed - the diametric opposite - makes it pretty obvious that our systems are not working ATM.

I'm sure that's something Caracella may have had some useful thoughts about.

All absolutely valid points, all I'm saying is that in the 3 rounds this season, Caracella not being at Richmond has had nothing to do with how we've played.

We learnt plenty from him whilst he was there, he helped us change how we played, yes. Helped is a very key word there though, as Dimma himself went through a reinvention and I'm sure had plenty to do with it too. Caracella couldn't help us last year when we were missing only Rance and lost to Collingwood by 40-odd points, couldn't help us when we fell over the line at the end of 2018 and got trounced in the prelim.

Sorry, I'm going on more than I meant to...

Again, I'm simply saying that we learnt a lot from Caracella and the players now know that stuff and will continue to do it. Him being gone means whatever new stuff he might come up with we miss out on, but that's why I say don't make out he's a god. What we got from him might be enough and no less than he can now give Essendon, but we can't assume his new stuff will be better than what our current coaches can give. We will take what we got from him and hopefully get some good stuff from his replacements. He won't just make Essendon go past us. Age and them coming into a window (eventually/maybe?) will do that, if anything. Although, his knowing our tactics (along with Townsend) will make them harder to beat.

But yeah, right now our balance is off in the 22 and we're playing shite. It happens. We'll improve.

 

[Sol23]

Can’t get out of my head some of riolis pathetic efforts. He laconically got the ball and then hand balled it like he was in a training drill. Couldn’t not believe what I was seeing. Some of our players seem like they have checked out mentally.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I don't like seeing Edwards going into the centre early on, he's just not that combative type that you need. We need some clearance player who can bullock a bit on these cold winter games. As you say, the ruck taps are going nowhere so we need a bit of weight in the pack. Give Ross a greater roll, sat on the bench a lot, or bring in MacIntosh maybe on the wing or even blood RCD. He's a big lad now and a bit of a bulldozer. Was impressive in that little clip in the Post Match Interview on the website.

Ross was one of the few laying tackles in the centre early on, liked that aspect of his game. He, Cotch and Soldo laid three tackles each which is a bit down on what you'd ideally be hoping for from Cotch and Soldo's game time (Ross had that excuse) when we were often 2nd to the ball at clearances, but it's way better than Lambert (1), Presti (0), Graham (0) and Edwards (0).

Simply can't afford to lack bite at the coalface to that extent and I'm sure it will be a point of focus through the week (not that we can bloody practice it!).

Positioning setup for the first 3/4's looked the problem to my eye.

...we can't assume his new stuff will be better than what our current coaches can give.

I'm keeping an open mind on that.

As I mentioned earlier, the final quarter last week was a massive improvement so that does perhaps demonstrate that we can adjust and improve through games and hopefully way more when we analyse the game through the week.

To my understanding of the situation (I don't pay a great deal of attention to off-field stuff these days TBH), we chose to keep the coaching staff we have rather than lose one in order to better Essendon's offer to Caracella, so I'm happy to back that judgement and hope it pans out well for us in the long term.

 

[sante]

We lost our first game in a year and everyone is acting like we are finished.

 

[Drofder]

Can’t wait for that football genius Slobbo to tell us why we’ve been “worked out” and how we need to “re-invent.”

 

[Grrr]

We lost our first game in a year and everyone is acting like we are finished.

Not at all it is just the way we have played except one Q against Carlton we have been average and there are heaps of excuses for it. But those who are performing the least should make way for those that might improve the side in the short term at least. In's and out's. Mine would be Dow for Rioli, MacIntosh for Graham and RCD for Pickett. Then those 3 could go and get their hands on the ball in the 2'nds and come back better for it.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Not at all it is just the way we have played except one Q against Carlton we have been average and there are heaps of excuses for it. But those who are performing the least should make way for those that might improve the side in the short term at least. In's and out's. Mine would be Dow for Rioli, MacIntosh for Graham and RCD for Pickett. Then those 3 could go and get their hands on the ball in the 2'nds and come back better for it.

Are we having regular scheduled scratch matches for the 2nd's or was Thursday's a one-off/occasional thing when the other Melbourne club agrees? I haven't heard much about that level, it's still as important as ever that these guys get the best chance to continue their development.

I wouldn't mind those changes at all if those coming in have been showing enough.

 

[Drofder]

We’re 3 games into a season and lost 1 game and yet if you believed the media, it’s like we’re in total crisis.

The hysteria and hyperbole and attention seeking in AFL media nowadays makes it 90% irrelevant.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Dimma may have to bring fwd BIG BOY month alot sooner than expected.

 

[SA Tiger RVZ]

We’re 3 games into a season and lost 1 game and yet if you believed the media, it’s like we’re in total crisis.

The hysteria and hyperbole and attention seeking in AFL media nowadays makes it 90% irrelevant.

100% irrelevant

 

[TigerMoz1973]

We won't get to 17 games before the season is cancelled.
With that in mind.
OUT:Entire premiership side of 19.
IN:Rest of the list.
Might as well get a decent kid from the draft with pick 2.

Yep I reckon that's less than 50/50 chance to finish this season now and it's so compromised already that it's a bit of a joke. That said if the tiger's get up and play well in the next couple of weeks my motivation might get a much needed facelift.
Surely the talk now needs to be that Victorian clubs should be quarantined elsewhere in a hub where the coronavirus doesn't exist

 

[This Is Anfield]

Out: Rioli due to public demand
In: Butler

 

[Bojangles17]

Is baker back in , have to be if available

 

[Bojangles17]

I'm actually thinking we should bring Aarts in. Not exactly sure which of Rioli, Higgins, Castagna, Bolton make way for him.
I'm also thinking maybe CCJ comes in as key forward/ second ruck and Riewoldt plays more as a roaming half forward.
But don't know about making both of these changes at the same time.
I want K-Mac, Naish or Dow in as a winger. Probably for Pickett.
Dusty probably in for Graham or Ross.

Yep give aarts a go , Rioli is obvious one on the block , was given a reprieve and squandered it , use our depth ffs
I like kmac returning , has only played one game fwiw

 

[Bojangles17]

That sounds made up.

There`s vision of him hurting his ribs, plus I doubt the board are deciding who gets paid what, that would be up to the administration.

What a load of crap , there’s a players union that oversees the cuts that have been applied in a uniform approach from top to toe. Interesting going forward but those contracted will be ok unless this season is cactus and plan b is enforced which will realise even more drastic cuts for survival of the comp

 

[theyellowsash]

Yep give aarts a go , Rioli is obvious one on the block , was given a reprieve and squandered it , use our depth ffs
I like kmac returning , has only played one game fwiw

trouble is, what match time is our depth getting to come in with form?

all the guys like ross, pickett, stack, balta etc who came in flying last year had good games in the vfl in the lead up. not surprising that these guys are struggling to find form early without some kind of lead in. unfortunately theres literally no reason to think that aarts is in a place to perform any better than any of our small forwards.

 

[Bobsleder]

Being dropped might just ignite a rocket in some, as it looks like a few are in need of that. More so some of the forwards. No harm in giving a few others a crack at it such as Arts, Dow and Balta as we need some zip in the team and they will come in desperate to do the right thing.
But i get the feeling, there is a lot of credit in the bank for some.

 

[IceT]

We lost our first game in a year and everyone is acting like we are finished.

Round one Richmond blitz the blues from the getgo until putting the cue in the rack prematurely with no Tiger Army to play for.

Round two, after prolonged lock down, disrupted training, potential for season to be derailed again, Richmond start sluggishly and rise to the occassion of playing the pies to fight out a draw.

Round three, yawn, we play easy beat hawks, no crowd, nothing to prove, resting our best player, why bother trying. JR looks disinterested and he is our forward leader, the rest follow.

The only way Richmond lose this year is injury or lethargy, so far lethargy is our only issue. Have to laugh at the media's hysterical over reaction, like writing JR off as too old.

Judging by round one, the lethargy is not based on Premiership hangover, rather the uncertainty and disruption of the covid restrictions. The teams trying the hardest at present are the perennial failures......Carlton, Suns, Collingwood, Port etc.

 

[Grrr]

Are we having regular scheduled scratch matches for the 2nd's or was Thursday's a one-off/occasional thing when the other Melbourne club agrees? I haven't heard much about that level, it's still as important as ever that these guys get the best chance to continue their development.

I wouldn't mind those changes at all if those coming in have been showing enough.

They have played both weeks, against Collingwood 17 per side and last week 14, so they have had solid workouts. There are some good highlights on the website, Highlights and also the chat with Xavier Clarke. They will be again playing this week it seems.

 

[Wooden Robot]

All this stuff about teams having "worked us out" and we need to "re-invent" is absolute bullsh*t.

We've had a bunch of teams the last few years use the flood space tactic against us - be it in our forward line or rolling up the ground. Hawthorn especially. They did it big time in the 2018 final. But we took our time, picked them off and worked our way through the congestion. And when the ball fell loose in our forward line if we couldn't hit a target, our rabid forward pressure either got a score for us or we held it in there for long periods. We belted them when they used the same tactics.

But last two games we've lost our system and patience, and when we've just bombed it into our forward line the pressure hasnt been there when its come to ground. We had a stack of the football on Thursday but went away from a disciplined approach and just simply didnt bring enough heat at ground level - most notably in our forward line.

It's pretty simple.
Even the best systems and tactics rely heavily on one thing, having players in-form and capable of delivering.
Our best laid plans and systems won't compensate for having players who are clearly down on form.
We are carrying passengers right now ... albeit, it's only early and easily turned around if we help them find form.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Can’t get out of my head some of riolis pathetic efforts. He laconically got the ball and then hand balled it like he was in a training drill. Couldn’t not believe what I was seeing. Some of our players seem like they have checked out mentally.

But he did lay three tackles ... and he did play well in the 2017 preliminary final