Autopsy Round 1 = Collingwood 69-102 Sydney

[Eric Shin]

THE GOOD:
•Nick has had an unreal start to the season but he's getting no help
•DC has been in great form to start the year
•Cox wasn't amazing but a bit better after last week’s showing

THE BAD:
•We look slow
•Our backline is as dysfunctional as its ever been
•Ditto our forward line
•Teams have figured us out and I'm afraid not many will fear playing us
•I used to think we had the edge with our wings but Josh and Sidey have been showed up
•Trading our first-rounder for Schultz is looking like a bad move
•Will the real Jack Crisp

25

Jack Crisp

Age

31

Ht

190cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.2

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.7

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

307.6

4star

D

17.7

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

3star

MG

307.6

4star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.0

5star

please stand up
•Lipinski’s preseason sucked everyone in

THE UGLY:
•Giving up 19 marks inside 50
•Lack of pressure, intensity and aggression
•A lot of laziness seeping in - we literally use to play with finals intensity for majority of ‘22 & ‘23
•Team defence and structure is broken
•The selection committee have been woeful
•Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers
•Our skills are literally deplorable
•Lack of young talent coming through


You can literally stick a fork in us if we don't win the next two games.


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[Maggie5]

The discussion is about effort lacking last night - and it was not the case. To even dispute CP as an effort stat is mind blowing.
We lost the game because we kept turning over the ball with poor disposal.
By 3/4 time Swans had scored 65 of the their 85 points from turnover.
That’s damning- when was the last time you saw IQ, Moore, Pendles and Sidey turnover the ball as much?

Why do you think they scored from turnovers if lack of effort wasn't a factor?

To me losing touch with an opponent, making position to give an option, chasing, tackles, assisting each other all relies on that extra/effort.

We are known for our tackles and rarely are on the losing end of the stat.

Swans ran harder, spread better and if they had kicked straighter today would be more depressing.

 

[Ugene41]

So I’ll get on my hobby horse that I’ve been on for years. wtf has the club not drafted a key forward in forever. Cloke might have been the last one. We got a flag last year with a mid sized average forward line, am I happy about that, I’m beyond happy but now we are seeing the problem with not having one and the age of our team catching up. We are the cats from last year except they had a forward line.

Finn to stay in next week.
Dean out Frampton in.
I’m his biggest fan but AJ out and I’ll say Reef but he’s not the answer. Might as well try Begg or Steene as Freddy is injured.
Titch in and leggy out. He hasn’t sighted it this year.

Not much else we can do really. Unless they pull a shock and play someone like Tj next week but that’s not flys way.

I know they’ll be vile hatred posted about AJ because there always is how about just put him as an in or out and not get personal as some do. It’s what I hate most about this board.

We need to stop trading out our first rounders first. Especially for honest battlers like Schultz.

No point trying to draft key forwards with 3rd rounders which will just net us another Ash Johnson/Krueger developmental NQR type.

 

[brysie]

Also on multiple occasions last night Howe was standing alone in no man's land, leaving Moore trying to cover ground between multiple opponents which ultimately led to Moore having no influence in multiple contests. For the life of me I don't understand why both Howe and Dean stood behind their opponent instead of beside or in front of to block their leading. In both games we have lacked leadership in defence. I wonder if multiple changes in the line coaches has contributed to a change in tactics or communication style

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This is also a selection issue. Frampton should be brought in to mark King next Thursday, Dean to play a lockdown role also, with Howe and Moore having licence to play 3rd man up.

Alternatively, Frampton, Moore and Dean could play as the 3 talls with Maynard asked to cover Moore when required, allowing Howe to play forward. In his short time forward last night Howe looked infinitely more dangerous than Johnson and provided an outlet for our players exiting our defensive 50.

 

[danielnajdek]

It’s hard to be angry at the guys after what they did last year. You can be disappointed but I don’t really feel anger. Looks to me like a few have got that premiership success and have dropped off a fair bit. Can they get it back? I’m not sure. I feel a bit for Nick. He has been superb the first 2 games while having no team mates helping him out.

 

[Maggie5]

THE GOOD:
•Nick has had an unreal start to the season but he's getting no help
•DC has been in great form to start the year
•Cox wasn't amazing but a bit better after last week’s showing

THE BAD:
•We look slow
•Our backline is as dysfunctional as its ever been
•Ditto our forward line
•Teams have figured us out and I'm afraid not many will fear playing us
•I used to think we had the edge with our wings but Josh and Sidey have been showed up
•Trading our first-rounder for Schultz is looking like a bad move
•Will the real Jack Crisp please stand up
•Lipinski’s preseason sucked everyone in

THE UGLY:
•Giving up 19 marks inside 50
•Lack of pressure, intensity and aggression
•A lot of laziness seeping in - we literally use to play with finals intensity for majority of ‘22 & ‘23
•Team defence and structure is broken
•The selection committee have been woeful
•Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers
•Our skills are literally deplorable
•Lack of young talent coming through


You can literally stick a fork in us if we don't win the next two games.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Maynard has been very good also.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

It’s hard to be angry at the guys after what they did last year. You can be disappointed but I don’t really feel anger.

I feel the same. No anger because this group provided us with so much joy and happiness.

A bit frustrating we've been slow out of the blocks this year. I'm hoping it's temporary and we find our way into the season.

 

[Ugene41]

THE GOOD:
•Nick has had an unreal start to the season but he's getting no help
•DC has been in great form to start the year
•Cox wasn't amazing but a bit better after last week’s showing

THE BAD:
•We look slow
•Our backline is as dysfunctional as its ever been
•Ditto our forward line
•Teams have figured us out and I'm afraid not many will fear playing us
•I used to think we had the edge with out wings but Josh and Sidey have been showed up
•Trading our first-rounder for Schultz is looking like a bad move
•Will the real Jack Crisp please stand up
•Lipinski preseason sucked everyone in

THE UGLY:
•Giving up 19 marks inside 50
•Lack of pressure, intensity and aggression
•A lot of laziness seeping in - we literally use to play with finals intensity for majority of ‘22 & ‘23
•Team defence and structure is broken
•The selection committee have been woeful
•Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers
•Our skills are literally deplorable
•Lack of young talent coming through


You can literally stick a fork in us if we don't win the next two games.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Lipinski as a slow cumbersome linkman in the midfield is a problem. Not like he has precision kicking and decision making like Pendles. Need to give his midfield minutes to Crisp to give us more dash and power.

Now is the time to give opportunities to young players like Macrae and Reef who have been knocking the door down in the VFL last year. And rotate opportunities for the likes of Allan, Harrison, Demattia etc so at least there's some sort of freshness and excitement in the team.

Should've kept our first rounder and Ginnivan. Ginnivan would've at least given us some excitement and energy instead of Schultz who just battles like a slightly taller Jarryd Blair

 

[Doc1763]

Way too early to be criticising the Schultz trade. He is playing in a position that really needs better ball movement from defense to offence than is happening now. Hill isn't exactly on fire either.

The way we played last year, Schultz would have been a massive upgrade on Ginni.

 

[BigVic]

1952 Geelong premiers, 1953 Collingwood Premiers, 1954 Collingwood missed the finals
2022 Geelong premiers 2023 Collingwood premiers, 2024 Collingwood missed the finals

 

[No SPIN]

Why do you think they scored from turnovers if lack of effort wasn't a factor?

To me losing touch with an opponent, making position to give an option, chasing, tackles, assisting each other all relies on that extra/effort.

We are known for our tackles and rarely are on the losing end of the stat.

Swans ran harder, spread better and if they had kicked straighter today would be more depressing.

Third quarter - game was there to be won ( commentators making the point our pressure impacting Swans) Then:
Moore’s bad kick - McDonald marks - Goal.

Crisp fails to break a tackle in defence - Goal

Pendles Turnover - swans kick to McDonald who marks on the goal line - Goal.

IQ errant kick - Swans recover kick to Warner who goals.

I think effort was not the issue in our loss.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

1952 Geelong premiers, 1953 Collingwood Premiers, 1954 Collingwood missed the finals
2022 Geelong premiers 2023 Collingwood premiers, 2024 Collingwood missed the finals

Does this mean we're winning it again in 2028

 

[Eric Shin]

Maynard has been very good also.

I agree

Considering he had a delayed start to the preseason also, he's been great.


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[Roverjg]

How is it mind blowing? There’s more to effort than just winning the ball. There’s uncontested running such as spread from the contest, defensive running as well as leading to provide an option or create space. I saw Sydney do that time and again last night, less so us.

Many of the turnovers arose from not having an option down the field due to our inability to spread from the contest. Others were simply the result of Sydney’s pressure, which McRae in his press conference admitted overwhelmed us at times.

12 of the Swans 15 goals originated from turnovers

 

[Jafo]

Way too early to be criticising the Schultz trade. He is playing in a position that really needs better ball movement from defense to offence than is happening now. Hill isn't exactly on fire either.

The way we played last year, Schultz would have been a massive upgrade on Ginni.

Can only hope Schultz ends up an essential like Mayne in the end.

Remember when we first got Mayne? Couldn’t kick over 30 shooting at goal at times.

We sh1t canned him and then he was an essential by 2018 GF.

Fingers crossed.

 

[jathanas]

True. But there are also concerns. You can't deny that.

It's not either/or.

We've played sh*t footy. No sugarcoating it.

 

[Captivating]

Yes great post.

It seems though clubs feel they can go back to back. It’s unusual we had Hawthorn and Richmond do it over the last decade, but clubs tend to go for it.

With our age profile, we should be bringing through more kids. We are premiers, so the club would have credits. Not sure how many of us expect to go back to back.

What did Richmond and Hawthorn have in common?

Maybe you need to have an angry coach to go back-to-back.

Nice coaches can win one but can't stop the players being playboys the next year. But an angry coach.....

 

[Maggie5]

Third quarter - game was there to be won ( commentators making the point our pressure impacting Swans) Then:
Moore’s bad kick - McDonald marks - Goal.

Crisp fails to break a tackle in defence - Goal

Pendles Turnover - swans kick to McDonald who marks on the goal line - Goal.

IQ errant kick - Swans recover kick to Warner who goals.

Isolated incidents don't balance out lack effort and urgency before and after those incidents.

I think effort was not they issue in our loss.

I think what I and others are saying it was part of the problem.

Perceived or real pressure from opposition sometimes requires that extra effort and it wasn't there with some players no matter how many incidents you want to highlight.

Two examples stick out more than most:

• Moving the ball down the wing from defensive 50, one of our players was forced to make a short 20m kick to a small because Johnson didn’t fold in behind that small to allow the longer kick where. The longer kick was the preferred option as the more likely result would’ve been a stoppage forward of the wing if Johnson didn’t mark it
• Howe trailing his man into a marking contest, giving up the ghost and staying down while his man was allowed to jump at the ball and, from memory, didn’t mark it only because a teammate spoilt him. Another similar thing happened in the first quarter where both Dean and Howe trailed their opponent in then assumed that the other would jump to spoil.

One sticks on in my mind. Moore had one Swan in front of him and one behind (about 10 metres each), no other Pie near him.

He decides to match up with the one in front and the ball is kicked over his head to the other who then goals. Think it may have been 2nd quarter.

How does this happen, where was the assistance?

 

[cwoodgal]

What did Richmond and Hawthorn have in common?

Maybe you need to have an angry coach to go back-to-back.

Nice coaches can win one but can't stop the players being playboys the next year. But an angry coach.....

Yeah this. Fly isn’t a Hardwick or Clarkson. Love fly with all my heart but I wish he had a more angry\ no nonsense approach at times. Kinda makes me miss Malthouse


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[BigVic]

2004 we lost our first 9 games on the back of a big grand final loss. Our first win since the 2003 Prelim came in Round 10 2004 vs North Melbourne. Now that's a real hangover.

 

[partypie]

We can steady the ship. This obviously isn’t our brand.

That said geeze supporters can be fickle. Since 2018 our results have been
18- lost gf by a kick
19- lost prelim by a kick
20- lost semi (well beaten)
21- 2nd last
22- lost prelim by a kick
23- won the big dance

That’s an amazing record any way you put it. We’ve all known there’s a small cliff coming with our ageing list like Geel. Like Geel we snagged that flag before it came.

The issues we’ve all discussed on here and been aware of for some time is the lack of first round draft talent to replace those ageing stars. Through high finished or terrible trading we haven’t had access to top talent other than nick in some time.

At some point that’s going to catch up with us. Teams have highs and lows, no team stays up forever.

We won our flag. There’s plenty of time left in this season to right the ship, but this team is not a dynasty team, and we’ve all known this.

The real problem is that record sets some expectations in terms of consistency of effort.

These first two games of the year have been lacking effort and wholly uncompetitive for significant parts of the game.

Despite how well we're playing or how well the opposition is playing effort should be the one absolute non-negotiable every time we step out on the field.

 

[JLC]

Yeah this. Fly isn’t a Hardwick or Clarkson. Love fly with all my heart but I wish he had a more angry\ no nonsense approach at times. Kinda makes me miss Malthouse


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Fly is a clear thinker.

I think he will be ruthless as he is a winner and winning comes ahead of everything - dropping Noble last season is ruthless. Moving on Ginni was ruthless.

I don’t miss MM at all. Fly is the man.

 

[Tadpole]

Does this mean we're winning it again in 2028

I could stomach an off year just about if that happened.

 

[OniAu]

Yeah this. Fly isn’t a Hardwick or Clarkson. Love fly with all my heart but I wish he had a more angry\ no nonsense approach at times. Kinda makes me miss Malthouse


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Thats an absurd take for a coach that has got us to a prelim and a flag on the back of the biggest disaster off season in 2020 and 2021

 

[migz]

All the players looking slow, panicky etc is a side effect of low confidence and big leads getting put on them which is forcing them into rushed plays, causing turn overs.

Our team structure is the main issue and we're losing it in the midfield. It may not look that way because of how bad the back and forward lines look but if we fix the midfield connection, then these 2 facets of the game improve instantly.

I was watching from the ground and it was obvious we were lacking inside/defensive mids to help stick some proper tackles and provide an outlet into the corridor.

Need to drop atleast 1 or 2 of the small forwards for titch and macrae.